Parasound Volume Pot part two

[RichB]

I never said your opinion was invalid.

I'm just expressing my opinion on the subject - that I think when level matched, the difference is very subtle and mostly insignificant, certainly not worth a thousand dollar or more.

If your experience shows that even when level matched the difference is astronomical and shocking, then that is your opinion.

We are all just expressing opinions. Nothing more.

Two problems with this post.

First, I never said "astronomical and shocking", I said significant. What is significant to me may be insignificant to you.

Second, this post implies what you post is fact and what I post is opinion.
When in fact, both are valid experiences and both are opinions.

- Rich

 

[PENG]

When in fact, both are valid experiences and both are opinions.

- Rich

That's a fair point.

 

[sharkman]

What is disconcerting is that the OP bought 2 different P5s (1 silver, 1 black) from 2 different dealers (1 dealer was Audio Advisor) at about 6 months apart.

Yet, both P5s had the same exact noise problem.

Exactly. Either Parasound is making faulty units or something else is at play. So I did some searching on google. I can't find one mention of noisy volume anywhere, save for EMatthews. Is it possible that he got 2 bad units in a row, 6 months apart? Is it possible that something else is at play?

 

[TLS Guy]

Exactly. Either Parasound is making faulty units or something else is at play. So I did some searching on google. I can't find one mention of noisy volume anywhere, save for EMatthews. Is it possible that he got 2 bad units in a row, 6 months apart? Is it possible that something else is at play?

It could be the owners are not bothered by it. This sound will only happen on changing volume, and I suspect is at an extremely low level. So, my guess is they probably all, or will do it, but the owners are prepared to brush it off as being a very minor annoyance.

 

[PENG]

So, my guess is they probably all, or will do it, but the owners are prepared to brush it off as being a very minor annoyance.

I guess you are right, and I think the motor is likely the source of the noise.

 

[TLS Guy]

I guess you are right, and I think the motor is likely the source of the noise.

Probably not. See my earlier post. Ganged pots are no longer available. So to make an analog volume control circuit, you have to make one mono pot adjust the volume of more than one channel. A common way to do that is to vary the control voltage to the opamp chips. This way one pot can control as many channels as you want. However these circuits are very prone to be noisy as the volume is adjusted.

 

[PENG]

Probably not. See my earlier post. Ganged pots are no longer available. So to make an analog volume control circuit, you have to make one mono pot adjust the volume of more than one channel. A common way to do that is to vary the control voltage to the opamp chips. This way one pot can control as many channels as you want. However these circuits are very prone to be noisy as the volume is adjusted.

I did read your post about the ganged pots but he apparently (though not definitely) he got the noise only when using the remote to change volume. See his post#14 and slipperybidness post#20. I think in trying to keep cost down they probably haven't been paying too much attention to the external noise immunity side of things.

 

[sharkman]

It could be the owners are not bothered by it. This sound will only happen on changing volume, and I suspect is at an extremely low level. So, my guess is they probably all, or will do it, but the owners are prepared to brush it off as being a very minor annoyance.

But again, nobody, and I mean nobody, is even commenting on it on line. A person spends 1100 for a brand new pre amp, and it has a volume noise, and they "are not bothered by it"? I just don't see that. People would be annoyed by it and want to do something about it. Remember, these are audiophiles for the most part, a group of considerably fussy people. And Ematthews, a newcomer to higher end audio, is the only one to mention anything about it? In my humble opinion, that doesn't add up.

Apparently we will agree to disagree on this one.

 

[Ace Deprave]

I am now having the same issue (searched google, found this thread) with my P5 that I purchased new in August. Has the issue been resolved (the 2nd attempt), or has the OP given up? It is definitely annoying to have a relatively new piece of equipment exhibit this issue.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I am now having the same issue (searched google, found this thread) with my P5 that I purchased new in August. Has the issue been resolved (the 2nd attempt), or has the OP given up? It is definitely annoying to have a relatively new piece of equipment exhibit this issue.

I don't think it's resolved yet.

But with 3 P5s having the exact symptom, I think this is probably the "norm" for this product and some people aren't bothered as much by it and have not complained on forums.

 

[slipperybidness]

I am now having the same issue (searched google, found this thread) with my P5 that I purchased new in August. Has the issue been resolved (the 2nd attempt), or has the OP given up? It is definitely annoying to have a relatively new piece of equipment exhibit this issue.

I say that officially, "the plot thickens"

 

[RichB]

I say that officially, "the plot thickens"

Don't you mean "the pot thickens"

- Rich

 

[slipperybidness]

Don't you mean "the pot thickens"

- Rich

Hey, are you in Colorado

Yes, the "pot thickens" would be more appropriate.

 

[Ace Deprave]

I don't think it's resolved yet.

But with 3 P5s having the exact symptom, I think this is probably the "norm" for this product and some people aren't bothered as much by it and have not complained on forums.

I know of one other person who has one, I'm going to shoot him a PM on avs to see if he has heard the same thing.

 

[highfigh]

If using the remote control is the only way to get it to produce this sound, it would strike me as likely that the IR control chip and/or associated circuitry are leaky. It's also possible that the manufacturer of this chip has made a change or farmed production out to someone else and these new ones are problematic. I'll be calling Parasound's tech support department on Monday, so I'll ask if they have any new info.

Also, I never saw the original thread- does this noise occur with all sources, or just some of them? What is the level setting? Are you using some kind of surge filter, or is it straight into the wall?

 

[slipperybidness]

What's the story? It was repaired? What did the dealer say about 2 of the same failures?

 

[highfigh]

See, everyone should just buy either an AVR or a pre-pro.

Maybe, but most AVRs don't come with pre-out until the price is fairly close to what this costs and even if someone needs HDMI switching, a dedicated switch isn't terribly expensive. The economy of scale makes AVRs into the "bargain" they are, but some brands have had recurring HDMI board failures, amplifier problems, etc and NONE of the AVRs comes with a really decent phono section unless its really expensive.

If it made sense for the manufacturer, I'd like to see modular construction, the way TOA makes their commercial amplifiers. They have a selection of input modules and input bays on the chassis of a preamp, so one channel can have an RCA jack, another can have an Amphenol round mic connector, coax, XLR, screw-downs for balanced/unbalanced, etc.

It wouldn't need to be so many options that it's unworkable, either-

Stereo line in, unbalanced
Stereo line in, balanced
Stereo Phono in, MM/MC with resistance switch (if outboard phono preamps can be small,....)
Stereo Pre Out, unbalanced
Stereo Pre Out, balanced
Tape in/Rec Out
Processor loop

If someone

 

[slipperybidness]

Maybe, but most AVRs don't come with pre-out until the price is fairly close to what this costs and even if someone needs HDMI switching, a dedicated switch isn't terribly expensive. The economy of scale makes AVRs into the "bargain" they are, but some brands have had recurring HDMI board failures, amplifier problems, etc and NONE of the AVRs comes with a really decent phono section unless its really expensive.

If it made sense for the manufacturer, I'd like to see modular construction, the way TOA makes their commercial amplifiers. They have a selection of input modules and input bays on the chassis of a preamp, so one channel can have an RCA jack, another can have an Amphenol round mic connector, coax, XLR, screw-downs for balanced/unbalanced, etc.

It wouldn't need to be so many options that it's unworkable, either-

Stereo line in, unbalanced
Stereo line in, balanced
Stereo Phono in, MM/MC with resistance switch (if outboard phono preamps can be small,....)
Stereo Pre Out, unbalanced
Stereo Pre Out, balanced
Tape in/Rec Out
Processor loop

If someone

NAD does this.

The problem is, the NAD cards are freaking expensive!!! It kind of ruins the whole value-added idea.

 

[highfigh]

I was looking at the integrated amps/preamps that my distributors offer- unless it's an AV pre-pro, the number of inputs is really weak. Yamaha, Marantz, Denon, Onkyo, Pioneer- none offers enough to be useful to someone who uses a lot of different sources, IMO. And, if the piece does have everything, it's very expensive. Denon and Marantz both have preamp/processors over $5K. That's almost high-end territory.

 

[highfigh]

Mark- I don't know if you're referring to 'ganged pots' as anything more than one tracer and wiper, but they are available in at least two tracer/wiper and are used extensively in many applications. I haven't seen the kind used in my old Sony Audio Lab integrated amp, though. That was Alps and had wipers for each source- you can see the VC at the bottom, in the link below. The piece behind has nothing to do with the original and is an add-on.

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/5033/frankenamp.jpg

To the OP- I called Parasound this morning and Tech Support said the volume control adjusts analog audio, not a control voltage. We discussed the problem and he told me they have various brands/models of equipment, including some very sensitive speakers, so they can test under many conditions that would be impossible without it. Also, he mentioned that the time between design/beta testing and getting approval from all of the various countries/continental agencies can be long enough for changes to occur with, or without, Parasound's knowledge or approval. If Alps decided to discontinue the original VC and use the new version without telling anyone, these problems can happen even when the VC performs identically in all other ways. Could just be different shielding on the motor.

If this occurs when the VC is adjusted manually, I would say it's a different issue.

I didn't see any mention of which source was being used when this occurs, whether it occurs when you manually adjust the level or where the VC marker is positioned. Can you address these? Thanks.