Denon x2000 shuts off

Nottheonlyjustin

Nottheonlyjustin

Audiophyte
Hello all, I've lurked for awhile, and finally have an issue of my own. I know they aren't the best, but I was able to get ahold of basically the last klipsch icon they had fairly cheap and started with a sony strdh540. Everything worked well despite it being a cheap underpowered receiver.
Recently picked up a refurbished denon x2000 from a accessories4less and it sounds way better, but when it's in stereo listening to music and I get it up to around 80(which is really not practical) it shuts down a song or two in with a slow red blinking light.
Key points that will help in the troubleshooting
-it's well ventilated, open shelf top, even put a small fan on it incase of over heating
-only has shut off while using klipsch kf-28 set to small crossover at 80 with sub
-I've double checked my speaker wire
-Spoke with accessories4less who said it's probably simply running out of power and that if I wanted to run it that loud I need a better receiver, and suggested that biamping might help since I'm only running 5.1
My thoughts are that why would it be shutting down and my old cheap sony didn't if it was a matter of running out of power. Unless the x2000 has discreetly powered channels and the sony didn't?
Any help would be appreciated so I can figure out if I need to send it back. It says there is a 15% restocking fee and I'd have to pay for shipping if they find it not faulty so before I jump the gun if rather explore the options.
Sorry for the long post, if you need any other info let me know, and thanks in advance!
 
speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
Hello all, I've lurked for awhile, and finally have an issue of my own. I know they aren't the best, but I was able to get ahold of basically the last klipsch icon they had fairly cheap and started with a sony strdh540. Everything worked well despite it being a cheap underpowered receiver.
Recently picked up a refurbished denon x2000 from a accessories4less and it sounds way better, but when it's in stereo listening to music and I get it up to around 80(which is really not practical) it shuts down a song or two in with a slow red blinking light.
Key points that will help in the troubleshooting
-it's well ventilated, open shelf top, even put a small fan on it incase of over heating
-only has shut off while using klipsch kf-28 set to small crossover at 80 with sub
-I've double checked my speaker wire
-Spoke with accessories4less who said it's probably simply running out of power and that if I wanted to run it that loud I need a better receiver, and suggested that biamping might help since I'm only running 5.1
My thoughts are that why would it be shutting down and my old cheap sony didn't if it was a matter of running out of power. Unless the x2000 has discreetly powered channels and the sony didn't?
Any help would be appreciated so I can figure out if I need to send it back. It says there is a 15% restocking fee and I'd have to pay for shipping if they find it not faulty so before I jump the gun if rather explore the options.
Sorry for the long post, if you need any other info let me know, and thanks in advance!
How loud is the 80? YOU need to be a bit more specific in that 80 on some receivers may not be that loud. If it is really loud at "80", then it sounds like the amps are clipping and getting too hot. That would at least explain why it shuts off for a few seconds or so. This, is the same exact receiver that I am seriously thinking about ordering myself. However, it could also still be a defective unit. Not probable, but still very possible. I would be interested to see just what is the outcome here. Please keep us ALL posted. Good luck.

Cheers,

Phil
 
M

markw

Audioholic Overlord
Recently picked up a refurbished denon x2000 from a accessories4less and it sounds way better, but when it's in stereo listening to music and I get it up to around 80(which is really not practical) it shuts down a song or two in with a slow red blinking light.
Could you elucidate on the bolded part a bit? Perhaps it senses that it's being pushed close to it's limits and the protection circuit does what it's intended to do.
 
Nottheonlyjustin

Nottheonlyjustin

Audiophyte
How loud is the 80? YOU need to be a bit more specific in that 80 on some receivers may not be that loud. If it is really loud at "80", then it sounds like the amps are clipping and getting too hot. That would at least explain why it shuts off for a few seconds or so. This, is the same exact receiver that I am seriously thinking about ordering myself. However, it could also still be a defective unit. Not probable, but still very possible. I would be interested to see just what is the outcome here. Please keep us ALL posted. Good luck.

Cheers,

Phil
I actually just got off the phone with denon who basically said it's basically tapping out the receivers capabilities. 80 is very loud, when listening to music, but about right for movies. It's never crashed in movies so I guess I'll set the limit at 80 for movies and 75 for music. Then plan on picking up an x4000 soon if I can find a decent deal. For most practical reasons those volume limits I set above are enough, but I like the feeling of having just a little more room to play just incase.

I'm assuming since it's all the same power supply that bi amping wouldn't really give me more juice to the fronts to play with would it?
 
Nottheonlyjustin

Nottheonlyjustin

Audiophyte
Could you elucidate on the bolded part a bit? Perhaps it senses that it's being pushed close to it's limits and the protection circuit does what it's intended to do.
I think that is it. I guess was expecting too much from it since little cheap old Sony pushed it just as loud if not louder at a lower wattage rating. In all honestly 75 is plenty loud enough. The denon does sound better that's for sure though.
 
speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
I actually just got off the phone with denon who basically said it's basically tapping out the receivers capabilities. 80 is very loud, when listening to music, but about right for movies. It's never crashed in movies so I guess I'll set the limit at 80 for movies and 75 for music. Then plan on picking up an x4000 soon if I can find a decent deal. For most practical reasons those volume limits I set above are enough, but I like the feeling of having just a little more room to play just incase.

I'm assuming since it's all the same power supply that bi amping wouldn't really give me more juice to the fronts to play with would it?
I got an email from ebay today showing a Denon AVR-X4000 for ~ $760 with free shipping. That is the best deal I have seen thus far. It sounds like you need more power. So, moving up to the X4000 will certainly help in that regard. Personally, bi-amping the X2000 will NOT make much of a difference. At least, that has been my experience with many of the receivers I have owned in the past. Never hurts to try it and see if it helps-right? Do YOU have a large room? Klipsch speakers are known to be very dynamic. So, the question is how much more dynamic do YOU need the Klipsch speakers to be in your room? Only YOU can really answer that question. At least, to some extent.

Cheers,

Phil
 
Nottheonlyjustin

Nottheonlyjustin

Audiophyte
It's not a large room at all, I'm just a single guy that lives alone with no close neighbors, doing single guy things like listening to music and movies way too loud, hahaha. I think I'll put the x4000 on my list, and at least it has preouts so I can keep stepping up. I've seen that amazon has them for $799 as well right now too. Thanks for the replies, still learning all of this. Started with a old pair of klipsch ultra pc speakers and have slowly been swapping stuff out and upgrading as I go along.
 
speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
It's not a large room at all, I'm just a single guy that lives alone with no close neighbors, doing single guy things like listening to music and movies way too loud, hahaha. I think I'll put the x4000 on my list, and at least it has preouts so I can keep stepping up. I've seen that amazon has them for $799 as well right now too. Thanks for the replies, still learning all of this. Started with a old pair of klipsch ultra pc speakers and have slowly been swapping stuff out and upgrading as I go along.
I am also a single guy with very close neighbors. That means I can NOT crank my set-up too loud at all times. I can, on occasion, crank it a little bit. This is why I am wanting to upgrade myself. Kind of tired of NOT hearing my tv too well. Plus, I love to listen to Pandora. So, yes I fully understand where YOU are coming from. Let us know how is all turns out.

Cheers,

Phil
 
G

GIEGAR

Full Audioholic
..., but when it's in stereo listening to music and I get it up to around 80(which is really not practical) it shuts down a song or two in with a slow red blinking light.
Key points that will help in the troubleshooting
-it's well ventilated, open shelf top, even put a small fan on it incase of over heating
-only has shut off while using klipsch kf-28 set to small crossover at 80 with sub
-I've double checked my speaker wire
-Spoke with accessories4less who said it's probably simply running out of power and that if I wanted to run it that loud I need a better receiver, and suggested that biamping might help since I'm only running 5.1
This is unusual. Just check your Subwoofer Mode setting. If it's set to LFE+Main, bass from the mains below the crossover frequency is re-directed to the sub. But I believe the mains still get the full range signal, even though they're set to small. I think this is Denon's way of achieving "Double Bass", but I could be wrong.

Also, that's not in "Multi Channel Stereo" mode is it? At high volumes with multiple speakers, this will be too much for many mid-tier AVR's.
How loud is the 80? YOU need to be a bit more specific in that 80 on some receivers may not be that loud.
On an Audyssey calibrated Denon, 80 (absolute) = 0dB (relative) or "Reference Level". This equates to theoretical peaks approaching 105dBSPL per channel, at the listening position. For two speakers and a sub playing a coherent signal, this can result in program peaks approaching 110dBSPL at the listening position (assuming no power compression). So... VERY LOUD, particularly with recent music recording practices.

It's not a large room at all, I'm just a single guy that lives alone with no close neighbors, doing single guy things like listening to music and movies way too loud, hahaha. I think I'll put the x4000 on my list, and at least it has preouts so I can keep stepping up. I've seen that amazon has them for $799 as well right now too. Thanks for the replies, still learning all of this. Started with a old pair of klipsch ultra pc speakers and have slowly been swapping stuff out and upgrading as I go along.
With your loud listening preference and domestic situation, I think you should consider setting yourself another course rather than churning your X2000 for the X4000. (The power increase only equates to an extra 1 to 2dB anyway.)

Instead, I would start looking into genuine high sensitivity speakers that trade-off unnecessary (with subs) low end extension for greater sensitivity. Each additional 3dB of sensitivity will, on average, halve the power required to play at a given volume. A speaker with 10dB greater sensitivity than another will subjectively sound twice as loud on the same power; or require 10x less power to play at the same volume. Combine high sensitivity with high power handling and fairly benign impedance, and you have a speaker that can be driven cleanly to very loud levels with mid-tier AVR power. A good quality sub (or two) capable of high output is mandatory at all times though. Here are just a few examples to check out:

Pi Speakers Three Pi
Power Sound Audio MTM-210
Reaction Audio CX-10
JTR Single 8HT and Noesis 228HT

An excellent option if DIY "assemble it yourself" is a possibilty:

DIY Sound Group Elusive 1099

And seeing WAF isn't an issue (yet) :D, a budget surprise from the pro-sound world:

Behringer Eurolive B215XL


Be carefull and look after those ears though. ;)
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
You definitely need a SPL meter. All audiophiles should own one. Just use it to see how LOUD it really is. Set it to C-weight, Slow, and set range to 80-120dB. :D

The KF-28 is spec @ 98dB/2.83v/m, but it's probably more like 90dB. If listening distance is 3 meters, sensitivity is ~ 90dB, max volume is 105dB from 2 speakers (each speaker 103dB), and if minimum impedance goes down to 4 ohms in the bass region (although nominal is 8 ohms), then it would require 143W into 8 ohms and 286W into 4 ohms, which is probably a lot more power than what the X2000 can output.

If you listen that LOUD (WHY ? :eek:), then you need to get an AVR with pre-out (like Denon X4000) so you can use an external amp.
 
Nottheonlyjustin

Nottheonlyjustin

Audiophyte
Be carefull and look after those ears though. ;)
thank you! I definitely see some DIY projects in my future. My dad has a really old kenwood and speakers that he paid a few grand for sitting in his closet forever and I recently thought about seeing if they still work or what it would take to get them back in top condition.
I think I'm going to at least pick up a receiver that has preouts first thing, and just set the volume limit on the x2000 for now at 77.5
 
Nottheonlyjustin

Nottheonlyjustin

Audiophyte
You definitely need a SPL meter. All audiophiles should own one. Just use it to see how LOUD it really is. Set it to C-weight, Slow, and set range to 80-120dB. :D

The KF-28 is spec @ 98dB/2.83v/m, but it's probably more like 90dB. If listening distance is 3 meters, sensitivity is ~ 90dB, max volume is 105dB from 2 speakers (each speaker 103dB), and if minimum impedance goes down to 4 ohms in the bass region (although nominal is 8 ohms), then it would require 143W into 8 ohms and 286W into 4 ohms, which is probably a lot more power than what the X2000 can output.

If you listen that LOUD (WHY ? :eek:), then you need to get an AVR with pre-out (like Denon X4000) so you can use an external amp.
Haha while I do listen loud and lots of of heavy metal, (which I can assume is more demanding than some other types of music) it's mostly a case of -I wanted to see of I could, rather than I should go that loud. Definitely will be spl meter, and going to grab a receiver that has preouts for better future upgrades and expansion. For the moment I'll just set my volume limit at 77.5 for movie watching and keep it no higher than 75 for music.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
This is unusual. Just check your Subwoofer Mode setting. If it's set to LFE+Main, bass from the mains below the crossover frequency is re-directed to the sub. But I believe the mains still get the full range signal, even though they're set to small. I think this is Denon's way of achieving "Double Bass", but I could be wrong.
I do believe you are wrong on this, and that is unusual because you seem to be bang on just about everything else. For so called "double bass" setting, you do need to set it to "LFE+Main" and the Main to "Large". If main is set to small, bass get redirected regardless.
 
G

GIEGAR

Full Audioholic
I do believe you are wrong on this, and that is unusual because you seem to be bang on just about everything else. For so called "double bass" setting, you do need to set it to "LFE+Main" and the Main to "Large". If main is set to small, bass get redirected regardless.
Yes thank you PENG, I got that completely boxed up. :oops: I appreciate the correction.

LFE+Main is only relevant for mains set to Large, and therefore not relevant to the OP's situation.

I do continue to wonder though why the Denon seemingly only shut down in stereo mode with mains set to Small. Usually it would be running full range that would cause more trouble for AVR's. Perhaps the OP was actually running in Direct mode? In which case, no bass management is in effect.
 
Nottheonlyjustin

Nottheonlyjustin

Audiophyte
Yes thank you PENG, I got that completely boxed up. :oops: I appreciate the correction.

LFE+Main is only relevant for mains set to Large, and therefore not relevant to the OP's situation.

I do continue to wonder though why the Denon seemingly only shut down in stereo mode with mains set to Small. Usually it would be running full range that would cause more trouble for AVR's. Perhaps the OP was actually running in Direct mode? In which case, no bass management is in effect.
It's happened with music stereo, and music virtual.
 
Nottheonlyjustin

Nottheonlyjustin

Audiophyte
Also, 16 gauge wire wouldn't make a difference would it? It's what I'm using, and wondered if 14 or under would be better.
 
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