Need Guidance buying 5.1 HT Spkrs & Receiver

[KEW]

One more thought. You can skip the center and add it later if you think you need it. I have never used a center and haven't missed it. But maybe I just don't know no better!
Just another way to shift more money to the mains and receiver.

 

[KEW]

Okay, I read again and see you mean all 4 corners (which is not really where the surrounds belong, but work with what you have).

Nonetheless, there are larger speakers that can be wall mounted. The HTD 3 is one of them.

 

[Clay Bertrand]

You guys are great!!!

I've been researching and budget adjusting all evening and failed to see your so spot on responses!!!

I Have UPPED my budget to $2000 or so now. I gotta keep it around there minus the mount costs.

Zieglj, those Definitive 450s look really smokin especially that price!!!! It looks like they CAN be mounted?? but the mesh has to be poked thru to get to the mounting holes??????? I can actually pick those up in person really close to my house and office at will call!! Avoiding shipping BUT ITS 9% SALES TAX!! Still a very good deal from what I read. I End up paying $273 out the door for the pair!! Is something wrong with them??Seems like an amazing price!!..... same as HTD LEVEL 3s Anniversary Sale Price (roughly)

BIG QUESTION: HOW DO THE 450s COMPARE WITH ASCEND 170s AND HTD LEVEL 3s I HAVE BEEN CONSIDERING???? AND WOULD YOU MOUNT ANY OF THEM 8 ft UP with their weight??

I'm with you on the bigger bookshelf style speakers. So I have been looking to get them for fronts. Since you own them Zieglj, what is your opinion of the 450s?? What would YOU buy for fronts with a $2000 budget?? I'd LOVE to be able to afford Sierras or even 340s from Ascend. But they look a little too pricey. I have also priced out the 170s which look to be more my price range. Although I'd prefer matching speakers, with the 450s I COULD live with the speakers simply all being black in terms of "matching" if the quality of the 450s is better. What do you think of the three?? How would you rank them? (I am really on the fence---was looking at the HTDs hard tho) the 450s got my attention.....

That HTD Sale and no taxes is a plus for them if I can use the savings possibly jump up to a bigger HSU Sub along with either a New Denon X2000 or a X1100 (for the same price roughly). Ascend seems to be a little more expensive and almost out of my range entirely (especially if I wanted to get a bigger sub and stay within budget)

I am pretty set on getting a new Denon AVR. That's gonna run $540 w/tax etc. So the Speaker Sub budget is ABOUT $1460.

That said, Would you feel that getting the HTD level 3s and 2s all the way around would be a worthy "sacrifice" in order to get the VTF-15H sub from HSU?? Is a bigger sub not worth much?? Would you get the 450s ahead of the other options??

I'm really stoked with all your knowledge and help. You totally get what I'm going for! Sorry for being so redundant in my questions for you.

I am really curious to see how you rank the 450s with the Ascends and HTDs.

I will post my price breakdowns if I can for your review!! I'd like to see what you guys think.

THANKS !!

 

[Clay Bertrand]

Hey KEW, I somehow missed the page 2 and your last two comments.

I have to say, your earlier post was literally the most concise explanation that I have seen of the FLAVORS of Audyessy and extremely helpful. I've been falling in love with some of these speakers and crunching the budgetary numbers to allow for MultEQ XT 32 has had me trying to sacrifice where I really didn't want to. I know now that I don't really need the higher FLAVES but the AVRs I am looking at have it anyway. Bonus I suppose??

****BUT I AM going to up my budget to $2000 or so not including mounts and wiring!!! I figure it is worth it to be able to grab everything at one time and get a pretty respectable set up. I can also possibly afford some better stuff. I'm gonna go with a new Denon AVR X2000 or X1100 with will run about $540. Still leaves some extra to throw around perhaps though.

As for the center speaker, I'd like to have as much front sound as I can because I also have a stair case that will be almost kinda impeding the right front speaker. I will post a pic when allowed. One of the reasons I am mounting so high is the staircase issue but I hope to be able to mount and angle the speaker and calibrate it to work around the imperfect situation as much as possible. I think having the center could help patch over that situation a little maybe. Would you think a center would help in this case??

 

[Clay Bertrand]

Just to further clarify my position and give a little reasoning for it, here is my mindset:

Although I am willing to wait to properly research everything thoroughly and take my time doing so, I am pretty anxious to get all the speakers and receiver installed at once and I'd like to have them matching more or less (not set in stone). This speaker set up and new tv are the final finishing touches to my main living room after porcelain floors and window coverings etc. With tons of other work being done and furniture being stored there, I haven't been able to use the room for over a year now. My house as was a bit of a fixer upper. To add to the misery, my old 32" LCD TV crapped out in May and I have held off on buying any new AV stuff until I had the room finished and ready to enjoy. So woe is my technology level at the present time, and I am getting antsy to change that right quick!!

As for matching brands, unless I can’t resist the Distinctive 450s based on Zieglj's experience, I really kinda would PREFER to have matching front and rears for aesthetics. The best way to match seemlessly is with the same brand. Not the WORST type of compromise to make. I have an openish floor plan with the living room portion 20'x25' and 2 plus story slanted open ceiling (--YIKES--major major Cubic Acoustic killing Feet ). Speakers are my version of DECORATING!!! lol But I'm not married to the SAME BRAND deal if quality would be better otherwise so long as the look isnt too objectionable.

I'd prefer not to buy in pieces though it may make more sense for some reasons. At this point, I don't mind spending a lil more to get it all done when I have the (paid) help here to mount the speakers at and tv and everything at once in case we have to move a plug or rewire etc. Because of the room layout and prewiring, I intend to mount ALL of the speakers including the front center at a height around 7-8 feet so the professional assistance I will have still working here can do it right. I am somewhat concerned with mounting 20-25 lb speakers at that or any height for that matter. I would expect that so long as the MOUNTS are rated for the weight and the speakers are designed to be mounted, as long as done RIGHT--to a stud and lagged right etc. it should be no problem. Mounting a TV is more weight after all and that is done a lot.

So that's where I'm coming from in my product search and it may give you a little more context to my intentions.

 

[Clay Bertrand]

Aside from the Definitive 450s, that Zieglj owns that I am very interested in, I did full price comparison breakdowns on the 5.1 configurations within, and even further stretching my already stretched $2000 budget range. I did go over the limit on some of the options. I compared various all one brand speaker configurations of Ascends and HTDs. HTDs prices were calculated using their 10% off discount they will presumably offer later this month for their sale. I included all of my local taxes and shipping where applicable. I can’t post links so I am posting as regular text. I used the same Denon AVR X1100 but if I could find a new X2000 they are the same price. I also used the same HSU VTF2-MK4 Subs in each comparison. I noted the additional cost for the bigger sub option and listed the total price for each "package" in bold.

What do you guys think of these options and how would you tweak them?? What is the best value and the least waste in your opinions??


Ascend Option 1

2 – 170s Front

1—200s Center

2—200s Rear

1HSU—VTF 2 MK4 1000W Sub ** Add $247.32 for 1400W Hsu Sub VTF 15H

Denon AVR X1100W

$1790.64


Ascend Option 2

2 – 170s Front

1—340 Center

2—200s Rear

1HSU—1000W Sub ** Add $247.32 for 1400W Hsu Sub

Denon AVR X1100W

$1941.84


Ascend Option 3

2 – 340s Front

1—200s Center

2—200s Rear

1HSU—1000W Sub ** Add $247.32 for 1400W Hsu Sub

Denon AVR X1100W

$2006.64


Ascend Option 4

2 – 340s Front

1—340C Center

2—200s Rear

1HSU—1000W Sub ** Add $247.32 for 1400W Hsu Sub

Denon AVR X1100W

$2157.84


HTD Option 1

2 – Level 3s Front

1 – Level 3c Center

2—Level 2s Rear

1HSU—1000W Sub ** Add $247.32 for 1400W Hsu Sub

Denon AVR X1100W

$1797.30 ($1878.30 for Fancy wood)


HTD Option 2

2 – Level 3s Front

1 – Level 3c Center

2—Level 3s Rear

1HSU—1000W Sub ** Add $247.32 for 1400W Hsu Sub

Denon AVR X1100W

$1887.30 ($1968.30 for Fancy Wood)



Curious to see what you guys think.

 

[psbfan9]

I don't know if Zieg has owned the SM450's, but I have. You can see my cat guarding them in my avatar picture. I use them as surrounds now. I had them up front with an all Deftech set up and they performed well. I would recommend them. Especially at the price listed on Newegg (which is where I bought mine). They're not seconds or anything like that. They are new speakers being sold as closeouts because of new models arriving.
I would never second guess Zieg or KEW, I didn't realize how big a room you had. The set ups you listed look good, but I defer to others who have actually heard those particular speakers.
As I said on page one, go for the Sierra 1's if you want Ascends. The SM450's are also recommended. Finding a center for the 450's may be problematic though. I'll look around and see what I can find for you if you go the Deftech route.

http://www.ascendacoustics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=9SRM1NT2BS&Category_Code=BSTOCK

KEW was right about Amazon's schizophrenic pricing. The Denon X2000 went up $50.00 in one day.

http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVR-X2000-Integrated-Discontinued-Manufacturer/dp/B00CALM2KS

At $678.00 for the 1's and $499 for the AVR you're at $1177.00 ( I suck at math but it's close) Still leaves plenty of room for a sub.

 

[psbfan9]

Hm ... Having re read your first post. I'm going to go in yet another direction.

You can get 2 pair of the SM450's. That will give you the front L/R and Surrounds. Add the CS 8040 center and your damn near done. That would put you at about $1098.98. (excluding tax and coupon codes).

If you choose to use Paypal, you can get no interest and no payments for 6 months.

Center; http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA2GA0V84754

 

[zieglj01]

I don't know if Zieg has owned the SM450's, but I have.

I have owned the 350 - however, if going with Definitive - I would buy the 450,
because of the good deal and more mid bass punch.

 

[zieglj01]

Zieglj, those Definitive 450s look really smokin especially that price!!!! It looks like they CAN be mounted?? but the mesh has to be poked thru to get to the mounting holes??????? I can actually pick those up in person really close to my house and office at will call!! Avoiding shipping BUT ITS 9% SALES TAX!! Still a very good deal from what I read. I End up paying $273 out the door for the pair!! Is something wrong with them??Seems like an amazing price!!..... same as HTD LEVEL 3s Anniversary Sale Price (roughly)

BIG QUESTION: HOW DO THE 450s COMPARE WITH HTD LEVEL 3s I HAVE BEEN CONSIDERING???? AND WOULD YOU MOUNT ANY OF THEM 8 ft UP with their weight??

I have owned the 350 - do not own them anymore - however, the older SM series
are nice and not easy to trump at their current prices.

The 350 and 450 are their former series - however still, they seem to be making
some for Newegg, for mass market high volume sales.

It would not hurt to try a pair, since you are close by - and tax is part of life.

However for me, I think that I would go with HTD - and I have owned them.

My Ascend recommendation was based on word of mouth - from trusted ears.

Now as far as mounts - you need to have something to cover the weight, a lot
of people mount speakers.

One way to mount is with VideoSecu clamping mounts - However 8 feet is a
little high for me - if I mounted, I would like something around 6 ft.
http://www.amazon.com/VideoSecu-Clamping-Mounting-Surrounding-MS56B/dp/B000X9O8SI/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

 

[Clay Bertrand]

Hey guys, thanks again.

Psbfan9, yeah my room set up is fairly large, very high and open, and I have some prewiring and a staircase to try to work/contend with. Not the IDEAL set up for a perfect HT, but all things considered, I think with the help and expert guidance of you all, its gonna be killer.

Had I not come here, I'd be sitting around wondering why the ALL IN ONE BOX system I spent $1500 on sounds like doo-doo.

You guys have me on the right track and I'm learning good things here. (all learning is good right???!!)

All of the advice I have been given here has been pure gold!!

And I ain't just blowin Sunshine you guys' way!!

You know your SHIZZLE here!!!

 

[Clay Bertrand]

Zieglj,

Thanks for the inside info on the 450s. I really wanted to hear your take before I went further in my planning.

Regarding the Ascends, they do look to be a really first class high end outfit. Their products are really probably more toward the higher end than HTD being that the 170s are sort of the "lower end" (for lack of a more accurate term) of their product line and they are supposed to be great and some would say better than the HTD Level 3s. I would only expect the Ascend 340s and Sierras to be virtually ALL WORLD!!!

But Alas, their prices are just a little bit out of my stretched budget (especially those Dream Sierras!!).

Though I have not heard a HTD product myself or heard much about them prior to you guys here mentioning them, they seem to be a very good quality speaker and the prices are very good as well particularly with their sale.

SO, I am thinking of taking your advice and going with the HTDs along with a Denon AVR and a HSU Sub (I have a scheduled demo for next week at Dr. Hsu's lab!!!!).

I'll probably grab the mounts suggested as well.

****NOTE TO ALL: I have heard/read that the Denon AVR 1100W was $200 OFF at Best Buy's Pre Holiday sale. That receiver with the MultEQ XT 32 for THAT price (roughly $300 NEW!!) makes me KICK MYSELF for not paying attention to those sales!!!! AMAZON's Schizo Pricing Shifts be Damned!!!!

 

[Clay Bertrand]

Since it appears I have posted the requisite 10 posts to deactiviate the SPAM SHIELD, I will attempt to post some pictures of my ODDBALL room so that you guys can see what I'm dealing with. The floorplan is really cool but NOT IDEAL for a perfect HT with such CAVERNOUS upward space and overall openness.

This is why I have been following Zieglj's taste for BIG SPEAKERS. I think its necessary with this space.

Here are the pics Descriptions per Numbered image:

457- Main Center listening position and view of TV mount. Left front mounting position is where the speaker wire is dangling (not the white coax) to the far upper left side of the pic.

458- View Turning Right/Clockwise-Staircase and Right Front Mounting Position is the Speaker wire seen in the far upper right just above the grandfather clock.

459- View of right side--The Open Floor Plan View continuing Clockwise

461- Continues View of Right Side and View of Right Rear Mounting position. Right Rear speaker wire is near the white valance over the blinds.

464- Continuing Clockwise this shows the rear center and the Left rear mounting position which is behind the Plant/Tree. Rear left speaker will stick out and not be blocked by the plant.

466- This shows the front right mounting position in relation to the Stair case that is blocking it from the rest of the room. I hope to mount and angle the front right to make it work as well as possible. Also, this view shows the ceiling height and structure. Very Cavernous unfortunately....

I hope the images come thru for you guys to see the room I am working with. I tried to post them via the file upload function.

 

[Clay Bertrand]

BITCHEN it worked!!

Any additional input you guys might have now with a better perspective on the room would be awesome.

Thanks for all of your help!!!!

 

[Clay Bertrand]

Based on Zieglj's personal experience, guidance and taste for the bigger speakers (which I share/agree with especially in the large room), I am leaning very very strongly toward going with the HTDs. The little bit lower price due to the lack of sales tax, cheap shipping, and the 10% off sale seems to be a good deal for the quality of the speakers they produce.

Side Note: I don't mean to gripe about taxes. I realize we gotta have taxes and pay them to cover infrastructure, bombs, welfare, Air Force 1 etc. As Zieglj so eloquently put it, "Tax is part of Life". I also realize I live in an expensive State, County, City etc. But just as Tax is part of life, AVOIDANCE of Tax is the flip side of that coin. Internet purchasing allows for Taxes to be non existent in many transactions and when you are talking about 8-10% of a large dollar (IMO) purchase, Tax savings can play a big part in maintaining a budget and stretching the dollar. Here the next City over can have a 1-4% sales tax difference!! Also California has different pricing zones for many retailers to deal with variances in commercial rent etc. In the Bay Area, you can buy an item at Target and the Target the next town over is 35% more money for the same item. I had to return some things to Target in NorCal and saw it first hand. A $19.99 toy at the one Target was $28 and change!!!! Always look out for yourselves guys!!

Anyway, the tax savings was a bit of a factor for me. Enough said.

So since I have narrowed my decisions to the HTD options, now that you guys have been able to see the actual room I am trying to outfit:
What do you guys think of my available options?? Reposted for your review:

HTD Option 1

2 – Level 3s Front

1 – Level 3c Center

2—Level 2s Rear

1HSU—1000W Sub ** Add $247.32 for Bigger VT-15H 1400W Hsu Sub

Denon AVR X1100W

$1797.30 ($1878.30 for Fancy wood)


HTD Option 2

2 – Level 3s Front

1 – Level 3c Center

2—Level 3s Rear

1HSU—1000W Sub ** Add $247.32 for Bigger VT-15H 1400W Hsu Sub

Denon AVR X1100W

$1887.30 ($1968.30 for Fancy Wood)

The "Fancy Wood" (which is really nice looking) additional costs aside.....

Questions:


1.) Would you guys favor the bigger speakers ALL AROUND (i.e. 5 Level 3s including the Center) because of the room size or do you think it would be overkill and the Level 2s for the rears are a better fit??? (I do like me some OVERKILL.....)

2.) Would you guys think that increasing the Sub to the VT-15H with a little of the money saved by going with HTD over the Ascends would be something to strongly consider?

Here are the 2 Subs I'm considering:

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-2mk4.html

or upgrade to http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-15h.html


***COOL***HTD says they will honor their 10% Off sale price even for a purchase in advance of their sale if I order over the phone. (They don't want the discount code leaking early so they wouldn't give it to me.....party poopers!!)--Sale Starts January 24th!!!
***ALSO COOL***HSU will let me come by for a visit and demo next week!!!! (only wish I wasn't such a newbie with such a small budget....)

What do you guys think??? I'm really anxious to see your opinions!!!!

Thanks as always guys!!! Gracias, Danke....and ALL THAT!!!!

 

[KEW]

****NOTE TO ALL: I have heard/read that the Denon AVR 1100W was $200 OFF at Best Buy's Pre Holiday sale. That receiver with the MultEQ XT 32 for THAT price (roughly $300 NEW!!) makes me KICK MYSELF for not paying attention to those sales!!!! AMAZON's Schizo Pricing Shifts be Damned!!!!

If it says somewhere XT 32, that is a typo. XT 32 is only available on the Denon 4000 series, up.
The 1100W has MultEQ XT.

 

[KEW]

BITCHEN it worked!!

Any additional input you guys might have now with a better perspective on the room would be awesome.

Thanks for all of your help!!!!

I agree, love the openess, but not ideal for audio. Still, good speakers are good speakers and properly setup, the main issue will be the bass will never pressurize the room, but you will still be good for music. I am in the same situation, not quite as big and open as yours, but too big and too open. I feel like I get solid bass, but my guts don't get churned when a dinosaur stomps!

 

[KEW]

Can see the wire for the left speaker, but I did not see exactly where the speaker wire/terminal is under the stairs. I am assuming the boxes are for AC and HDMI for the TV.
Oh, I see, it is way the heck on the other side!

 

[zieglj01]

What do you guys think??? I'm really anxious to see your opinions!!!!

If going/picking the Level Two for surrounds, would allow you to get the bigger sub.
Then that would be my preference. Most of the info/sound goes to the front speakers
and the subwoofer - so that should be the focus.

 

[Clay Bertrand]

KEW,

Yeah, I rechecked and some review comp chart had the 32 wrongly listed w the X1100. I see this after checking true sources. My bad. As you said in a earlier post, pretty much anything above 2EQ will do. I wanted a little more sophisticated correction technology if I could get it due to the room and the X1100 will hopefully be a good fit with the XT (would have been EVEN better at the $300 price mark on sale but you can't win em all!! )

And yep, that's floorplan. The big open room is the reason for the desire for big speakers and the inclusion of a center on the tv side of those stairs.

I tried to describe each pic as best I could so you would know what to focus on in each but I had to compress them so I apologize for them being small.

TV is being mounted on a recessed box mount with articulating/extending arm (Just shipped yesterday...not here yet) and all AC and LoVo are going to be relocated from where you see them on the wall to within the recessed box via punchouts. Trying to hide everything I can. Here's the mount:

http://www.av-express.com/AV-Catalog/tv-mount-swivel-tv-mount-corner-tv-wall-mount-articulating-category/in-wall-tv-mounts