My HT system plans so far! Opinions needed

[OdinGOW]

Small 13x11' room, 80/20 movies/music
I know the AVR is overkill for setup/room but I'm also planning on building a house within 1-2 yrs and want something that can handle a larger space down the road.

-Polk monitor 70's (was going to get 75's but others have said they are the same)
-Matching Polk centre
-Undecided rear surround speakers, will see what Black Friday brings.... 300$ budget/pair for these
-SVS PB-1000 sub
-Denon x4000 receiver (hoping its price will drop to around 6-700 for Black Friday with the arrival of newer models. However, I'm wondering if I should go for one with THX, how important is it? I've also strongly considered yamaha rxv777.... Not sure if x4000 would just be pointless overkill....)

After reading this thread I'm now strongly considering the behringer 215xl's which kinda changes everything.... Which is why I'm looking for your opinions...

How would this system fair you think? Should I take a stronger look at the other options I mentioned?

I know there are much better brands than Polk but for 300$/pair for the monitor towers they seem like a good value and starting point. I'm new to all. This and don't really have a biased preference, still finding my audioholics self awareness lol, and I'm trying to make best choices possible based off others experiences. If there are other much better speakers for that price range I'd like to know about it.

And by 3-500$ price range for fronts I don't mean brand new MSRP value because I refuse to pay full price.... I'm talking deals, used, Black Friday ....

Also, what exactly in lamest terms is the difference between ported and sealed subs?

 

[jonnythan]

Once upon a time I had the Monitor 50s and CS2 center. I now have the Pioneer SP-BS22 and SP-C22 and am much happier. The Polks have much more bass extension but if you're putting a PB-1000 in that small space you won't have any bass problems.

The Behringers make no sense for your situation.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The Denon X4000 is an excellent foundation piece. I would call Electronics Expo and see if one of the sales guy would sell you a brand new one for $650. The Denon 4520 has been sold very recently for $1K even at Best Buy, so $650 delivered for the X4000 should be easy. Supplies may not last by late November.

As far as speakers, no Polk.

Look around and see how many people upgrade their systems. Do you see yourself spending money to completely upgrade your system in 2 years?

You might just want to use what you have now and save up for a higher-end system/higher budget for your new house in 1 -2 years.

 

[rojo]

Heya Odin,

The Denon X4000 is a great choice for a receiver. Whatever receiver you choose, I think you can safely ignore THX certification. That certification is little more than clever marketing.

What's your overall budget for LCR speakers and subwoofer(s)? You won't necessarily get better sound from towers than you would from well-designed bookshelf speakers. At the price point you mentioned, the Fluance XLBP would make nice surrounds. I tend to agree with jonnythan that the Andrew Jones Pioneers would be a better sounding setup than the Polks. If we could know your budget, we can make further recommendations. In any case, there's very little wife acceptance factor going for those Behringers. If you're married or ever would like to be, your wife would probably prefer speakers designed for home audio integration rather than pro / industrial.

 

[zieglj01]

Small 13x11' room, 80/20 movies/music

And by 3-500$ price range for fronts I don't mean brand new MSRP value because I refuse to pay full price.... I'm talking deals, used, Black Friday ....

For one on a tight budget and your size room - the AAL [Pioneer modded] speakers is a solid option.
They will be good for both music and movies/tv.
http://philharmonicaudio.com/aa.html

You would have to spend more on average, to compare with the overall quality of these speakers.

 

[OdinGOW]

3-500$ for fronts
500$ for sub (fairly set on svs pb-1000)
6-800$ for receiver
300$ ish for rears

Ill take a look at the other things yall mentioned after work here. Keep in mind im in canada and price ranges include shipping cost....

Did yall actually read the thread on behringers i linked to? They talk about how most automatically steer away from them for HT theatre and reasons why they may actually work and they are great value. Its a lot of info for me to process though, and yes i am married

 

[rojo]

Yeah, email Dennis Murphy at the link zieg mentioned and ask him how much it would cost to ship two AAL monitors and a center to you. Keep the PB-1000 on your list, and the Fluance bipole surrounds I mentioned. I think you'll still be under budget (depending on the shipping quote Dennis gives you), and you'll have a system that's astoundingly better than the Polks you originally considered. If not, maybe shop for a Fluance LCR, or visit a local Paradigm dealer. A dealer might even have a B-stock PW-2200 sub and offer you a package discount if you let him know your budget of $1200 for 5.1 speakers (or $1000 for 3.1, if you'd still like the bipolar surrounds from Fluance). Listening in the store would be a good idea before you buy anyway. Don't forget interconnects, speaker wire, and stands as needed.

 

[shadyJ]

I would run away screaming from the Polks. I would encourage you to look at other brands, my pick in your budget would be Infinity Primus, try the p163s for fronts and surrounds, and a c351 center. They will sound better and cost less. As was mentioned before, there is no need for towers when you are getting a subwoofer, especially in such a modest budget. I would aim for a better sub too. The test results for the PB1000 that I have seen are not that impressive. Very good extension, but it just doesn't get very loud. My picks for a sub in that budget would be either the Hsu VTF2 mk4 or Rythmik LV12r, they don't cost much more but will be higher performers.

The Behringers do look interesting. They look like a great choice for a budget home theater with an acoustically transparent screen. They are an eyesore, but if you can live with that, they might be great. The problem in that system your intended subwoofer is bad match for those Behringer speakers. It only has a small fraction of the dynamic range of speakers like that, it would be like whisper in comparison. It would run into clipping and compression when the Behringers were just getting started. For a tight budget with such powerful speakers, you might think about what can be done in a DIY project. I would be looking at a Martysub or a Stonehenge flatpack. Throw in a Dayton Ultimax 18 driver and a Behringer iNuke 3000, that will have many time the performance of a PB1000 and should be able to keep up with the Behringer speakers. If you do not want to take on a project, I would look at the Reaction PV15x, or, if you can wait a couple months, the new Hsu subs. Neither of those will match a 18" DIY sub like the one I outlined above, but they will still dwarf the PB1000 in performance (and size).

One more thing, you asked about the difference between sealed and ported subs, to put it very simply, ported subs have a lot more output around their tuning point, but very little output below that, whereas a sealed sub won't match the efficiency of a ported sub around its tuning, but will have output below that point. Here is a chart to illustrate the difference:

In a tight budget, it makes more sense to go with ported.

 

[OdinGOW]

Regarding the behringers, well first off thx a lot for ur input on them, if u visit the thread on them i linked to buddy recently posted and actually tested them with the pb1000 and says it worked great, however im definately curious about the options you just mentioned and will have to research em

 

[GranteedEV]

I know there are much better brands than Polk but for 300$/pair for the monitor towers they seem like a good value and starting point.

You can still do better.

Like some Affordable Accuracy Towers @ 275 / pr:

Affordable Accuracy

 

[shadyJ]

Using a PB1000 with Behringer 215xls is like using the spare tires from a Hyundai Excel on a Corvette. The big advantage of the Behringers will be their tremendous dynamic range, of which the PB1000 has very little. No offense, but using a sub with a 10" woofer in a system with 15" midbass drivers is absurd. I would go with subs with 15" drivers at the very least, and not just any 15" sub either. However something like the Pioneer SP or Infinity Primus would not outpace the PB1000 nearly as much, although even then I would still want a better sub. If you don't intend to listen at reference levels, the Behringers will be overkill.

 

[OdinGOW]

The Behringers do look interesting. They look like a great choice for a budget home theater with an acoustically transparent screen. They are an eyesore, but if you can live with that, they might be great. The problem in that system your intended subwoofer is bad match for those Behringer speakers. It only has a small fraction of the dynamic range of speakers like that, it would be like whisper in comparison. It would run into clipping and compression when the Behringers were just getting started. For a tight budget with such powerful speakers, you might think about what can be done in a DIY project. I would be looking at a Martysub or a Stonehenge flatpack. Throw in a Dayton Ultimax 18 driver and a Behringer iNuke 3000, that will have many time the performance of a PB1000 and should be able to keep up with the Behringer speakers. If you do not want to take on a project, I would look at the Reaction PV15x, or, if you can wait a couple months, the new Hsu subs. Neither of those will match a 18" DIY sub like the one I outlined above, but they will still dwarf the PB1000 in performance (and size).

In a tight budget, it makes more sense to go with ported.

Ok so I looked at the DIY option you mentioned and I think I'll hold off on that + Behringers for down the road when I have my own house. The 'man' in me is very tempted by the MORE POWA option, but I think my neighbours in my townhouse and wife would kill me lol. That being said, I am more interested now in a sub that hits all the low end nuances with quality sound over blasting loud bass.... With 4-800$ budget what sub would you recommend? EDIT: I re-read your post and noticed you kinda already answered this, however I'm curious to know if your answer would change knowing my budget is a bit higher and my preference is towards quality over volume...

I'm assuming if I get bookshelves instead of towers the sub would have to be responsible for all the low and mid bass yes? Therefore I don't mind spending a bit more on a better sub, and I don't mind waiting a month or two either..... Like I said I'm still looking for deals tho.

 

[shadyJ]

For up to $800, my sub picks would either a Reaction BPS215, Hsu VTF3 mk4, or SVS PB2000. In a townhouse you will not be able to use any of those to their maximum capability.

The sub is going to be responsible for all the bass whether you get towers or bookshelfs. Since that is the case, you might as well save the money and just get bookshelf speakers, as the only advantage tower speakers have over them is bass extension- bass extension that won't be used in a setup with a subwoofer.

 

[herbu]

The sub is going to be responsible for all the bass whether you get towers or bookshelfs. Since that is the case, you might as well save the money and just get bookshelf speakers, as the only advantage tower speakers have over them is bass extension- bass extension that won't be used in a setup with a subwoofer.

OdinGOW,
Read the quote above. Then read it again. Then again... until it sinks in. I think this is the hardest thing for some people to understand and accept. You don't need a lot of drivers in the cabinet to make a good speaker. Towers are not automatically better than bookshelves. Towers are not automatically louder than bookshelves. Read the frequency response of your consideration for Front L/Rs. Do they go down to 80Hz? 60Hz? 50...40...20Hz? Get a good sub that is specifically designed to handle frequencies below 80-100Hz, and set your crossover appropriately. Then spend your limited budget for fronts that are specifically designed to handle frequencies above 60-80Hz. As your budget increases, so can the depth of your front's freq response if you want.

Fronts that really do a good job from 20-20kHz are not cheap. Fronts that really do a good job from 60-20kHz can be found quite reasonably.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

You can still do better.

Like some Affordable Accuracy Towers @ 275 / pr:

Affordable Accuracy

Okay, Dennis needs to change that name!

"Affordable"?

Maybe something like the "Soloist" T1 for tower, Soloist C1 for center, Soloist B1 for bookshelf.

 

[rojo]

Get a pair of these Fluance XL7S for LR, one of these XL7C for your center channel, and a pair of these XLBP as your surrounds. The whole package is $500 shipped free from Canada I think, and they offer a 30-day in-home trial. Now you've got $700 left to spend on a great sub -- a slightly scuffed SVS PB-2000 for example. Boom.

 

[zieglj01]

The 'man' in me is very tempted by the MORE POWA option, but I think my neighbours in my townhouse and wife would kill me lol. That being said, I am more interested now in a sub that hits all the low end nuances with quality sound over blasting loud bass....

I'm assuming if I get bookshelves instead of towers the sub would have to be responsible for all the low and mid bass yes? Therefore I don't mind spending a bit more on a better sub, and I don't mind waiting a month or two either..... Like I said I'm still looking for deals tho.

Bookshelves are a good option, and work for a lot of us - however, good prices on some good tower
speakers are also a good option - and if you do get good deals, then they can be a better choice >
and you will save on the price of speaker stands - the AA towers is one good example in the USA

Yes, the man in us wants good bass - however bass will travel, and likes to travel through apartments.
It would help to have some good neighbors along with a good wife.

In Canada, keep an eye on Crutchfield Ca
Home Theatre & Audio at Crutchfield.ca

And, Amazon Ca
http://www.amazon.ca/Boston-Acoustics-A25GB-0XX00-Gloss-Black/dp/B004LA96M8/ref=sr_1_20?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1412089917&sr=1-20&keywords=bookshelf+speakers

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

3-500$ for fronts
500$ for sub (fairly set on svs pb-1000)
6-800$ for receiver
300$ ish for rears

Ill take a look at the other things yall mentioned after work here. Keep in mind im in canada and price ranges include shipping cost....

Did yall actually read the thread on behringers i linked to? They talk about how most automatically steer away from them for HT theatre and reasons why they may actually work and they are great value. Its a lot of info for me to process though, and yes i am married

I'm not going to repeat what most of what already been said before, but to enchance their points I think I must to:

a) Any polk, but most expensive LSim series is crap and LSim is WAY too expensive
b) AA speakers would be great entry point to GOOD audio.
c) If you want just go with established brand, FFS get Pioneer NOT POLK
d) the point of going with bookshelf plus better sub makes perfect sense to me. Then properly integrated (correctly set crossover on AVR) - they play like a single unit.
e) with your about $1500-1600 budget - you could get really nice system. Just get stuck on weak spots, like under-spending on speakers and SUB and overspending on receiver.

It's fine if DIY is not possible, maybe a topic for a later day, but with your budget and what I know today I would get this system:

2x pairs of AA's bookshelves and a matching center = 430+shipping = lets say $500
HSU VTF-3 sub - $730 shipped (on sale now)
and this receiver:
DENON AVR-X2000 7.1 Ch 4K Ultra HD Networking Receiver AirPlay | Accessories4less

Trust me - you'll love this system. If they money is tight, you can replace the surrounds with these: Amazon.com: Nxg Pro 4.1 Satellite Speaker (Discontinued by Manufacturer): Electronics and replace the sub to VTF-2 (not on sale, but maybe HSU will be willing to work with you)

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Bookshelves are a good option, and work for a lot of us - however, good prices on some good tower
speakers are also a good option - and if you do get good deals, then they can be a better choice >
and you will save on the price of speaker stands - the AA towers is one good example in the USA

Yes, the man in us wants good bass - however bass will travel, and likes to travel through apartments.
It would help to have some good neighbors along with a good wife.

In Canada, keep an eye on Crutchfield Ca
Home Theatre & Audio at Crutchfield.ca

And, Amazon Ca
http://www.amazon.ca/Boston-Acoustics-A25GB-0XX00-Gloss-Black/dp/B004LA96M8/ref=sr_1_20?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1412089917&sr=1-20&keywords=bookshelf+speakers

I had 12" ported sub in the apartment and not once neighbors complained to me about bass .. just saying, use common sense and get sub isolation pad (or use free packing foam like I did)

 

[OdinGOW]

Ok thx a LOT guys! Truely

Now this is what im thinking based on your input.

-AA bookself L/R + centre
-Fluance XLBP rear surrounds (or would you guys think two more AA bookselves would be better?)
-HSU VTK-3 mk4 sub
-Denon x4000 receiver

How does that look?

Does AA or fluance have blackfeiday sales? What about HSu would it be worth waiting?