So what is going on in Missouri

[Nestor]

I'm pretty sure carrying a gun while on probation from an earlier gun charge is a violation.
That's why they ran when the cop rode by.
Them running caused the cop to make a u-turn.
Seeing him running in an awkward way while holding his waist band to prevent the gun from dropping also tipped off an experienced cop to what was going on.

The ice just continues to get thinner for anyone playing Devil's Advocate on this one.

He wasn't actually on probation. He was awaiting trial, hence the ankle bracelet.

My questions are over the incidents leading up to the shooting.

The cop would never have known he had a gun if he had not given chase, assuming he did have a gun.

Young Black males are 21 times more likely to be killed at the hands of police, according to a recent Probublica study.




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[Rickster71]

He wasn't actually on probation. He was awaiting trial, hence the ankle bracelet.

My questions are over the incidents leading up to the shooting.

The cop would never have known he had a gun if he had not given chase, assuming he did have a gun.

Young Black males are 21 times more likely to be killed at the hands of police, according to a recent Probublica study.




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I think there's much more to this than all white cops waking up each morning and wanting to kill anyone with dark skin.
Unfortunately there are people that can see that and only that.
It's just too simplistic to paint everyone with such a broad brush, don't you think?

While the burden of proof does sit with the police. I don't think many are interested in that.
A quote from much earlier in this thread: "We don't want proof. We want justice."

 

[crossedover]

He wasn't actually on probation. He was awaiting trial, hence the ankle bracelet.

My questions are over the incidents leading up to the shooting.

The cop would never have known he had a gun if he had not given chase, assuming he did have a gun.

Young Black males are 21 times more likely to be killed at the hands of police, according to a recent Probublica study.




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Technically he was on probation as a condition of bail. And not just standard probation but supervised ie the monitoring bracelet. The officer had a good reason to turn his vehicle around to observe what was going on and the teen had good reason to run as he was breaking the law

 

[herbu]

Young Black males are 21 times more likely to be killed at the hands of police, according to a recent Probublica study.

How do you explain that?

 

[Alex2507]

How do you explain that?

We aren't killing enough cops.

 

[Steve81]

A number of issues complicate this case. The officer retains 24/7 powers, but was on a private security job at the time of the incident. Someone here questioned whether the officer was driving a patrol car or a security car. When the kids bolted, did they see a security officer or a LEO?

Doesn't really make much difference. Whether its a security guard or a police officer pursuing you, there's no legal justification for turning around to scuffle with him / open fire on him.

IMO, the burden of proof of proper officer conduct in this incident is on the officer and the police dept.

No doubt. Ultimately, if Myers did turn around and open fire, readily verifiable forensic evidence will show this. Unfortunately, people seem unwilling to wait for all the facts of the case to come in.

 

[Rickster71]

Seems like a good thread to drop off this link:
The 12 cognitive biases that prevent you from being rational

 

[Chu Gai]

How do you explain that?

A partial explanation might lie here: The White/Black Educational Gap, Stalled Progress, and the Long Term Consequences of the Emergence of Crack Cocaine Markets

Ive also noticed a disproportionate number of blacks in sports such as basketball, certain running events and football. OTOH, there seems to be a disprortionate number of whites in hockey and chess. Also for some reason, Asian students tend to do better in schools. I also cant think of any blacks involved in speaker design. Strange.

 

[herbu]

Grand Jury decision is in. In this country, if you attack a policeman and beat him severely, he can still legally defend himself.

 

[Rickster71]

Thought this was an interesting article from James Randi Educational Foundation:

Titled: Eyewitnesses and Emotion: A reminder to engage critical thinking.
http://web.randi.org/swift/eyewitnesses-and-emotion-a-reminder-to-engage-critical-thinking
The problem of letting emotion overwhelm facts.

 

[3db]

Thought this was an interesting article from James Randi Educational Foundation:

Titled: Eyewitnesses and Emotion: A reminder to engage critical thinking.
http://web.randi.org/swift/eyewitnesses-and-emotion-a-reminder-to-engage-critical-thinking
The problem of letting emotion overwhelm facts.

That could be applied to that COPs who killed this man. I have no ducks in this race. I don't think white police are black killers but I do believe that the cops in this instance over reacted and I pull into question, their competence and their ability to properly assess a situation.

 

[herbu]

I do believe that the cops in this instance over reacted and I pull into question, their competence and their ability to properly assess a situation.

On what do you base your belief that the cops over reacted?

 

[3db]

The video reels

 

[markw]

The video reels

The man had pre-existing health issues. It's never been resolved whether it was actually choking that did him in or his prior heart condition. Sadly, the man struggled fiercely with the policeman rather than peacefully submit to being arrested for a crime he's been arrested for many times previously.

And, to remove any racial implications, he was being supervised by a black female superior officer who was on the scene who, at no time, saw fit to call the cops off.

So, it was either let him get away with committing the same crime he's been convicted of before, or taking him in and booking him again.

Had he simply submitted to the arrest, he'd most likely still be alive and probably receiving free medical care.

 

[Matt34]

A rear-naked choke hold has never been an unarmed self-defense technique taught in any LE academy I'm aware of. NYPD own SOP states "chokeholds" are not authorized. As a Soldier, we are taught chokes in combatives....to kill people.

If I had a 400lb man not coporating with me I would have gone straight to taser or OC, not jumping on his back like a monkey trying a sweet UFC move I saw on TV.

 

[herbu]

The video reels

Ah. We transitioned from Missouri to the choking. I missed the move.

If I had a 400lb man not coporating with me I would have gone straight to taser

Yeh, I thought the same thing. Easier to watch the tape and suggest what should have been done, than make the immediate decision onsite. Unfortunately, in today's racial climate, it seems every act of force by white on black is being challenged. Now another one where a black kid pulled an airsoft gun out of his waistband and the cop shot him.

The elephant in the room for all these cases is that the "victim" initiated the altercation. Nobody wants to talk about that.

 

[3db]

Ah. We transitioned from Missouri to the choking. I missed the move.


Yeh, I thought the same thing. Easier to watch the tape and suggest what should have been done, than make the immediate decision onsite. Unfortunately, in today's racial climate, it seems every act of force by white on black is being challenged. Now another one where a black kid pulled an airsoft gun out of his waistband and the cop shot him.

The elephant in the room for all these cases is that the "victim" initiated the altercation. Nobody wants to talk about that.

If you thought the same thing, then why the elephant remark? I'm judging this solely on the policemen action and not the color of the victim. The cops totally duffed this one regardless of the victims color. Unfortunately, the US is still living with the after affects caused by slavery and every one is putting a racial spin on this blinding them for what it really is, a police f-up. The real humanity coming out of this is from the parents of the victim. All sides should be taking their example.

 

[Rickster71]

An interesting point of view:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/5f0mVn0HH6U" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[herbu]

then why the elephant remark?

Because the "victim" initiated the altercation. If Eric Garner had not resisted arrest, the police would not have had to use force. It seems to me there are two relative subjects for discussion, both in this case and Missouri:
1) The violence initiated toward the police
2) The police response to that violence

When the police say, "You are under arrest", right or wrong, guilty or innocent, when is it the proper response to attack or resist? Was it proper in either of these cases?

I'm not saying the choke hold was proper. I don't know enough about it. The cop's supervisor was at the scene and didn't think it was excessive. The grand jury did not think it was murder. I'll let the formal process with access to all the information decide. By simply watching the video, I wonder why they didn't just taze him. I do know there has been recent controversy, press and pressure about cops tazing people. Again, I just don't know enough about it.

But I do know if you initiate violence toward a cop or cops trying to arrest you, you can expect a violent response. And I know the outcome of violence can not be 100% controlled. Not on the football field, not on the hockey rink, and not on the street.

 

[markw]

Unfortunately, the US is still living with the after affects caused by slavery and every one is putting a racial spin on this blinding them for what it really is, a police f-up.

No. Some are, and it's mostly blacks. Since Affirmative action came into play fifty years ago, blacks have distince advantages as far as jobd and education if they choose to avail themselves of it.

But, at that time, the entitlement generation was born. Single parent families were started by many who cannot afford it when some "bees" started "pollinating the flowers" and then moving on to others without owing up to their parental responsibilities and raising their offspring. This has now been going on for several generations in some cases and now feel it's owed to them.

Along those lines, it seems that affirmative action, where standards were lowered for job testing and entry into schools had now morphed into societies acceptance of "affirmative morality" where many now feel they don't have to follow the same laws that others have to follow. Ergo, they should be allowed to beat up on cops with impunity, do flash mob raids of stores and let's not foprget the knock-out" game that seems to have taken this country by storm.

With civil rights come civil responsibility. I know many fine people of color and it pains me, and them, when I see these animals (yes, I said it) tearing this country apart and liberals cheering them on.

So, no, it's not a carryover from slavery or even racism, at least on the parts of whites and cops. There are some white aholes that are prejudiced but, trust me, there are a heckuva lot of blacks out there that are even worse, and many go out looking for white victims. Cops are now wary because of their experiences with the thug elements they are forced to deal with on a daily basis and react accordingly.

Listen to what Pastor Johnathan Gentry has to say about this whole thing.