Which brand makes the best quality loudspeakers?

[Sheep]

I will say JBL and Infinity make very good car speakers. I love them and am tempted to have them installed in mine. We put them in my brother's car over Christmas break.

I would check out some of the higher end JL set ups, like the C3. Should be a noticeable step up compared to the JBL/Infinity stuff.

SheepStar

 

[Sheep]

It's just on this point that we don't agree. I think most late model car audio systems are actually pretty good. I (unfortunately) have driven more than my share of rental cars, so its not like I'm forming an opinion based on high-end luxury cars either. No, I don't think any car system compares with a well-setup home audio system, it's just that my point is that most home audio systems are set up so poorly set up that stock car audio is often better for music.

I've found that I care less about the absolute SQ when listening to music in a car, because a large portion of my attention is fixed on the road (and possibly/definitely the asses and boobs of girls on the sidewalk). This alone means my car system needs less finesse and more boom and sizzle. I can't stand harsh high end, but other then that, a simple car setup is enough for me.

SheepStar

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Once I sat inside my WIFE's Honda Odyssey minivan (NOT MINE ), I check the ambient noise level with the engine on. The windows were closed. The van was in Park. But there were some wind noise and other cars were driving by. The noise level was about 70dBC.

This is not taking into consideration other possible noises like road/tire noise, horns, sirens, rain, hail, or major wind.

There are FOUR sides of huge GLASS windows in the car. That is major sound reflection off those glass windows.

So I don't understand why anyone would think that the sound inside a MOVING car with the 70dB+ NOISE floor and the 4 sides of GLASS reflections could even come close to being high fidelity.

And as Sheep pointed out, your full attention is on the road and other cars driving 70 MPH.

It's not like you can fully focus on the music as if you were at home in dead silent and tranquil environment.

 

[lsiberian]

I would check out some of the higher end JL set ups, like the C3. Should be a noticeable step up compared to the JBL/Infinity stuff.

SheepStar

I doubt it makes enough of a difference to justify the cost. We got his speakers for 30 bucks each. No way I'm putting 500 bucks into a car system just for speakers.

 

[Sheep]

I doubt it makes enough of a difference to justify the cost. We got his speakers for 30 bucks each. No way I'm putting 500 bucks into a car system just for speakers.

I've had some time with the speakers, and they are really nice. Yes, they're expensive but for a lot of my friends now, a car is the only place they can crank it up. If you have a home system I can see that car stuff isn't important, also most new cars have fairly stout factory setups and are so integrated that adding a 30 dollar speaker is actually a downgrade. I don't know what car these went into but on my 99 Rav4 the a pair of Boston 6.5 coaxials were an upgrade. On a 2012 model, that would not be the case.

SheepStar

 

[utubecomment21]

How can car audio be as good as the best home audio?

In a home system, you can have a dead silent environment and no GLASS WINDOWS all around you. Try putting huge mirrors all around the room and see how that sounds (even with acoustic panels).

In a car, you have GLASS windows all around you, road noise, engine noise, other car noise, wind noise all around you to some extent.

While I like much of what he was saying, I agree Car Audio can NEVER be as good as the best home audio for the very reasons you are saying. You can't get the noise floor low enough, nor can you get as good positioning and separation of the speakers. Still, I have heard car systems rival most people's home theater systems but that says a lot about the poor setup of the latter.

Didn't mean to turn this into a car audio thread, just relaying the words of someone with a proven track record rather than a POV! When any of us comes to the forum with 4 Oscars as a sound engineer and have been involved in some of the most significant films of the this and the last century, then I'll be more inclined to listen. For now, I'll stick with what Gary has to say. There's got to be something in it!

Again question remains; Why shouldn't car audio be as good as home audio?

The problem with audio in general is the hideous amount of ignorance in the industry hence those propping up such companies as Wilson, ATC, PMC who use cheap drivers and sell for 10,000's. Reviewers, magazines alike are there for commercial purposes only. If they really understood acoustics, and not acoustics mixed with nice shinny looking speakers and the chance to make some money, then they would be plugging totally different set of products .... but they don't!

As it is, the attention to such trinkets are a statement of ones lack of understanding of acoustics, rather than ones ability to grasp simple acoustical truths, the first principle being ; One speaker does not fit all! If you stick a speaker in 10,000 different lounges/locations, what are you going to get? 10,000 different responses!

So regardless of name/brand, buying an off the shelf speaker is pretty much null and void! Acoustics don't work on what brand of speaker you buy. Acoustics doesn't care whether your speaker is using a 5.5" midbass or 8" midbass. It doesn't care if you go for the redwood finish or the cherry wood finish. It doesn't care about your choice of cable because some reviewer gave it 4.5 stars.

Watch from 3:30

There are plenty of clever people that can help you to the goals you are trying to achieve.

I will say JBL and Infinity make very good car speakers. I love them and am tempted to have them installed in mine. We put them in my brother's car over Christmas break.

Although I have a soft spot for JBL in all arenas of acoustical equipment I think they are far from the best. Having owned a bit of JBL car audio gear, I personally wouldn't/couldn't recommend them. I'm still a fan of Morel and when they get their build quality issues sorted, Hybrid Audio

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPFr203Ulj0

 

[utubecomment21]

As for reducing the noise floor in a car, that's easy!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

When any of us comes to the forum with 4 Oscars as a sound engineer and have been involved in some of the most significant films of the this and the last century, then I'll be more inclined to listen. For now, I'll stick with what Gary has to say. There's got to be something in it!

Wining 4 Oscars doesn't guarantee that someone is smart/wise or knows everything or has the most common sense. Just like cost doesn't guarantee great sound.

Again question remains; Why shouldn't car audio be as good as home audio?

Car: acoustic treatment + 4 sides of HUGE GLASS windows + sound dampening + Engine NOISE + Wind NOISE + Tire/Road Noise = lots of noise and sound reflection.

Home: DEAD SILENT + acoustic treatment = ZERO NOISE and little sound reflection.

How MANY cars actually have enough sound proofing and acoustic treatment to rival home environment with acoustic treatment and zero noise floor?

How many people can afford cars that are the quietest with a cabin noise of 58dBA?

My wife's $32K Honda Odyssey is 70dB at PARK. It's probably 75dB @ 60 MPH.

My $92K Lexus LX570 isn't dead silent at park either. I'm guessing it's probably around 58-60dB.

You don't need 4 Oscars to figure it out.

The quietest car has a cabin noise of 58dBA @ 60 miles per hour.
http://elevatingsound.com/the-top-30-quietest-cars-a-cabin-noise-test-by-auto-bild/

Even if you soundproof the car, the noise would still be in the 50s.

In a treated home environment, the noise floor is dead silent (perceived).

 

[Irvrobinson]

Wining 4 Oscars doesn't guarantee that someone is smart/wise or knows everything or has the most common sense. Just like cost doesn't guarantee great sound.

Agreed, and... recording prowess is not an indicator of system design prowess. Jack Renner produced some of the best recordings I've ever heard while he was at Telarc. The man is a recording god. On the other hand he also felt that properly designed speaker cables sounded different.

Car: acoustic treatment + 4 sides of HUGE GLASS windows + sound dampening + Engine NOISE + Wind NOISE + Tire/Road Noise = lots of noise and sound reflection.

Home: DEAD SILENT + acoustic treatment = ZERO NOISE and little sound reflection.

How MANY cars actually have enough sound proofing and acoustic treatment to rival home environment with acoustic treatment and zero noise floor?

How many people can afford cars that are the quietest with a cabin noise of 58dBA?

My wife's $32K Honda Odyssey is 70dB at PARK. It's probably 75dB @ 60 MPH.

My $92K Lexus LX570 isn't dead silent at park either. I'm guessing it's probably around 58-60dB.

You don't need 4 Oscars to figure it out.

The quietest car has a cabin noise of 58dBA @ 60 miles per hour.
http://elevatingsound.com/the-top-30-quietest-cars-a-cabin-noise-test-by-auto-bild/

Even if you soundproof the car, the noise would still be in the 50s.

In a treated home environment, the noise floor is dead silent (perceived).

I see where you're going, but home listening rooms are not anechoic, they all have reflections. And of the several rooms I've measured during afternoons and evening none had ambient noise levels below 40db, and when the HVAC systems were running there were often rumbles of more like 50db below 100Hz. Have you ever measured the ambient noise level in your house in the afternoon?

 

[utubecomment21]

Wining 4 Oscars doesn't guarantee that someone is smart/wise or knows everything or has the most common sense. Just like cost doesn't guarantee great sound.

But yet you and 1,000's of other are willing to buy commercially based speakers based on what acoustical premise/principle in conjunction with parameter of your listening environment? And speaking of parameters, how do you know how a given driver will respond in a given enclosure placed in a given environment without knowing the T/S parameter of that driver? The answer is you don't and neither does the manufacturer! That consideration might be above your average Wilson Audio customer, but should be the basis of someone who calls themselves an 'Audiophile'

Car: acoustic treatment + 4 sides of HUGE GLASS windows + sound dampening + Engine NOISE + Wind NOISE + Tire/Road Noise = lots of noise and sound reflection.

Home: DEAD SILENT + acoustic treatment = ZERO NOISE and little sound reflection.

So what you are telling me is that there are no considerations for room acoustics other than to; plonk a pair of speakers in and away you go, and that a singular pair of B&W, Mission, Kef, or whatever brand of speakers you choose, are going to respond acoustically identically in 10,00 different rooms across the world? Facepalm

I think I'll leave that interesting assertion there!

 

[lsiberian]

Didn't mean to turn this into a car audio thread, just relaying the words of someone with a proven track record rather than a POV! When any of us comes to the forum with 4 Oscars as a sound engineer and have been involved in some of the most significant films of the this and the last century, then I'll be more inclined to listen. For now, I'll stick with what Gary has to say. There's got to be something in it!

Although I have a soft spot for JBL in all arenas of acoustical equipment I think they are far from the best. Having owned a bit of JBL car audio gear, I personally wouldn't/couldn't recommend them. I'm still a fan of Morel and when they get their build quality issues sorted, Hybrid Audio

You must run in different circles. Folks in my circles can't really afford to put 600 dollar speakers into their car. It cost us less than 100 dollars to put in the new fronts in my brothers car and the difference was night and day. Maybe they aren't up to the 600 dollar drivers, but that doesn't mean they aren't very good.

In a treated home environment, the noise floor is dead silent (perceived).

Not in my house.

 

[lsiberian]

But yet you and 1,000's of other are willing to buy commercially based speakers based on what acoustical premise/principle in conjunction with parameter of your listening environment? And speaking of parameters, how do you know how a given driver will respond in a given enclosure placed in a given environment without knowing the T/S parameter of that driver? The answer is you don't and neither does the manufacturer!

Why would you need to know the T/S parameters of a speaker you purchased? You can measure how a speaker will behave in a space pretty easily. Certain designs also help reduce reflections making them more flexible.

 

[utubecomment21]

You must run in different circles. Folks in my circles can't really afford to put 600 dollar speakers into their car. It cost us less than 100 dollars to put in the new fronts in my brothers car and the difference was night and day. Maybe they aren't up to the 600 dollar drivers, but that doesn't mean they aren't very good.



Not in my house.

I think its just a case of getting to know what's out there. I came from home audio into car audio, and it was a culture shock. I went for names I knew from home audio, JBL, then into Focal. However each ... branch area, home/car/pa/personal/studio audio has their own ... specialty brands so to speak. Then in car audio you either lean towards SPL or SQ.

I run Morel Tempo 6 coaxial's and (amongst others) a Hybrid Audio I5SW sub. I bought the sub on the strength of this video. There have been a few issues, but it replaced my 12" subwoofer!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Agreed, and... recording prowess is not an indicator of system design prowess. Jack Renner produced some of the best recordings I've ever heard while he was at Telarc. The man is a recording god. On the other hand he also felt that properly designed speaker cables sounded different.



I see where you're going, but home listening rooms are not anechoic, they all have reflections. And of the several rooms I've measured during afternoons and evening none had ambient noise levels below 40db, and when the HVAC systems were running there were often rumbles of more like 50db below 100Hz. Have you ever measured the ambient noise level in your house in the afternoon?

I just measured my HT room with the Galaxy digital SPL meter. The noise level is below the limit of 35dB. So we'll say 35dB. With the HVAC on, it is 36dB.

Try turning on the A/C or heater in the car and see how loud that it from 12" away.

I bet the car noise level is 80dB+ with the A/C on during those 100 degrees summer days.

Try soundproofing that.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I just measured my HT room with the Galaxy digital SPL meter. The noise level is below the limit of 35dB. So we'll say 35dB. With the HVAC on, it is 36dB.

You have a quieter room than I've ever measured. Awesome.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

You have a quieter room than I've ever measured. Awesome.

With the Heater on, two HTPCs on, Projector on, my room was 37dB.

In most cars (Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Ford, Chevy, Chrysler), I bet going 65MPH + heater or AC would be 70-75dB.

Even in the quietest cars of 58dB, adding A/C or heater would increase noise to above 60dB. Compare that to 35-40dB in a home environment and I think there is no contest in terms of noise floor.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Not in my house.

You mean you have screaming kids?

Yeah, in that case your noise floor is 75dB.

But put those same kids inside your car and it is 85dB.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

So what you are telling me is that there are no considerations for room acoustics other than to; plonk a pair of speakers in and away you go, and that a singular pair of B&W, Mission, Kef, or whatever brand of speakers you choose, are going to respond acoustically identically in 10,00 different rooms across the world? Facepalm

Who cares if the speakers respond IDENTICALLY?

We only care if they actually SOUND GREAT.

The room is dead silent. The speakers sound great. End of story.

 

[utubecomment21]

Who cares if the speakers respond IDENTICALLY?

We only care if they actually SOUND GREAT.

The room is dead silent. The speakers sound great. End of story.

facepalm.

I wish you guys the best.

 

[Irvrobinson]

facepalm.

I wish you guys the best.

ADTG does not speak for all of us, or perhaps anyone except himself, so lighten up. There are lots of opinions here, and his is just one of them.