Really Boring Stuff Only III: Resurrection

[ParadigmDawg]

I have been hearing that for a long time and my father used to hear it before me lol, diamonds are diamonds. I am sure the synthetic market {which has been around since the 1950's} will replace some of the "lower end' market but for the stones in the say $20K+ market, people are going to want "real" stones, insured, certified, and documented genuine diamonds made in the earth over millions of years, not a diamond made in a lab with a machine... All of the stones i have purchased are 100% doc'd and mark'd so they will at minimum hold their value...
heres a pic I took a while back, sitting on top of my tekton towers... thats less than half of her jewelry box, that is the white gold stuff, she has about half that amount in platinum {fad}, and about the same in yellow gold, 3 different jewelry boxes built into the safe, insured value is well over .75 mil, but actual would be more like 1/2's that, I want to say she is up to 125c in diamonds and 12oz gold.
For example-That ring in the left black box with the yellow stones is set in rhodium coated 18K with a matched pair of .75c genuine fancy vivid yellow diamonds and a 1.52 carat center stone certified GIA D/IF, the ring itself with no stones was only $1200{this is the second set of stones i had put in, the priginals went into a pendant}, the center stone was $40K {A STEAL AT THAT} and the pair of matched yellows were also a steal at $10K for the pair, I could sell the center very close to $60K and the sides for around 1/2 that, that is her second most valuable ring, the other one is all clear diamonds ttl over 5c!!!
here is a stone very similar to the center in her yellow tri stone... http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-5-Carat-Round-Loose-Diamond-GIA-D-IF-Free-Ring-Cert-17157218-/400784848877?pt=Loose_Diamonds&hash=item5d50a377ed

SO they are investments, some day when I am gone and someone in my family needs funds down the line after they are handed down and inherited they will hopefully be worth millions....

My Wife's wedding ring was under 5k. Sometimes I feel like I should have spent more- when I look out at our 4 bikes and each one of them cost more than her ring. I think I may get a larger diamond in her ring for our 5th year of marriage. She loves her ring so maybe she won't even want me to do that.

 

[ImcLoud]

You should spend at least 4 months salary{not take home}, keep in mind once you are married and have to buy a ring you have to count her salary too... Figure if you earn $1500 a wk multiply that by 17.4 gives you $26,100.00 for the complete ring including setting... I know women say "I don't care about that stuff" and "I don't like fashy rings", ect.. But that is BS, they care, I see my wifes face when people say "wow let me see your ring" or "is that real?!?!" it makes them feel "worth it" for lack of a better phrase, some people will say its shallow or whatever but its the truth, its a tradition, so take it seriously, you had a wedding right? How would I feel about myself if she had a $7500 ring but I spend $10K on a stereo system? I would feel pathetic...
Or if I had a daughter and her fiance was making $5K a month driving a $50K car and he bought my daughter a ring that only cost him $4000. Now if they are 20 and in college thats a different story, obviously...


Bigger isn't really better, figure it this way, minimum size would be a full carat, minimum quality would be gia D color and vs1 clarity in which ever cut she likes round and princess seem to stay in style, emerald, asscher, and radiant cuts are nice for larger stones 2ct and above, but cuts like pear, oval, cushion, and marquise are tough sells {you can get nice clean large stones in them cuts cheap, but theres a reason for it}, heart cuts are a fad, stay away from them...

So with them things being said your starting budget would be 1 carat round or princess D color and VS1 should be right under $20K GIA cert...
I bought 4 matching 1.25 carat stones about 5 years ago, all GIA all D color VVS1 for $60K, I gave them to a broker about a year later and it took him less than 24 hours to sell them for well over $100K, surprisingly they were sold locally and went into a mens ring, I don't know who the buyer was but it had to be a large ring because they were used to circle a 5 carat stone {to make a 10 ct total}!!! We have some NE Patriots that live around here so most likely it was a football player or larger flashy man of some sort with a good income since a ring like that would be close to a quarter million dollars...

 

[Steve81]

You should spend at least 4 months salary

According to people who sell diamonds, yeah Maybe make it 6-8 months salary for good measure. You do love your wife, don't you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engagement_ring

The idea that a man should spend a significant fraction of his annual income for an engagement ring originated de novo from De Beers marketing materials in the mid-20th century, in an effort to increase the sale of diamonds. In the 1930s, they suggested that a man should spend the equivalent of one month's income in the engagement ring; later they suggested that he should spend two months' income on it.[32] In 2012, the average cost of an engagement ring in USA as reported by the industry was US$4,000.[33]

Heck, my wedding ring cost less than $100, and I'd be just as happy with a $10 surgical steel ring. While my wife may not be that cheap, she's got other priorities that come before blowing 20+ grand on a shiny rock.

 

[ImcLoud]

According to people who sell diamonds, yeah Maybe make it 6-8 months salary for good measure. You do love your wife, don't you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engagement_ring


Heck, my wedding ring cost less than $100, and I'd be just as happy with a $10 surgical steel ring. While my wife may not be that cheap, she's got other priorities that come before blowing 20+ grand on a shiny rock.

I completely agree, if you owe $200K on a house worth $300K and have less than $15K in a savings account with car payments and bills to be paid, than you would be insane to spend $20K on a ring... I am talking about a financially secure person spending a quarter of a years salary on a ring that his wife will wear everyday for the rest of her life... Its the symbol of your love, no other way to think of it than that... I think your wedding ring should reflect your income. When my cousin got engaged about 10 year ago he said "Im going to buy her a cheap ring and a car" he was doing well for himself so he bought her a $2K ring and a $30K car... The car is long gone and that 2K ring still sits on her finger, he has brought it up a few times how he should have spent more while he had it...

 

[Steve81]

I completely agree, if you owe $200K on a house worth $300K and have less than $15K in a savings account with car payments and bills to be paid, than you would be insane to spend $20K on a ring...

IOW, most people would be insane to spend $20K on a ring Particularly most people getting married in their 20's.

Its the symbol of your love, no other way to think of it than that...

Sure there is. It's a shiny rock whose price is artificially inflated. Nothing more, nothing less. More importantly, I've got better ways of showing my wife love than buying her a rock, even a really really expensive rock.

 

[ImcLoud]

IOW, most people would be insane to spend $20K on a ring Particularly most people getting married in their 20's.

I said that in the post you quoted... I am talking about financially secure people... UNLESS you are in your 20's and a quarter years salary is $20K then maybe it would fit...

Sure there is. It's a shiny rock whose price is artificially inflated. Nothing more, nothing less. More importantly, I've got better ways of showing my wife love than buying her a rock, even a really really expensive rock.

What other kind of inflation is there? I didn't say it was the only way to show her, there are other ways too.. I have a friend who paid off his wifes school loans instead of spending a lot on a ring, she seemed to really appreciate that...

$20K is not a lot of money, it may be a lot for a hotel room and dinner or a suit set, but for a ring that your wife has to wear everyday as a symbol of your union? I think it would have to be worth at least 10 times what your stereo system costs, lol... If anyone on here can NOT reflect that you should be ashamed , lol... If you spent $2000 on you wifes ring and $4000 on a home theater system imo its a little.... umm.. wrong.... Bad boy, bad bad boy...

I am just kidding, its all about priorities, if your wife would rather have a $4000 HT that will last for 10 years vs a nicer family heirloom that she can hand down to your children and show anyone she meets during the day that she is "spoken for" then so be it... When I proposed to my wife with the ring I could afford at the time, she loved it, she still has it and still loves it, but when i gave her the others and upgraded and all of her jewelry she NEVER denied any of it... Granted we go to a lot of fancy parties where a 5ct ring, 3ct bracelet, and 5ct necklace blend in with the other women wearing 15 carats of diamonds, so my wife gets a lot of chances to get dressed up and wear her jewelry, if you are the type to go out once every 2 years and your wife will hardly wear anything extravagant, than I agree, spend as little as possible {I guess}...

 

[Steve81]

What other kind of inflation is there?

In the case of diamonds, tightly controlled production / mining to keep prices artificially high. Of course, if you're convinced that diamonds are an excellent investment, you can try a little experiment: go your store of choice and drop $20K on a nice diamond ring. Then go to another jeweler and try to sell it...

$20K is not a lot of money

It's not a lot for you. OTOH, if you ask someone making $60,000-$80,000 a year if $20K is a lot, you might get a different opinion.

If you spent $2000 on you wifes ring and $4000 on a home theater system imo its a little.... umm.. wrong.... Bad boy, bad bad boy...

At this point I probably have spent close to 5x on my main system than my wife's ring. OTOH, I wasn't exactly flush with cash at that time, and I've been building my system up over a period of time. While we could afford a costlier ring now, it wouldn't have the same meaning, and as mentioned earlier, she has other priorities.

 

[ImcLoud]

In the case of diamonds, tightly controlled production / mining to keep prices artificially high. Of course, if you're convinced that diamonds are an excellent investment, you can try a little experiment: go your store of choice and drop $20K on a nice diamond ring. Then go to another jeweler and try to sell it...

I never said they were "excellent" investments, that they are not.. But when you compare them to other items you can buy to make your wife happy they are in the top 10, lol...
As far as your experiment goes, do that with any item and I am sure you are going to lose 10-20% more than the markup, so if the dealer pays 10K and sells for 13K they are only going to give you $8K, obviously...

And I do not recommend going to a jewelry store for a new ring, I would buy a loose stone then buy a setting and take them to a jeweler to have it set and sized... You can buy a $15K stone and a $1K setting and have a $20K ring...

1 More note on the investment side of this conversation {that by the way I appreciate}.
My father bought my mother her ring in 1976 for $2500, she wore it for 26 years and they got divorced {sad, I know} she sold that ring for $12K to a jeweler!!!

Show me something you can buy and your wife can wear, enjoy, and show off, for 40 years then sell for more money than it cost you? Just name one thing that fits that bill.... I'll wait...



As for your wife, no one knows her as good as you.. I have an exeriment for you, go to ebay and buy her one of them real looking cz rings, say a 2ct ring, something really impressive that if real would cost say 12-20K$, and give it to your wife over a fancy dinner, tell her how you saved a long time and she was worth every penny... See if she falls in love with it or if she reminds you about her other priorities... Part 2 of that experiment would be telling her it was just an experiment, where if you are right she would be relieved and if you are wrong she would, well not be relieved....

 

[Steve81]

Show me something you can buy and your wife can wear, enjoy, and show off, for 40 years then sell for more money than it cost you? Just name one thing that fits that bill.... I'll wait...

Let's try this instead. You buy your wife a $20,000 ring. She can wear it, enjoy it, show it off, etc. I'll buy my wife a $5,000 ring that she can still wear, enjoy, show off to her friends, and invest the rest. Who's getting better returns in 30 years?

Going further, will your wife be so much happier knowing you spent $20,000 on her ring versus the $5,000 that I spent for my wife? Or after 30 years, will it be the love, affection, and experiences you've shared together that define our marriages?

 

[Steve81]

As for your wife, no one knows her as good as you.. I have an exeriment for you, go to ebay and buy her one of them real looking cz rings, say a 2ct ring, something really impressive that if real would cost say 12-20K$, and give it to your wife over a fancy dinner, tell her how you saved a long time and she was worth every penny...

No experiment necessary: she would murder me if I spent $12-20K on a ring. Like I said, she has other priorities, and money isn't growing on trees where we are. Now if I magically produced a down payment for a nice house closer to where her parents live, that's another story.

 

[ImcLoud]

Let's try this instead. You buy your wife a $20,000 ring. She can wear it, enjoy it, show it off, etc. I'll buy my wife a $5,000 ring that she can still wear, enjoy, show off to her friends, and invest the rest. Who's getting better returns in 30 years?

Going further, will your wife be so much happier knowing you spent $20,000 on her ring versus the $5,000 that I spent for my wife? Or after 30 years, will it be the love, affection, and experiences you've shared together that define our marriages?

I am not arguing the investment value, sure there are better ways to invest money, I said that a few times already...

Heres my other point, my wife would be happy with a ring I made from card board, thats why it makes me feel so good buying her what I think she deserves... If she was the type that demanded or expected expensive jewelry than I wouldn't have married her, lol....

My wife and her friends know the difference between a $5K ring and a $20K ring... I think of it this way, the same way I like to bring a $40K rifle to the range for shoot shows she deserves to have nice jewelry to make her feel like the princess she is... I have hot rods worth $80K, a gun collection close to $600K, collectible collection close to the same, 5 motorcycles, at least $100K in tools I dont use, the list goes on and on, she has the kids and her jewelry, lol...

I think what your wifes ring costs should be uniform with what you spend on anything else, like I said... If you will spend x amount on your HT, I would think you would spend much much more on your wifes ring... But it goes with priorities and there is no set amount. I know I would feel funny if my ht was more than the ring

 

[Steve81]

I am not arguing the investment value, sure there are better ways to invest money, I said that a few times already...

OK, lets ignore the investment aspect, and focus on value.

Heres my other point, my wife would be happy with a ring I made from card board

Bingo. That's the point. Spending $20,000 vs $5,000 for a ring won't make my wife happier in 30 years. The value of my HT is neither here nor there in the discussion.

My wife and her friends know the difference between a $5K ring and a $20K ring...

Perhaps, but if your wife was judged poorly for only having a $5K ring, I wouldn't think much of her friends.

 

[Rickster71]

It's nothing more than a gullible public (financially secure or not) being led around with a carrot on a stick. Edward Bernays couldn't have done it better.

A worldwide decline of diamond prices in the 1930s led the Oppenheimer family to begin their world famous marketing campaign, "A diamond is forever."

Henry, son of Ernest, traveled to New York in 1938 to meet with advertising agency N. W. Ayer. The United States was seen as the next big market for diamonds, and a very effective game plan was formed to sell diamonds to Americans: convince them that diamonds equated love.

Through advertising, men were convinced that the size of the diamond in an engagement ring showed how much they loved their fiancée. Movie stars were shown wearing diamonds in the relatively new motion pictures. And the most effective piece of advertising came in 1947, with the creation of the tag line "A diamond is forever." This later become the company's official motto.

As a result of these campaigns, the number of brides receiving engagement rings, and diamond prices in the U.S., increased dramatically.


Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/history-of-de-beers-2011-12?op=1#ixzz3IEUKcaNK

 

[Chu Gai]

Wasn't such a good investment for Kris Humphries.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/kris-humphries-auctions-kim-kardashians-648944?mobile_redirect=false

 

[ImcLoud]

OK, lets ignore the investment aspect, and focus on value.


Bingo. That's the point. Spending $20,000 vs $5,000 for a ring won't make my wife happier in 30 years. The value of my HT is neither here nor there in the discussion.


Perhaps, but if your wife was judged poorly for only having a $5K ring, I wouldn't think much of her friends.

OK, so I already said my wife would be happy with anything, she has the extravagant jewelry because I feel she deserves it and I have the money to buy it... You can't argue that spending $20K is "crazy" when you spent $5K? If it was not about money why not get your wife a $90 band with a $5 CZ stone mounted in it? Or just a band? I am just saying the amount you spend should follow you income, not debating the "value" {which is worth a lot to me because I want my wife to have the best or as close to that as I can afford}, investment returns, advertisement strategies, or anything else...

IMO 4 months salary would be the #, so if someone spent $5K that means at the time they were making around $300 a week, if they followed the 4 months...

As far as the advertising goes, everything is worth what someone will pay for it, we pay all this money for speakers and gear, its not worth that and cheaper stuff will do similar things... the truth of the matter is diamonds are rare and rare things cost money, for example I have a 1.45 d color IF loose diamond, when I bought that stone {for a steal} they only pulled out 3 in comparable size that rated D IF in the last 2 years before I bought it, thats 24 months of mining and diamond work, THREE stones comparable to the one I have... I bought it for about 1/4th of what I can sell it for tomorrow, I sold a lot of my other investment stones or turned them into jewelry for my wife and I have NEVER lost money on one... The 4 stones I spoke about earlier showed a profit over 25K in 12 months, and I really didn't buy them for an investment {maybe I did} but I just knew they were a great deal...

I have debated this with others, and the same points you brought up {plus a few others you missed} come up, but the truth of the matter is, it is a vanity, and the rare type that can show a profit or at least hold its value... There are not many of them.. Watches for example, I feel bad when I see a guy that spends $3K on a watch for himself but his wives ring was $2500, there are a lot of them guys around these parts too...

ANYWAY we got way off track here, this started from watches, then went to pdawgs wives ring and then here... I think greg should buy his wife another ring that reflects his current financial situation, I have yet to see the woman who doesn't like new jewelry, although like I said before, me and my wife attend and throw some swanky parties where we all play dress up, lol... Right or wrong we like to feel like rock stars, and my wife wearing 150K in jewelry adds to the night, I can tell it makes her glow even more than normal... Although we went to a party about 2 weeks ago {a friend of ours daughters engagement party} and my wife wore a simple pearl necklace with matching bracelet and a single ring and band and she still looked like a movie star, lol...

As the old saying goes, "when the game is over the king goes into the same box as the pawns" so why not spend and enjoy your money now, I just like the thought of leaving the kids a little something, so spending it on booze and expensive prostitutes is out...

 

[ImcLoud]

Wasn't such a good investment for Kris Humphries.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/kris-humphries-auctions-kim-kardashians-648944?mobile_redirect=false

That was a pretty good investment, he paid less than it sold for!!! I read an article saying the ring set cost $721K, they sold it for more than that... The agreement was he paid for the stones and the settings and work was free for the publicity, thats why when it sold it did the money it did, plus the $721K he paid was for 2 rings they only sold one for 750K-ish... I am sure that ring was parted out, someone bought the setting, and the 3 stones went into 3 really nice rings... Its a money game...
Believe it or not, the higher priced better quality stones sell MUCH easier than the cheap ones... For instance I have 5 stones all between 1.25-1.65 ct all g-h color, and all in the SI rating neighborhood, not bad stones by any means but nothing worth sending to GIA for grading, I bought them because there were 3 stones I did want and were worth getting graded, so in the end them 5 were free, but them stones are what you would find in a $5K ring, so in theory I could buy 5 $300 settings, spend another $75 each getting them mounted and have 5-5K$ rings, but its not that easy, them stones are on the card for around $4K+ each yet it would take years to sell them for $2K each!!! Because there are so MANY in that area, a lot of stones are graded H SI2, vs a few a year are graded D VS-anything....

 

[Steve81]

OK, so I already said my wife would be happy with anything, she has the extravagant jewelry because I feel she deserves it and I have the money to buy it...

And that's A-OK by me. If you've got a 600K gun collection, hot rods worth 80K, etc., you've obviously got a fair amount of disposable income and can afford to splurge on jewelry for your wife. OTOH, most guys pulling $60K a year simply don't have the disposable funds to save $20K (4 months salary) for a ring. No offense, but I think you've lost perspective on what 4 months gross salary means to most people.

You can't argue that spending $20K is "crazy" when you spent $5K?

No worries, I didn't spend 5K. And I'm not saying that spending $20K is crazy. However, for the vast majority of folks, I think your 4 months salary idea is an unwise use of funds.

If it was not about money why not get your wife a $90 band with a $5 CZ stone mounted in it?

It's not about an arbitrary amount of money, but what my wife wants still enters the equation. That door also swings both ways. I asked for an inexpensive tungsten ring, and that's what I got. Of course, if my wife had demanded a ring worth 4 months gross salary, I think I would have just laughed at her.

 

[ImcLoud]

And that's A-OK by me. If you've got a 600K gun collection, hot rods worth 80K, etc., you've obviously got a fair amount of disposable income and can afford to splurge on jewelry for your wife. OTOH, most guys pulling $60K a year simply don't have the disposable funds to save $20K (4 months salary) for a ring. No offense, but I think you've lost perspective on what 4 months gross salary means to most people.


No worries, I didn't spend 5K. And I'm not saying that spending $20K is crazy. However, for the vast majority of folks, I think your 4 months salary idea is an unwise use of funds.


It's not about an arbitrary amount of money, but what my wife wants still enters the equation. That door also swings both ways. I asked for an inexpensive tungsten ring, and that's what I got. Of course, if my wife had demanded a ring worth 4 months gross salary, I think I would have just laughed at her.

Obviously I am the exception to the rule, my wifes jewelry is far beyond what I clear in 17 weeks but i see it as an investment {may not be the right word since it implies the expectation of a profit, where I really don't, I am sure it is all worth more than I paid, but will it keep up with inflation, I don't know?}. I know that there are different parts of this country that deal with money differently, here there are a lot of couples in their mid to late 20's that already are in a good financial positions..
I went to a wedding this summer where the bride and groom {27 years old-ish} have owned their home together for 3 years {I sold the brides father the land a while back}, and already are ready for their next one, at the wedding they sat at my table to talk to me about a 3800sq ft craftsman I built in 2010 {I don't own it but its for sale privately}, they were talking about paying cash after they sell their home that they owe very little on, so I know for a fact that 3800 sq ft house is over $600K, theirs is worth about 275K, so that means they have over a quarter million in the bank before they are 30!!!
This is getting more and more common for some reason, around here anyway.... My little brother is mid 20's lives in a 3/4 million dollar home, works construction for a private company and owns a landscaping company, he also owns a pair of 3 families but them are only in the equity profit stage, it will be another 4 or 5 years before they show liquid.... Some young people are really getting the hang of making money, its weird to see these hard working 40 and 50 somethings struggle and people from 25-39 surpassing them in short amounts of time...

Money is a fickle bitch, I know people say it makes no difference in anything, but it sure is nice...

 

[Adam]

"A diamond is forever."

 

[ParadigmDawg]

You should spend at least 4 months salary{not take home}.

Ha, I would never spend that on a ring...It's just silly. My ring is tungsten and it's plenty nice for me. My wife picked her ring out and it's nice too. We are way beyond showing off jewelry at this point of our lives.

Now when I was young, I likely would have bought my wife a nice and expensive ring...oh wait...I did and the wife and the ring left one day and after many years, I replaced them both with much smarter choices....