Finally time to replace my processor, need one without constant annoyances

[Chacranajxy]

So, I bought Emotiva's UMC-1 three years ago, and while it does a good job when it works properly, it's usually a pain in the ass. Sometimes, it's the blasts of static noise the thing outputs when it's changing signals, other times, it's the seemingly endless HDMI handshake issues. In any case, I can safely say that without exaggeration, it's the worst piece of audio equipment I've ever used. So, I figured it's time to chuck it and get something that actually works.

There are a few annoyances in particular that I want to avoid in a new processor:

1) Delay when changing signals. This is my number one pet peeve, and something I'd like to avoid. I hate it when a receiver/processor cuts off the beginning of a song because it has to figure its poop out. It should just work. My UMC-1 also has a nasty habit of doing this every time there's a few seconds of silence. It's infuriating particularly when playing games, and there's no excuse for it.

2) I'd like to be able to pass the video signal through without any nonsense. I don't need or want an overlay. I don't need 4k upscaling or anything extraneous that's just going to degrade the picture -- just show me what the source is outputting.

3) A terrible, unresponsive UI. When I press a button on the remote, the thing should respond. The menus should be designed so that you can actually use them.


Really, I'm just looking for a no-nonsense processor that's going to give me great, accurate audio and video, and none of the bullshit the UMC-1 does. I'd like to keep the price under $1500, if possible. This will be paired with an Emotiva XPA-2 amp (which, unlike the UMC-1, has served me quite well.)

What are my best bets here?

 

[fuzz092888]

Personally I like the Denon/Marantz offerings. Yamaha and Pio also make good stuff. If you're only looking for the basics you can get it done for less than $1500 depending on exactly what your needs are.

For number 1, are you talking about a second or two delay when switching between inputs? If so I've experienced that with just about every receiver or processor I've had. If you're talking about something else, you may or may not get that.

As far as the video looking right, you can always bypass the upscaling or passthrough with most of the brands I just mentioned.

As far as UI's go, I think D&M have a really good one. I've been nothing but happy with their UI and menu layout.

 

[Chacranajxy]

Personally I like the Denon/Marantz offerings. Yamaha and Pio also make good stuff. If you're only looking for the basics you can get it done for less than $1500 depending on exactly what your needs are.

For number 1, are you talking about a second or two delay when switching between inputs? If so I've experienced that with just about every receiver or processor I've had. If you're talking about something else, you may or may not get that.

As far as the video looking right, you can always bypass the upscaling or passthrough with most of the brands I just mentioned.

As far as UI's go, I think D&M have a really good one. I've been nothing but happy with their UI and menu layout.

The delay I'm talking about is when, for example, you're on a blu-ray's menu, and the sound is in stereo, and when you start the movie or show or whatever, the sound switches over to TrueHD or DTS-MA. The UMC-1 takes a few seconds to figure that out, so the beginning of it gets cut out. It's particularly obnoxious with TV series where this leads to cutting off the beginning of the intro song or the cold opening.


If there's a delay switching between two different sources, that's completely fine. I expect that, and it's not bothersome.

 

[fuzz092888]

I get what you're saying now. That does happen sometimes even with the best processors. I have a Marantz 8801, which is no slouch and it still happens occasionally. I don't recall experiencing it very often with BD's or sources like that, but used to happen fairly often with cable boxes. I'm not sure where or why in the signal chain it was happening, but it wasn't super long, maybe a second/second and a half. It was more obvious with DVR recordings than with live TV if I recall correctly. I have no experience with Emo products, so I can't say whether your experience with any other processor or receiver will be better, but I've been nothing but happy with the receivers and processors I've had.

 

[herbu]

The delay I'm talking about is when, for example, you're on a blu-ray's menu, and the sound is in stereo, and when you start the movie or show or whatever, the sound switches over to TrueHD or DTS-MA. The UMC-1 takes a few seconds to figure that out, so the beginning of it gets cut out. It's particularly obnoxious with TV series where this leads to cutting off the beginning of the intro song or the cold opening.

Hmmm. I've seen it on blu-rays w/ my Oppo & Denon X4000, but it's never long enough to "cut out" any content. For TV, we use Dish Satellite. Sometimes when changing channels, I can see the format change on the AVR panel, but I have never noticed that it "cut out" any content. Don't do games, so don't know about that.

 

[TLS Guy]

You will have some annoyance due to HDMI handshake issues. There will be delays on changing inputs, because of the repeater architecture. HDMI is not a simple connection like the good old days. There are handshakes going to and fro between device, pre/pro or receiver and the screen. This involves some latency. This latency will not only involve the pre/pro but the peripherals and the the TV.

Now all this devices are virtually all low budget Linux computers and varying response speeds.

I can tell you as the owner of quite a few devices, that performance speed is all over the map. There is I have noted a correlation between higher and lower end, with cheaper BD boxes being slow, and also TV DVRs to an extent.

I use a Marantz 8003 in my main system and this is older now and I really like it. It is very stable. All systems are pretty fast with acceptable latency. My BD is OPPO, and the TV a high end Panasonic. The least latency comes from my built and designed HTPC, which is much faster than anything else. So that tells me a lot of latency comes from the peripherals. In my two other systems I use cheaper Panasonic BD. Latency is noticeable longer but tolerable

As far as Pre/pros. I have a Marantz 8003 and it is very stable. Video and audio is excellent. One other system is a vintage electronic system largely with work arounds, but actually performs very well with low latency.

The other system is build round a Marantz 7003, just under 2 years old. You can see Marantz starting to decline from financial sqeeze. Subs do not work in two channel mode, so you have to use a third channel, or trick it into thinking there is one. It otherwise performs well, except it is not entirely stable. Settings seem to change for no good reason, especially the trigger settings, which is annoying.

Last week the batteries in the remote started to get low, and that really made some false commands and changed settings. In fact it caused havoc, and took me almost two hours to sort it all out. This is all part of the sign to me that as this industry contracts things are going to hell.

I'm already researching for when my 8003 finally fails. My plan is to build my own pre/pro. Some have done this already, but it is a steep climb and not cheap at the moment.

Unfortunately I expect equipment to get more expensive if it is any good, in fact I expect gear that is really any good to get mega expensive, and the cheaper stuff to get to be largely an exercise in frustration.

One piece of evidence. We have a thread about a Denon 200 that shuts down at the preferred level of the owner, where an old Sony does not. Denon say he is overtaxing their junk. A sign of the times unfortunately.

I'm becoming more convinced we are heading back to the 1950s when if you wanted decent good performing gear, you built it yourself. These enthusiasts often when on to found the finest audio companies the world has ever known.

Philosophically, I have never left that era. I know some will feel that strange, but I return to that ethos, would likely be the best thing that could happen to this hobby.

 

[Chacranajxy]

Hmmm. I've seen it on blu-rays w/ my Oppo & Denon X4000, but it's never long enough to "cut out" any content. For TV, we use Dish Satellite. Sometimes when changing channels, I can see the format change on the AVR panel, but I have never noticed that it "cut out" any content. Don't do games, so don't know about that.

I mean, that sounds like what I want.

I think the companies I'm considering so far are Denon, Yamaha, and Integra.

 

[herbu]

The other system is build round a Marantz 7003, just under 2 years old.

Last week the batteries in the remote started to get low, and that really made some false commands and changed settings. In fact it caused havoc, and took me almost two hours to sort it all out. This is all part of the sign to me that as this industry contracts things are going to hell.

That would be aggravating. On my Denon, when the remote batteries start to get low, a message box appears on the TV every time I use the remote. "Remote batteries are low". I don't think it has ever inadvertently changed a setting.

 

[rnatalli]

I'll throw the Anthem MRX 510 (or 310 if you only need 5 channels) into the mix. It doesn't have as many bells and whistles like a Denon or Yamaha, but has it where it counts in the audio quality as ARC is great. With regards to your specific questions:

1.This was an issue with the MRX line until the 1.2.1 update.
2.The MRX line does have a passthrough setting and all reviews of its handling of video have been excellent.
3.The menu isn't terribly fancy, but it's very easy to use, flexible, and very responsive.

The other nice thing is that you don't have to re-take measurements if you have the reset the unit for whatever reason. Just upload the ARC file and you're back in business. That is one thing that always drove me crazy about other units was sometimes after updating, you would have to do a hard reset and re-take measurements which can be painful. The MRX will even match your EMO aesthetically.

I did a review of my 310 a while back found here in case it's helpful:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/anthem-mrx-310-receiver-review.89261/

 

[j_garcia]

UMC-200 is pretty problem free. Aside from a component level failure in mine, I've had no problems with it since the first firmware update released.

 

[darien87]

I had the UMC-1 and also ditched it due to all the quirks. I recently got the XMC-1, (as I was unhappy with a Marantz AV7005), and so far I REALLY like it. One thing you have to say about the UMC-1 is that it sounded great and the XMC is even better. But you're right it really was a pain in the ass with the audio drops and other random weird things it would do. The XMC is MUCH more stable. I still get about a half a second of no audio when starting up the first song of a CD but it's not as bad as the UMC was.

I would recommend the XMC, especially if you still have your 40% off card. But I can certainly understand if the UMC left a sour taste in your mouth. Frankly I'm surprised you stuck with it this long.

 

[Chacranajxy]

I'll throw the Anthem MRX 510 (or 310 if you only need 5 channels) into the mix. It doesn't have as many bells and whistles like a Denon or Yamaha, but has it where it counts in the audio quality as ARC is great. With regards to your specific questions:

1.This was an issue with the MRX line until the 1.2.1 update.
2.The MRX line does have a passthrough setting and all reviews of its handling of video have been excellent.
3.The menu isn't terribly fancy, but it's very easy to use, flexible, and very responsive.

The other nice thing is that you don't have to re-take measurements if you have the reset the unit for whatever reason. Just upload the ARC file and you're back in business. That is one thing that always drove me crazy about other units was sometimes after updating, you would have to do a hard reset and re-take measurements which can be painful. The MRX will even match your EMO aesthetically.

I did a review of my 310 a while back found here in case it's helpful:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/anthem-mrx-310-receiver-review.89261/

Interesting. But wouldn't it be kinda... wasteful to pair a receiver with an amp? I'm not sure if spending that kind of money on a straight-up processor would net me better quality components, like the DAC, for example.

 

[fuzz092888]

Interesting. But wouldn't it be kinda... wasteful to pair a receiver with an amp? I'm not sure if spending that kind of money on a straight-up processor would net me better quality components, like the DAC, for example.

Nope it would not. Getting a standalone processor doesn't necessarily net you better components at all. Receivers work perfectly well as processors.

 

[GranteedEV]

Not gonna pretend I have any experience with it, but the product near the top of my interest-list is this one:

http://www.trinnov.com/products/high-end/altitude32/introduction-altitude32/introduction-4/

Of course, I'm probably gonna pick up the new Yamaha, Emotiva, or Marantz <_<

 

[darien87]

Nope it would not. Getting a standalone processor doesn't necessarily net you better components at all. Receivers work perfectly well as processors.

Sure it's wasteful. Unless your receiver allows you to turn off its internal amps you're wasting that power. Why pay for something you're not using?

Whether or not a receiver has better internals than a processor is another question.

 

[fuzz092888]

Sure it's wasteful. Unless your receiver allows you to turn off its internal amps you're wasting that power. Why pay for something you're not using?

Whether or not a receiver has better internals than a processor is another question.

So paying hundreds to thousands more for comparable standalone processor is worth it over buying a cheaper receiver with preouts that has the same feature set? I'm not seeing it. Nor have any of the receivers I've owned and used as processors drawn more or that much more power than the 8801 draws on its own.

 

[GIEGAR]

Interesting. But wouldn't it be kinda... wasteful to pair a receiver with an amp? I'm not sure if spending that kind of money on a straight-up processor would net me better quality components, like the DAC, for example.

I'm sure the manufacturers would love us to think a processor necessarily has better quality bits (and some probably do), but combined they don't make enough difference for us to reliably distinguish anyway.

Nope it would not. Getting a standalone processor doesn't necessarily net you better components at all. Receivers work perfectly well as processors.

Yes!

Chacranajxy: I reckon the Denon AVR-4520CI would make a terrific, full featured pre/pro for <$1500. Top-of-the-line Audyssey, numerous amp assign configurations, 32 bit architecture, Made in Japan.

Open Box at Crutchfield ($1440): http://www.crutchfield.com/p_033AV4520C/Denon-AVR-4520CI.html?cc=02&o=d&tp=179
Factory Refurbished at Accessories4less ($1000): http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...-flagship-home-theater-receiver-150wpc/1.html
Used - Like New via Amazon ($1050): http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B0092KZCKC/ref=olp_fsf?ie=UTF8&condition=used

Also, the HDMI InstaPreview function means that all connected HDMI sources have "shaken hands" and are primed to go pronto. As with the majority of mainstream AVR's, the Denon I had was very quick to lock onto and commence decoding a different signal from a particular source. My current Onkyo does too, but announces itself with a solid relay click, which the Denon's don't do.

The much vaunted Marantz AV8801 ($3000 MSRP) shares the same basic digital architecture and is essentially a Denon AVR-4520CI with the power amps removed and the unbalanced preamp section replaced by a balanced one. Balanced connections look cool, but are really only required if you need their noise rejection capability for long cable runs, and/or their higher pre-out voltage is necessary to comfortably drive an amp to full power. (Your Emotiva will be no problem for the Denon.)

Sure it's wasteful. Unless your receiver allows you to turn off its internal amps you're wasting that power.

Eh?
How could it be wasting power? No speakers hooked up > no circuit > no voltage & current > no power. No worries!

Why pay for something you're not using?

Because you're paying 1/2 to 1/3 of the price for the part that you are.

 

[PENG]

Sure it's wasteful. Unless your receiver allows you to turn off its internal amps you're wasting that power. Why pay for something you're not using?

Some Denon AVR has the preamp mode that presumably would turn something off, what exactly it turns off I am not sure. One can use some of the amp channels for the surround channels (height, width, back etc.) and other zones so even if you don't have use for them now, you could do it later. Relative to prepros, you most likely still get more value for the dollar (=actually pay less) due to the economy of scale as manufacturers produce much more AVRs than prepros.

 

[PENG]

Not gonna pretend I have any experience with it, but the product near the top of my interest-list is this one:

http://www.trinnov.com/products/high-end/altitude32/introduction-altitude32/introduction-4/

Of course, I'm probably gonna pick up the new Yamaha, Emotiva, or Marantz <_<

Same here.........

 

[darien87]

Eh?
How could it be wasting power? No speakers hooked up > no circuit > no voltage & current > no power. No worries!

Huh? So if I turn on my stand alone amp but don't connect any speakers to it, it isn't drawing power????? You logic seems kinda flawed there dude.

I only have experience with using one Yamaha receiver as a pre/pro but there was a REMARKABLE difference between it and my first processor as far as background noise. Granted this was about 10 years ago. Now if newer, higher quality receivers can put out as clean a signal as a pre-pro then fine but I still don't see the point in paying for amps that I'm not using.