Bicycles: Hazard or Traffic?

[Sheep]

Thanks Sheep. That was said with much more tact that I would have been able to muster this morning.

I know eh? Who'dve thought.

SheepStar

 

[markw]

Where I live I don't believe you can claim against cycling damage, so jokes on him. Shut your door if there is cars/bikes/anything coming past you. If you were driving down a narrow street and someone had their door open, you'd be pissed, and probably ram it because you drive a big truck and everyone should bow to you.

You make it sound like drivers just sit in wait for a cyclist to come by before flinging open a car door. Trust me, I doubt anyone does that. A driver should to be in control of his vehicle, be it four wheels or only two.

Now, if he opened his car door into the side of a passing bike than you might have a case but, from what I saw, he didn't fling he door open. It was already open and the guy was just starting to get out when the lone cyclist hit it. A second or so later and the guy exiting the car might have been injured. The cyclist should have been more aware of what was going on in front of him and either slowed down, stopped, or changed his direction.

Oh, it's nice that you just "assume" I drive a big truck. I don't. Should I assume that you keep company with moose?

 

[Sheep]

You make it sound like drivers just sit in wait for a cyclist to come by before flinging open a car door. Trust me, I doubt anyone does that. A driver should to be in control of his vehicle, be it four wheels or only two.

Now, if he opened his car door into the side of a passing bike than you might have a case but, from what I saw, he didn't fling he door open. It was already open and the guy was just starting to get out when the lone cyclist hit it. A second or so later and the guy exiting the car might have been injured. The cyclist should have been more aware of what was going on in front of him and either slowed down, stopped, or changed his direction.

Once again, you're speaking from the dark. I have been riding up a street full of parked cars for the past 3 years, and every day I'm avoiding doors. Maybe your situation differs, but the majority of people don't look before opening. They are talking about expanding the bike lanes here because they can't provide enough room for cyclists when people swing open their door. I'd rather have people not blindly open their door then take up more road way for bikes that don't require the space. Speaking of which, there is laws regarding the amount of passing room you're supposed to give cyclists, at least here in BC. Bicycles fall under the motor vehicle act here which gives them full rights to the road. I think it was last week, I was crossing at a light where the bike path and sidewalk are combined. This means I crossed when the signal goes, not when it's clear. It was dark, and my bike is black, and so was the clothing I was wearing. I could have mugged someone I was pretty Ninja'd out. BUT, I have a very bright, flashing light on the front pointed at peoples faces so they know I am there, or coming. Light changes, I get the go ahead, and someone coming from the other direction, with headlights on, tries to turn right in front of me. Sees me last second, and leans out yelling "I can't see you, you're wearing black". This is the kind of stupid you come across EVERY day riding.

SheepStar

 

[Sheep]

Oh, it's nice that you just "assume" I drive a big truck. I don't. Should I assume that you keep company with moose?

Oh Yeah, next time you're up go hang out with them. You are not aware the moose are insanely dangerous right? Good.

I just pictured a truck to fit the image of yourself you cast. The fact that you don't makes it worse. Macho in a Geo.

SheepStar

 

[markw]

So, you like the rough stuff, eh?

Sorry, down here we don't judge people by he kind oar they drive. But, we can drive every day of the month, not just six.

And, wearing black while biking at night is what Darwin would call natural selection.

 

[Sheep]

So, you like the rough stuff, eh?

Sorry, down here we don't judge people by he kind oar they drive. But, we can drive every day of the month, not just six.

And, wearing black while biking at night is what Darwin would call natural selection.

I guess you missed the point there, I was using a shared cross walk. Pedestrians and cycles both use it, and I've never seen a pedestrian restricted to a certain type of clothing because it's not as visible to a car. I've also not seen many pedestrians with flashing lights.

But you're right, all business attire should be this from now on, so we can avoid these pesky situations again.

SheepStar

 

[adk highlander]

Sheep, I have had to give up to some extent on this thread because I get so fired up about the same things you are talking about today. Like you said if you don't ride you will not understand. The comment I have found that seems to wake a few people up is when I get a chance to talk to someone that thinks its fun to push a cyclist off the road or laugh if they get his to to think "What if I was your son or you father?" That at least gets them to think and realize we are human beings and in any situation we are the ones that will loose if there is an accident. In New York we do have similar laws to what you are talking about. A car is supposed to give us 3 feet. What I find mind numbing is that is a car is pulled to the shoulder a car will go in the other lane to go around it but a bike many seem to try and see how close they can come. Mark and herbu come and ride with us once and maybe you will see where we are coming from. The difference is I drive and understand how it can be frustrating if a cyclist goes through a stop sign or a large group is blocking traffic. But, you have no idea what is like to get buzzed at 50+ by a vehicle.

 

[Sheep]

Sheep, I have had to give up to some extent on this thread because I get so fired up about the same things you are talking about today. Like you said if you don't ride you will not understand. The comment I have found that seems to wake a few people up is when I get a chance to talk to someone that thinks its fun to push a cyclist off the road or laugh if they get his to to think "What if I was your son or you father?" That at least gets them to think and realize we are human beings and in any situation we are the ones that will loose if there is an accident. In New York we do have similar laws to what you are talking about. A car is supposed to give us 3 feet. What I find mind numbing is that is a car is pulled to the shoulder a car will go in the other lane to go around it but a bike many seem to try and see how close they can come. Mark and herbu come and ride with us once and maybe you will see where we are coming from. The difference is I drive and understand how it can be frustrating if a cyclist goes through a stop sign or a large group is blocking traffic. But, you have no idea what is like to get buzzed at 50+ by a vehicle.

I hear ya. The other part they are missing is the riders high you get, especially if you ride regularly. Talk about the best drug on the planet, I submit most if not all cases of depression can be cured by regular bicycle rides of 10 or so kms. Leg muscles have the greatest control over your body when it comes to the release of chemicals to aid in work outs, that's why you warm up before lifting. It also works wonders on your personal mood. You end up getting away from computers and forums starting threads about groups of people, and you instead go outside and enjoy life.

SheepStar

 

[markw]

ADK, I have friends who ride bikes an motorcycles and I do agree it has it's danger and yes, there ARE some true asholes behind the wheel. Operative word here is "some".

But, by the same token, there are some cyclists who are just as big an ashole as some four wheelers.

I've seen motorcycles weaving in and out of heavy, slow moving traffic at high rates of speed and, if it were not for the skill and quick reflexes of the four wheel drivers would be roadkill, and deservedly so. Likewise, bikes doing the same thing in stop and go city traffic. Their ability to come from out of nowhere and then suddenly appear in front of a driver is both a blessing and, if their timing is off, a curse. And, I've seen packs of bikers in spandex hogging both lanes in the city park fairly often.

And that bozo that crashed into that car door was flying down the street close to the line of parked cars. I didn't even see him before the crash and I was looking in that general direction. He pretty much cam out of nowhere

Face it, you guys are small, fast, and harder to see than a two ton hunk o metal. It's on you to be make dang sure you're visible. You've got a lot more to lose.

 

[Sheep]

ADK, I have friends who ride bikes an motorcycles and I do agree it has it's danger and yes, there ARE some true asholes behind the wheel. Operative word here is "some".

But, by the same token, there are some cyclists who are just as big an ashole as some four wheelers.

I've seen motorcycles weaving in and out of heavy, slow moving traffic at high rates of speed and, if it were not for the skill and quick reflexes of the four wheel drivers would be roadkill, and deservedly so. Likewise, bikes doing the same thing in stop and go city traffic. Their ability to come from out of nowhere and then suddenly appear in front of a driver is both a blessing and, if their timing is off, a curse. And, I've seen packs of bikers in spandex hogging both lanes in the city park fairly often.

And that bozo that crashed into that car door was flying down the street close to the line of parked cars. I didn't even see him before the crash and I was looking in that general direction. He pretty much cam out of nowhere

Face it, you guys are small, fast, and harder to see than a two ton hunk o metal. It's on you to be make dang sure you're visible. You've got a lot more to lose.

And we both agree with you. A lot of the people I see are not bad, but there is some out there that smear the entire image of bicycles because of their behavior. I cuss out just as many riders as I do pedestrians and cars. No one is safe from my wrath when I nearly die because of their actions. The problem is that it's almost OK to have this general hatred towards cyclists, when it's not every cyclist out there. That outlook turns the idea of having cycle lanes and more integration into the road network (or better yet, paths away from the roads) a negative light in the uninformed eye. Bicycles would rather be on a smooth paved path running through a forest beside ponds and water with lots of hot women jogging around. Trust me, I don't like being beside cars any more then cars like being beside bikes.

SheepStar

 

[herbu]

Only part of that post that is relevant. You don't get it, because you don't do it. Until you actually start riding seriously, and near traffic, pedestrians, trains etc etc, you won't get why we do it.

I'm sorry the point of my post was not clear. Please let me try again. I am prejudiced. I am prejudiced against discourtesy and irresponsibility. Unfortunately, they seem to be on the increase. I see it in cyclists, drivers, bikers, children, and almost any category or group of people you can name. When someone demands the full measure of their consideration, with no regard to the consideration of others, the scene is set for an unpleasant situation.

So yes, I suppose I did get off the exclusive topic of cyclists. If that bothered you, I'm sorry. My point was to illustrate that the confrontational attitude I see from some cyclists is, in my opinion, symptomatic of a more general degredation in society.

I'm not sure what you think I don't get because I don't do it. My wife and I do cycle sometimes. Just for fun and exercise. Not for transportation. I'm not sure how courtesy on the road is different if you're cycling to work or cycling for fun. Perhaps you were branching into a different topic of endorphins and the benefits of exercise. If so, it's OK. Doesn't bother me.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

Just for the record. I love punching motorist in the face when I am on my bike.

I also love punching cyclist in the face when I am in my car....

 

[Sheep]

I'm sorry the point of my post was not clear. Please let me try again. I am prejudiced. I am prejudiced against discourtesy and irresponsibility. Unfortunately, they seem to be on the increase. I see it in cyclists, drivers, bikers, children, and almost any category or group of people you can name. When someone demands the full measure of their consideration, with no regard to the consideration of others, the scene is set for an unpleasant situation.

Ah, that's why the thread is titled "anything in the universe - hazard or traffic." According to the laws where I live, I'm considered a car. I don't like that, because you don't have a license, insurance, or any testing body that governs who can ride. Tickets and offenses are not blanketed to everyone on a bicycle (not going to see a kid get a ticket for riding without a helmet). So I don't like being grouped with cars, I wish I wasn't allowed on roads, and instead had a separate path with only bikes on it to ride everywhere I wanted to go.

So yes, I suppose I did get off the exclusive topic of cyclists. If that bothered you, I'm sorry. My point was to illustrate that the confrontational attitude I see from some cyclists is, in my opinion, symptomatic of a more general degradation in society.

And that's where the problem is. You see bicycles as people who are fighting cars for the road, but it's a shared roadway, it doesn't JUST belong to cars. If you really want to get down to the history of transportation and who has the right to the use of roads, it would go Horses then bicycles, then cars.

I'm not sure what you think I don't get because I don't do it. My wife and I do cycle sometimes. Just for fun and exercise. Not for transportation. I'm not sure how courtesy on the road is different if you're cycling to work or cycling for fun. Perhaps you were branching into a different topic of endorphin and the benefits of exercise. If so, it's OK. Doesn't bother me.

That's what you don't get. You do it when it's convenient, and simple. You don't understand what riding on the road as part of a commute means. Yes, I made the choice to ride to work. Yes, it's cold now and wet. But I have every right to be there, regardless of what drivers think. You're examples of bad riders is well and valid, but it's individuals, not the group as a whole, and you can only attack the people responsible.

SheepStar

 

[herbu]

Ah, that's why the thread is titled "anything in the universe - hazard or traffic." According to the laws where I live, I'm considered a car. I don't like that, because you don't have a license, insurance, or any testing body that governs who can ride. Tickets and offenses are not blanketed to everyone on a bicycle (not going to see a kid get a ticket for riding without a helmet). So I don't like being grouped with cars, I wish I wasn't allowed on roads, and instead had a separate path with only bikes on it to ride everywhere I wanted to go.

And that's where the problem is. You see bicycles as people who are fighting cars for the road, but it's a shared roadway, it doesn't JUST belong to cars. If you really want to get down to the history of transportation and who has the right to the use of roads, it would go Horses then bicycles, then cars.

That's what you don't get. You do it when it's convenient, and simple. You don't understand what riding on the road as part of a commute means. Yes, I made the choice to ride to work. Yes, it's cold now and wet. But I have every right to be there, regardless of what drivers think. You're examples of bad riders is well and valid, but it's individuals, not the group as a whole, and you can only attack the people responsible.

SheepStar

Have a nice day.

 

[GO-NAD!]

I think that went well.

I've considered bicycling to work, but my sense of self-preservation is just too strong, i.e. it would be terrifying. There are bicyclists that commute here, but it won't be me. 15 km - a perfect commuting distance, right? However, there are a couple of loooong steep hills that I really don't care for. Plus, there is one 4-lane intersection to navigate. No biggie - keep to the right and go straight through, eh? Except, there is an on/off ramp right before that intersection, with cars trying to merge left and others trying to exit right - at the same time - with a bicycle trying to go straight through. I'm almost 50 now - my years of being bullet-proof are long behind me. I run for exercise instead.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

I think that went well.

I've considered bicycling to work, but my sense of self-preservation is just too strong, i.e. it would be terrifying. There are bicyclists that commute here, but it won't be me. 15 km - a perfect commuting distance, right? However, there are a couple of loooong steep hills that I really don't care for. Plus, there is one 4-lane intersection to navigate. No biggie - keep to the right and go straight through, eh? Except, there is an on/off ramp right before that intersection, with cars trying to merge left and others trying to exit right - at the same time - with a bicycle trying to go straight through. I'm almost 50 now - my years of being bullet-proof are long behind me. I run for exercise instead.

I turned 50 this year and I assume I will out live my money so the bike may be my "way out"...

That's a joke. Someone told me that I am more likely to die from heart disease or stroke if I don't bike and my chance of dying on my bike is small. I don't know if that's true but it's what I live by. We are as careful as we can be and try to plan great routes.

We ride all the large charity rides and races so there is a lot of traffic control. We also have our training routes down to about as safe as you can get.

Now the Hotter n' Hell ride scared me as I have never been around 15,000 cyclist starting at the same time. Our normal races are 250 people and our charity rides are around 2,500. 15,000 was crazy. We started about mid pack and my bike moved the first inch around 40 minutes after the start canon went off. There was carnage everywhere you looked for the first 30 miles before it started getting spread out.

BTW, the name of the race was correct. When my wife crossed the finish line it was 107.6. It was only 98 when I crossed and I went and had a couple of sandwhiches and more fluids and a beer and then went to the finish line to wait for her. She looked dang near like she was about to die but she did 60 miles, in that heat and all the people and a 20+ mph headwind the last 22 miles. It was freakin brutal.

 

[Rickster71]

I turned 50 this year and I assume I will out live my money so the bike may be my "way out"...

That's a joke. Someone told me that I am more likely to die from heart disease or stroke if I don't bike and my chance of dying on my bike is small. I don't know if that's true but it's what I live by. We are as careful as we can be and try to plan great routes.

We ride all the large charity rides and races so there is a lot of traffic control. We also have our training routes down to about as safe as you can get.

Now the Hotter n' Hell ride scared me as I have never been around 15,000 cyclist starting at the same time. Our normal races are 250 people and our charity rides are around 2,500. 15,000 was crazy. We started about mid pack and my bike moved the first inch around 40 minutes after the start canon went off. There was carnage everywhere you looked for the first 30 miles before it started getting spread out.

BTW, the name of the race was correct. When my wife crossed the finish line it was 107.6. It was only 98 when I crossed and I went and had a couple of sandwhiches and more fluids and a beer and then went to the finish line to wait for her. She looked dang near like she was about to die but she did 60 miles, in that heat and all the people and a 20+ mph headwind the last 22 miles. It was freakin brutal.

That crowd doesn't make it look like fun.
Except for the part you mentioned about beer and sandwiches.

 

[adk highlander]

Just be glad they were all that close before the ride. After in 100+ degree heat I'm sure they were all a bit ripe.

 

[Sheep]

I think that went well.

I've considered bicycling to work, but my sense of self-preservation is just too strong, i.e. it would be terrifying. There are bicyclists that commute here, but it won't be me. 15 km - a perfect commuting distance, right? However, there are a couple of loooong steep hills that I really don't care for. Plus, there is one 4-lane intersection to navigate. No biggie - keep to the right and go straight through, eh? Except, there is an on/off ramp right before that intersection, with cars trying to merge left and others trying to exit right - at the same time - with a bicycle trying to go straight through. I'm almost 50 now - my years of being bullet-proof are long behind me. I run for exercise instead.

That's what it looks like when you lose an argument.

I'm not talking about whether or not you should ride a bike (you should btw), but more the rights behind it.

SheepStar

 

[herbu]

That's what it looks like when you lose an argument.

That's what it looks like when you abandon an argument because the person with whom you are arguing either doesn't read, doesn't comprehend, or choses to ingore your arguments.