A warning to would be Audiophiles....

[jcparks]

What you are about to embark on can end up being a very expensive hobby...
I like many others on this forum have invested a good deal of capital on my audio system, and often I find myself still shopping for something new. Just recently I jumped head first into a deal on a pair of speakers. I had been watching for a pair of these speakers on the used markets for years, and I when I got the opportunity I jumped... These speakers ended up being way more then what I bargained for. Giant heavy beasts that did not fit at all in my decor (my apologies to everyone on the forum for so many posts about wanting WAF friendly equipment and then buying Vandersteens...). They were power hungry and required more than what I was able to feed them, necessitating the purchase of a separate power amplifier, and at the end of the day, acoustically, they didn't wow me. Perhaps if I had more money to invest in more quality components I would have been able to properly open them up and let them sing, but alas...
Now I have them relisted, and I hope I can recoup what I spent on them...
Over the last 6 months I have worked around a lot of overtime and spent a couple grand on new equipment.
Understand that you always have time. Every different piece of equipment has a different sonic signature. The best way to start is to know what you are looking for. Once you figure that out, take your time, auditioning, researching, and building something that is perfect for you. Just know that there is always going to be something a little better, a little more warm and precise... but at the end of the day, that "little something" will probably end up costing you quite a bit of money.

P.S.
Listen to the guys on this forum... they really do know what they are talking about and unlike the sales person that you may find at your local audio store, they dont have any sort of money making agenda.

 

[ematthews]

Yep. I have spent so much money I could have paid my car off by now. I have ended up with two music only systems. Not one but two.. And none of the equipment was cheap. I just bought new Ascend Acoustic RAAL Towers this month... And I already have fantastic RBH SX-6300/R towers... Ugh, I know my wife hates it.

 

[PENG]

Every different piece of equipment has a different sonic signature. The best way to start is to know what you are looking for.

Great post, except I wouldn't say "every" as it makes it too general. For example, most decent amps designed and built to be transparent, would not have a different sonic signature if paired with speakers that don't have extreme spec parameters. Turntable/cartridges, speakers, tend to have greater variety, even the higher end ones. There are always some piece equipment that have sonic signature, some probably by design, others just poor design.

P.S.
Listen to the guys on this forum... they really do know what they are talking about and unlike the sales person that you may find at your local audio store, they dont have any sort of money making agenda.

Like the sales persons, some do and some don't, one has to read and do their own research. I find most of the technical articles on Audioholics credible, cannot say the same for all online forums.

 

[JohnnieB]

ematthews, I probably missed the post, how do your Ascends' compare with your RBH?

 

[Prizefighter]

People like to get in to pissing contest with everything, even with our hobby.
I have a 10yr old system, it def could be worst and def could be better. Just be happy with what you have. I personally wouldnt overwork myself just so i can upgrade my system, but thats just me


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[slipperybidness]

How many of us, and how many times, have we made an "upgrade", only to find that the money was a waste, or that the upgrade introduced a new problem into your system?

I have had the "introduced a new problem" several times! Oh well, that's part of it.

But, when you get all your problems worked out and everything finally dialed in.....that's what it's all about.

 

[JohnnieB]

Honestly, show me a hobby any different. Unless your into collecting dust bunnies.

 

[TLS Guy]

I think the biggest mistake is replacing gear for a better sound. Speakers are to all intense and purposes what makes your system sound the way it does in your room.

If you don't like what you hear, it is more likely than not a speaker problem.

There comes the rub however, as auditioning speakers is very difficult and you certainly can't audition a long list. Most just do not have time for that.

My advice in people starting out is to if at all possible invest in tools and software and get experience designing and building your own speakers.

Back in the 50s a lot of major manufacturers really encouraged and supported it. It was popular back then. Now it is even easier for the home builder to learn the craft. Just don't say you want to design a three or four way as your first speaker.

Will there be mistakes and frustrations on the way? Certainly. However much of your investment can be recycled. Frequently the design can be improved and updated just changing one component or two. This is a heck of a lot easier, than selling and buying a new set of speakers.

If you take time to really understand, you will learn to build superb speakers voiced to your listening space and creating the sound scape you desire. This is an important point as sound stage is something you can glean very little about from specs. I like to create a very specific sound scape with my designs and never hear it satisfactorily duplicated in other designers speakers.

When it really comes down to it, every speaker needs customizing to the room, and to an extent the room to the speaker.

This way I have made this hobby a collection as much as anything, and have grown the system. I have regretted very few purchases over the years, very, very few. I think the main reason is that I have never used a commercial speaker system off the shelf. I think that is significant, and has allowed me not to get into the common problem outlined by the OP.

The speaker market is a veritable jungle and best avoided in my view.

 

[jcparks]

I suppose I should clarify a little on my OP...
I was actually trying to caution against impulse purchases. Regarding the Vandersteens, there are a lot of reasons that I decided to try to resale them. Honestly I thought they sounded great... and if I had the space I would probably try harder to hold on to them. The big problem however is the space, TLS in way you were right when you said it was a room problem. That's exactly what it is. My wife and I have been doing a lot of redesigning in the living room, Refinished the floors, new paint, new windows in the next few months, and the last step will be a custom built in entertainment center on the front wall. While I may be able to make those speakers work in the living room, honestly it just isn't worth it to me. So I have the option of using them as a stereo listening setup in another part of the house, which I still may do, they are just so damn big. As of right now I actually have a good chance of selling them for a bit more then what I paid. There is quite a bit of interest at what I have them listed at right now which will allow me to put a couple dollars in my pocket. If I cant make money off of them I will probably set them up at my in-laws or something a long those linse.. There is a lot more that goes into it, but honestly what it boils down to is, I made an impulse purchase without thinking ahead, and now I have these giant 100 pound speakers that dont work at all for what I bought them for.
Like I said this post was more the caution against impulse purchases then any thing else.

 

[jcparks]

Oh and regarding the DIY TLS, I am very into that idea. Over the last year I have built up a decent tool collection for exactly that purpose. My first project was The Overnight sensation kit which I use as computer speakers and adore... I am in the process of building a small sealed sub woofer for them, got that cabinet all assembled, I'm just waiting to get through Christmas to purchase the driver and the amp. When I get more comfortable with my wood working I am eyeing the Seas Loki kit at Madisound as it should work really well with the entertainment center I have planned in the living room... that will be a bit though, I'm in enough trouble right now for all of my electronic purchases as of late...

 

[TLS Guy]

Oh and regarding the DIY TLS, I am very into that idea. Over the last year I have built up a decent tool collection for exactly that purpose. My first project was The Overnight sensation kit which I use as computer speakers and adore... I am in the process of building a small sealed sub woofer for them, got that cabinet all assembled, I'm just waiting to get through Christmas to purchase the driver and the amp. When I get more comfortable with my wood working I am eyeing the Seas Loki kit at Madisound as it should work really well with the entertainment center I have planned in the living room... that will be a bit though, I'm in enough trouble right now for all of my electronic purchases as of late...

You are going about things the right way. You will gain experience and confidence. That SEAS coaxial in the Loki kit is a great driver by the way. They are excellent for center channel use.

 

[3db]

I've only upgraded twice for upgrade sakes a)going from a Technics speaker system to PSB and b) going with a Rythmik sub because I wanted to hit 20Hz with authority, something my PSB sub just couldn't do . Other upgrades were done because of obsolescence,, ie Yamaha RX-V1800 with HDTV, HDMI and the new lossless audio over the Technics which only supported DTS and Dolby Digital. I use that receiver in my second system and have bought used PSB Alpha series speakers to support that. I see no further upgrades...3D doesn't interest me.

 

[andyblackcat]

eBay, is my route to cheap upgrades with second hand used gear.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Just know that there is always going to be something a little better, a little more warm and precise... but at the end of the day, that "little something" will probably end up costing you quite a bit of money.

When you have TRULY figured it out and bought the "last system you will ever need to buy" (whatever that system may be), you will realize that there is NOTHING actually better or worth paying more for.

Until then, you have not TRULY figured it out.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

3D doesn't interest me.

Nor does Dolby ATMOS and the likes.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

My advice in people starting out is to if at all possible invest in tools and software and get experience designing and building your own speakers.

Your advice for NEW audio enthusiasts is to build their own speakers?

My advice to young people (like Monk) is to study hard in school, make lots of money upon graduation, and BUY your speakers because you could make A LOT more money working overtime than building speakers.

Spend your free time with your family enjoying the movies and music, not with speakers.

 

[jcparks]

I agree and disagree with you ADTG... While speaker building isn't for everyone, I dont think it has to take away from your family time at all. Overtime however, always pulls you away from your family. I know cause I do work a moderate amount of overtime, and I have also been experimenting with speaker building. Personally I look at speaker building as a hobby, and I would push any father to try to include his kids in his hobby. Nothing makes for better bonding time then doing some hands on crafting with your son or daughter. Am I going to be able to make anything that will be good enough to replace my emp teks, or my SVS, I doubt it... I will have plenty of good father son and daughter time experimenting though...

 

[Prizefighter]

adtg- no such thing as last system you will ever buy. Doing so is going against human nature.
You could be satisfied with your system for years to come, but we all know that itch comes back sooner than later.


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[Prizefighter]

What we perceive as better is actually just different from what we are used to. Of course i am talking about the higher echelon of speakers.


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[Cos]

1. Know your Room Size - Do your research, not every speaker is going to work in your room setup
2. Define what you are trying to accomplish (2 chnl, home Theater, etc)
3. Make a Budget and stick to it!

Easy as 1,2,3....