Are DACS worth it?

[N.Cotman]

Hi all!

About half the time I spend listening to music is on vinyl, and the other half is from iTunes on my Macbook. Because I listen to a significant amount from a digital source, is a DAC worth it? Some of my files are lossless, but majority is MP3, so will having a DAC improve the quality of these MP3 files?

I am looking at the NAD DAC 1 or 2.

Looking forward to hearing some good stuff!

Regards,
Nick

 

[TLS Guy]

Hi all!

About half the time I spend listening to music is on vinyl, and the other half is from iTunes on my Macbook. Because I listen to a significant amount from a digital source, is a DAC worth it? Some of my files are lossless, but majority is MP3, so will having a DAC improve the quality of these MP3 files?

I am looking at the NAD DAC 1 or 2.

Looking forward to hearing some good stuff!

Regards,
Nick

A total waste of money, likely, although you don't state what DAC you are using now. Since you are listening to digital sources you must already have a DAC.

You buy separate DACs for a purpose usually audio recording and playback.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

In most cases external dacs are indeed useless. One fair use case for external dac is playing music from pc. In most pcs the analog section of audio is terrible at isolation. Its great in the lab, but not in real world.

Also musicians don't use dac, but audio interfaces which are very similar, but designed to support professional interfaces and very robust in terms of latencies, both of which average Joe couldn't care less about.

 

[KEW]

In most cases external dacs are indeed useless. One fair use case for external dac is playing music from pc. In most pcs the analog section of audio is terrible at isolation. Its great in the lab, but not in real world.

Are you saying an external DAC is a worthwhile addition for using a PC?
I think he is using his Macbook now.

If I follow what you are saying, the objective is to keep the signal digital until it gets out of the PC and then convert it after it is clear of so many sources of interference? That makes sense, but I probably know just the right amount to be dangerous on this topic.

I am honestly clueless on this, but considering using my PC for a music server.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Are you saying an external DAC is a worthwhile addition for using a PC?
I think he is using his Macbook now.

If I follow what you are saying, the objective is to keep the signal digital until it gets out of the PC and then convert it after it is clear of so many sources of interference? That makes sense, but I probably know just the right amount to be dangerous on this topic.

I am honestly clueless on this, but considering using my PC for a music server.

What I am saying is "an external DAC COULD a worthwhile addition for using a PC"
Typically only if there are noticeable issues like gobs of interference - from moving mouse or reading data from hd. If you don't get these - most likely en external dac would be useless for you.

I said in most PCs - Apple audio analog stuff is usually up-to snuff

Music server is storage, cataloger and serve data (aka music files) - it doesn't need dac, the client would

I also going to say than in the route of keeping audio path away from pc and away from RF/EMI interference one does not need to buy expensive dac, even cheap Behringer U-CONTROL UCA202 would do the trick (just use line-out port, not headphones one - the later one sucks)

 

[N.Cotman]

Basically my train of thought was that by using a USB-connected, external DAC (such as the NAD DAC 1), I would avoid the internal one of the MacBook Air (2014). But is the DAC on my laptop that good? As good as a NAD product dedicated to that same job? I thought the NAD would be better, but apparently MacBooks have quite good DACs in them? Sorry, I just want to make sure I'm on the right track!

 

[PENG]

Basically my train of thought was that by using a USB-connected, external DAC (such as the NAD DAC 1), I would avoid the internal one of the MacBook Air (2014). But is the DAC on my laptop that good? As good as a NAD product dedicated to that same job? I thought the NAD would be better, but apparently MacBooks have quite good DACs in them? Sorry, I just want to make sure I'm on the right track!

I use external DAC with my PC and Mac but I don't use it for MP3. If you mainly listen to MP3 don't waste your money on external DAC.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

NAD DAC 1 seems like huge waste of money at 290 UK Pounds - http://www.whathifi.com/nad/dac-1/review
and review isn't glowing ether.

I would use external DAC with pc only in two unique cases: I needed to get rid of VERY audible noises from PC - I am not talking about small stuff here and b) headphones needed beefer amp than pc output could provide.

In any other case most likely your exiting pc or mac internal DAC is just fine. Even worst realtek HD-Audio IF implemented correctly and with proper analog shielding - has pretty decent specs surely above -100db THD which is more than enough.

If my pc has really terrible (prone to RF noise) dac, even for mp3s external dac could help.

Now to OP's question:

If you don't get any noticeable RF interference from you macbook with connected speakers/headphones - I almost guarantee you - any external dac would be huge waste of money (With obvious exception of musicians, but that's whole another story).
It doesn't matter if DAC in NAD or other expensive amp is whole 5% better than one in you macbook - you won't be able to tell the difference with matched levels in blind test.

It's not the DAC fault your sound quality is not up to snuff - you need to look into improving speakers/sub

 

[N.Cotman]

NAD DAC 1 seems like huge waste of money at 290 UK Pounds - http://www.whathifi.com/nad/dac-1/review
and review isn't glowing ether.

I would use external DAC with pc only in two unique cases: I needed to get rid of VERY audible noises from PC - I am not talking about small stuff here and b) headphones needed beefer amp than pc output could provide.

In any other case most likely your exiting pc or mac internal DAC is just fine. Even worst realtek HD-Audio IF implemented correctly and with proper analog shielding - has pretty decent specs surely above -100db THD which is more than enough.

If my pc has really terrible (prone to RF noise) dac, even for mp3s external dac could help.

Now to OP's question:

If you don't get any noticeable RF interference from you macbook with connected speakers/headphones - I almost guarantee you - any external dac would be huge waste of money (With obvious exception of musicians, but that's whole another story).
It doesn't matter if DAC in NAD or other expensive amp is whole 5% better than one in you macbook - you won't be able to tell the difference with matched levels in blind test.

It's not the DAC fault your sound quality is not up to snuff - you need to look into improving speakers/sub

I can actually purchase the NAD DAC 1 for under $200 (Canadian)! But still, don't want to waste money. It wasn't necessarily that I don't find my music doesn't sound good, just that I wasn't sure if a DAC was a "must-have" item for someone who listens to a lot of digital music. I'm in no rush to get one thanks to the help you guys gave; if I have the opportunity to try one I will just out of curiosity!

 

[slipperybidness]

DACs are also useful for the few of us that have 2 channel analog setups.

My experience with onboard computer DACs has steered me to using only digi outs on my computers. Digi outs to the DAC in my receiver is my typical approach. Granted, most of my experience was with low-end Dells, and those sucked!

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

My experience with onboard computer DACs has steered me to using only digi outs on my computers. Digi outs to the DAC in my receiver is my typical approach. Granted, most of my experience was with low-end Dells, and those sucked!

Exactly, i bet you could easily hear the distortion coming from interference on these pcs. My desktop (custom built) was notorious in this regard. I made the choice to use optical out from pc to external dac to completely isolate the issue. It worked. Btw the optical out is from same on-board audio, but since its all digital - no problems

 

[slipperybidness]

Yup. A cheapy ~$15 soundcard with optical out to my Pio solved the problem on my Dell.

I currently use the mobo digi coax on my custom tower to the Pio reciever.

My external DAC is on my 2 channel analog preamp rig. Honestly, it sees very little use for now.

 

[Palladium]

A cheapo $45 Hifimediy USB DAC is all you gonna need if you just want a 3.5mm output and solve any interference issues of a PC. I am exceedingly skeptical that any DACs several hundreds of dollars more is going to make any difference in a DBT.

 

[coilman01]

Hi Guys, sorry to jump in-but I have the same quandary. My receiver is denon 4310ci that does 24/96 flac files. Was thinking of separate dac or go to further hi-rez and stream. what software are u using and is staying with should I go with different format? Thanks in advance

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

coilman, lets say you had a ferrari enzo. would you consider to change it's transmission in order to improve it?

 

[coilman01]

coilman, lets say you had a ferrari enzo. would you consider to change it's transmission in order to improve it?

 

[coilman01]

Thanks enzo is nice , so staying with 24/96 for now which software areyou running? Is f [bar better than itunes which i'm running now?
So foobar typo

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

It's not about bit rate or modulation frequency, software player nor about dacs ether. Property mastered CD at 16/44 will sound excellent on good speakers and properly treatment room. If you feel like you missing something - you need to look at your speakers and room, not already top notch avr like denon 4310.

 

[coilman01]

It's not about being desatisfied w/4310. My thought process was about going digital and accessing source material that otherwise wouldn't be available to me via computer. With so many formats out there I was thinking of a Upnp source unlike Oppo or the stream magic. I'm starting to stream more due to variety of older material over net.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

The problem with streamed stuff from internet is typically pretty bad compression.
At best 192kbs. It's near CD quality, but not where yet. It's not something ANY dac could fix.

Now if you have your own lossless audio music streaming it to your avr is not complicated process, not should you try overthink it