Which is the problem: BDP or Receiver?

[whgarrett1394]

Hello Ladies and Gents. Long time voyeur, new member.

I have a problem.

Sony Bdp-BX110 player and Marantz sr5001 receiver. Hooked up via hdmi.

Sony player is set to output pcm so that Dolby TrueHD and DTS Master are decoded internally.

Marantz is set to AUTO.

When i play a blu-ray that has Master Audio 5.1 it works fine. All channels work and are illuminated on the receiver. PCM is also illuminated confirming the player is outputting PCM.

When I play a disc that has TrueHD it does not work. The only speakers that work are the L & R. They are also the only channels illuminated. The PCM is illuminated as well.

When I put the player on auto, the core Dolby and DTS are recognized by the receiver and everything is dandy. Just lossy though.

Do you think it is the player or the Marantz?

Another weird fact is the DTS Master Audio 7.1 discs. I only have two of them. They play fine. Everything lights up, but the center channels fails to work. Both discs. Same thing.

Any help or suggestions or just your 0.02 would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[TLS Guy]

My guess is your receiver is just too old. Since you only have the old lossy Dolby and DTS codecs you have to use PCM. I guess that old receiver does not have a processor up to the task. Time to update I'm afraid.

 

[whgarrett1394]

Thanks for the reply, TLS Guy. I refuse to buy a newer receiver for the moment. If anything I will get a blu ray with multi channel analog output. The frustrating thing is that the receiver does accept multi channel pcm over hdmi. All of my DTS master audio discs work and my High Fidelity Pure Audio blu rays like Beck's Sea Change. That disc is 5.1 at 192khz/24bit. The only discs that don't work are the Dolby TrueHD.

Maybe multi channel pcm sourced from DTS Master Audio is different somehow from pcm sourced from Dolby TrueHD? I don't see why it would be though. Thanks again.

 

[TLS Guy]

Thanks for the reply, TLS Guy. I refuse to buy a newer receiver for the moment. If anything I will get a blu ray with multi channel analog output. The frustrating thing is that the receiver does accept multi channel pcm over hdmi. All of my DTS master audio discs work and my High Fidelity Pure Audio blu rays like Beck's Sea Change. That disc is 5.1 at 192khz/24bit. The only discs that don't work are the Dolby TrueHD.

Maybe multi channel pcm sourced from DTS Master Audio is different somehow from pcm sourced from Dolby TrueHD? I don't see why it would be though. Thanks again.

You will have to buy an older BD player on eBay. We are now beyond the analog sunset, and BD players are no longer allowed to have multichannel analog outs.

Dolby True HD and DTS Master HD are actually very different.

DTS uses one tack and the HD Master is wound round the DTS core. For Dolby True HD and Dolby digital they are on separate tracks. That is why the studios don't like it as it takes more data space.

The DTS is the much more elegant system by far.

 

[whgarrett1394]

Interesting. I guess I will just have to settle for lossy. Whoa is me Thanks again.

 

[Adam]

Welcome to the forum!

A couple of suggestions:
(1) If you haven't already, set the "BD Audio MIX Setting" to "Off" (on page 21 of the Sony manual)
(2) Try using the coax digital audio connection from the blu-ray player to your receiver to see if that helps out

 

[whgarrett1394]

The plot thickens! Thanks for the reply and suggestion, Adam. I want lossless audio though and i don't think the coaxial/toslink will transfer it. I have changed the BD mix from ON to OFF.

However, I bought the same blu ray player for my father at christmas. Borrowed his yesterday and found the same discrepancy in audio. Could it be the specific model?

Then last night I remembered I had the old samsung blu ray in the garage. Just finished hooking it up and voila. Dolby TrueHD audio sent to my Marantz via hdmi as PCM works just fine.

Interesting. The samsung will still not play the Dark City/Tron Master HD Audio 7.1 correctly. The center channel is missing.

 

[j_garcia]

Is the player up to date on firmware?

 

[whgarrett1394]

Thanks j_garcia. I did check if that was case. It makes me think there is something weird about the sony blu ray player. Or maybe there is a setting that i'm missing, but it is really a simple player. Not much to the set up.

The missing center channel for discs that contain the DTS Master HD Audio 7.1 is quite confusing. Especially since that is the case with all three blu ray players i tried. That makes me think it is a problem specific to the receiver.

 

[j_garcia]

Just looked it up and found a thread on AVS that says the 5001 has HDMI 1.1 and does not support multichannel PCM, so yes it is your receiver.

Just got off the phone with Marantz tech support. They confirmed that I cannot get lossless audio over HDMI. The only way for me to get it is to use the 7.1 analog inputs...unfortunately the Panny BD35 only has HDMI and optical outputs.

 

[whgarrett1394]

Thanks for helping me and researching, j_garcia. Unfortunately I have seen that thread and I didn't think it was correct. At least not with my Marantz sr5001.

I am outputting pcm on the blu ray player. It is on auto on the receiver. The receiver confirms that it is receiving pcm. And i'm getting discrete channels.

I don't know what is up with that guy, and the tech support he received. Thanks again though. It's not really that big of a deal. I think I am just going to deal with it for now. It's an enigma.

 

[Lulimet]

If the Samsung player decodes TrueHD and sends it as PCM then the problem is with the Sony players, not the receiver.
The missing center channel sound may be a problem with the discs themselves. Many complains about the Tron disc. Audio and video problems.

 

[whgarrett1394]

Thanks Lulimet. That is the way I'm leaning for the time being at least. I have seen multiple threads complaining about both Tron and Dark City's audio.

 

[TLS Guy]

Thanks Lulimet. That is the way I'm leaning for the time being at least. I have seen multiple threads complaining about both Tron and Dark City's audio.

I have no trouble with that Tron disc.

I still suspect the receiver. It sounds right on the edge of having enough processing power, and I suspect it is just short of the mark.

The real test is to see how that Sony player works with an up to date receiver.

I'm betting money, that this issue would not occur.

I have come to accept that receivers/pre pros are out of date after about 4 years, or sooner.

My pre/pro is now about four years old and does not have features I would like, such as Dolby Digital Plus.

I would pay more for a pre/pro that was modular, so I could just replace the processor board.

It really is a pain having to replace the whole thing and expensive to boot.

 

[j_garcia]

I have not had trouble with the Tron on 3 different players, nor have I ever had a problem with The Dark Crystal, and I've played that one on even more players. It is entirely possible the problem is the player's decoding. Simple way to find out is to go pick up a cheap player at Best Buy and try it out; if it works, keep it for movies. For being so cheap, the current Pannys and Sonys are pretty good.

 

[whgarrett1394]

Thanks again guys for you input. I think that the problem lies in both the player and the receiver. The decoding of the Tron and Dark City 7.1 discs is most likely a problem with the receiver. The TrueHD decoding is probably the sony player since the samsung i used transferred them fine.

Like you said I could use another receiver and another blu ray player with my existing equipment to find out the weakest link. I might do that since these type of things drive me crazy. As you can probably already tell from my extensive posts. Peace.

 

[markw]

To help isolate the problem you might what to "rent" a more upscale BDP from wally world to see if that cures the problem. If it doesn't, you can be pretty sure it's the receiver.

 

[whgarrett1394]

Markw, that is exactly what i was thinking. "Renting" from BB was my thought, but there is a Wally World in my town as well. Thanks.

 

[mtrot]

Maybe, pick up a used Oppo BDP-83, and use the analog outs into the 5001? That way, you can get both Dolby TrueHD and DTS Master Audio HD. But, you will need all the analog interconnects, which may cost enough to be a nice chunk towards a new receiver! And, with the Oppo, you can play SACD and DVD-Audio discs, if you like.

Also, somebody correct me if I am wrong, but just because you are seeing "PCM" on your 5001 doesn't necessarily mean you are hearing DTS Master AudioHD. The 5001 may be defaulting to the next level lower of DTS.

 

[TLS Guy]

Maybe, pick up a used Oppo BDP-83, and use the analog outs into the 5001? That way, you can get both Dolby TrueHD and DTS Master Audio HD. But, you will need all the analog interconnects, which may cost enough to be a nice chunk towards a new receiver! And, with the Oppo, you can play SACD and DVD-Audio discs, if you like.

Also, somebody correct me if I am wrong, but just because you are seeing "PCM" on your 5001 doesn't necessarily mean you are hearing DTS Master AudioHD. The 5001 may be defaulting to the next level lower of DTS.

You are absolutely correct on the last point.