Houston, one of my Revel Salon's may have a problem

[AcuDefTechGuy]

nothing causes glue to fail like heat!

I think everyone can agree with that.

Glue fought the Heat, and the Heat won.

So assuming the glue isn't bad Chinese glue, more and bigger drivers have less chance of glue failure.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I think you are correct. That is why I favor two 10" drivers over a 15" The cone area is the same. As long as the 10" has a low Fs, in my case 20 Hz then all will be well.

I never knew why, but I also prefer the sound of dual 10" drivers over 15" or 18".

I think most people disagree, but that has been my (limited) experience.

 

[RichB]

The midrange on the left is the new design (taller and thinner magnet), the one on the right is the original design.



The new weighs 1 pound the original weighs 1 and 1/8'th pound.

The bad midrange had a position where it clicks (perhaps oil-cans) when you very gentle slide your finger in a circle around the diaphragm.

The replacement is installed (soldered ) and working well after a quick stress test.
So far so good.

- Rich

 

[GranteedEV]

Hey Dr. mark, any chance you'd be able to restore these destroyed drivers to usefulness?

 

[RichB]

I got a chance to run the tone tests and everything sounded good except the right salon mid-range.

Playing a 1 kHz tone, I found the right-channel to be less clean and then, duh, it occurred to me to break out the OmniMic2.

There are significantly higher harmonics at 2K, 3.2K, and 4K on the right channel.
Spectrum analysis are attached.

I posted this a while back.
This distortion was easily detected listening to less congested music with piano solos and female vocals when the tones were down 35 DB.

Can the THD be computed from this measurement?

- Rich

 

[RichB]

Playing Partrica Barber's Swim at a good volume upsets my Right Salon 6.5 mid-Bass driver.
After swapping the preamp outs and amp outs the problem remained in the right channel.

I am playing the 24/96 HDTracks FLAC file and the midrange losses it a few times between 1:50 and 2:00 minutes.

A friend did an analysis of the audio and it has about 24 DB dynamic range while playing this section.
That would indicate a power spike of about 100X. He has old radio-shack meters and the go from about 1 watt to 50 watts driving his monitors.

I was playing at -15 via the HA-1 connected to the A51 amp.

There is no problem I can detect at moderate volumes but it wasn't too expensive so, I ordered a replacement.

Here is an look at the FLAC file:



- Rich

 

[TLS Guy]

Hey Dr. mark, any chance you'd be able to restore these destroyed drivers to usefulness?

Not unless the parts are available.

 

[TLS Guy]

Playing Partrica Barber's Swim at a good volume upsets my Right Salon 6.5 mid-Bass driver.
After swapping the preamp outs and amp outs the problem remained in the right channel.

I am playing the 24/96 HDTracks FLAC file and the midrange losses it a few times between 1:50 and 2:00 minutes.

A friend did an analysis of the audio and it has about 24 DB dynamic range while playing this section.
That would indicate a power spike of about 100X. He has old radio-shack meters and the go from about 1 watt to 50 watts driving his monitors.

I was playing at -15 via the HA-1 connected to the A51 amp.

There is no problem I can detect at moderate volumes but it wasn't too expensive so, I ordered a replacement.

Here is an look at the FLAC file:

View attachment 14067

- Rich

My advice is to fix'em and sell'em!

 

[lsiberian]

Another example of how a thread can take a compelling turn.

 

[RichB]

My advice is to fix'em and sell'em!

My Revels, I think I'll keep them (for those old enough to remember the Geritol ad)

- Rich

 

[Irvrobinson]

My advice is to fix'em and sell'em!

Same advice I gave him earlier. He won't listen.

 

[RichB]

Same advice I gave him earlier. He won't listen.

Reminds me of a saying a good friend was fond of: Your prayers have been answered and the answer is no

This is too much money to spend right now (other priorities) and too much of effort went into selection and mounting of the center channel.
There repairs are cheap in comparison to the cost and performance that I am maintaining. I also enjoy doing them.

If you dare, play that track at close to reference - 15 DB. I suspect it will put a strain on most amps and speakers.
It is a good example of a track that is not bass heavy but places sever demands on the playback system.
Crossing your mains to a subwoofer will not help

- Rich

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

This is too much money to spend right now (other priorities) and too much of effort...
The repairs are cheap in comparison to the cost and performance that I am maintaining...

I agree with you there. Onerous for sure.

I need a pill just imagining the labor.

 

[RichB]

The replacements midrange is installed. We could not get the old driver out without destroying it.
All is well now, there is no breakup. My guess is the cone was partially detached so it could be another case of glue failure.

- Rich

 

[RichB]

The 6.5 inch driver is substantial, weighing in at 7.5 lbs.:




- Rich

 

[RichB]

Both speakers have replaced tweeters, midranges, and 1 has a new sub-bass and they image well and sound great!

I am so happy there are no issues with the crossovers !

All is well...for now

- Rich

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Both speakers have replaced tweeters, midranges, and 1 has a new sub-bass and they image well and sound great!

I am so happy there are no issues with the crossovers !

All is well...for now

- Rich

So did all those drivers malfunction prior to being replaced or did you just feel trigger happy?

What is a sub-bass?

 

[walter duque]

Both speakers have replaced tweeters, midranges, and 1 has a new sub-bass and they image well and sound great!

I am so happy there are no issues with the crossovers !

All is well...for now

- Rich

Next time don't buy speakers made in Mexico. I am not sure, but I think that's where they are made. Spending that kind of money I better get the owner on the phone and get things worked out, at no cost to me at all. Check this http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=HAR Basic Chart#{"range":"2y","scale":"linear"}
must be a reason that stock soared. Cheap cabinets, cheap drivers, low labor cost-spells a disaster. Profit margins must be good. My local deal discontinued selling them, they where just not up to par.

 

[RichB]

So did all those drivers malfunction prior to being replaced or did you just feel trigger happy?

]

A few years ago, the Voice center channel sounded scratchy and I found that pressing the midrange produced that sound. Revel support said that it was a known problem and they were in the process of developing a replacement driver (they ran out). It took 6 months but they provided a replacement driver free.
At the time, I the tech said the Voice had a different midrange. That was not correct. The Salons also used that same midrange.

At the start of this thread, I discovered the same problem on the right Salon playing Patricia Barber's Swim (HDTracks) at decent volume.
So I replaced both midranges as recommended by the Revel tech.

A couple of years ago, I replaced both tweeters (saving the original) and because the right-channel did not sound as good as the left.
That may have been due to the issues above and a misdiagnosis on my part.

As it stands the Salons have new tweeters, midranges, and the right-channel has a new mid-bass.
The Center channel has a new mid-range.

- Rich

 

[RichB]

Next time don't buy speakers made in Mexico. I am not sure, but I think that's where they are made. Spending that kind of money I better get the owner on the phone and get things worked out, at no cost to me at all. Check this http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=HAR+Basic+Chart#{"range":"2y","scale":"linear"}
must be a reason that stock soared. Cheap cabinets, cheap drivers, low labor cost-spells a disaster. Proftmargines must bed good.

Buy a speaker primarily composed of Chinese parts...
The cabinets are holding up well.

These days, with pieces-parts made all over, I rely on the quality of the company.

-Rich