$650 for rotors and pads (all four wheels)?!

[Chu Gai]

The amount of time that they charge you is generally based off what's been previously determined for your make and model off something like Mitchell. Mitchell is one of several programs that provide diagrams, trouble shooting, time for the job, etc. that mechanics use. If the program says 2 hours, it doesn't matter if it took them 30 minutes or 4 hours. Generally it's significantly less that the estimate. It's not hard finding good brakes and rotors although there are times when what you're looking for isn't going to be found at PartsGeek or RockAuto.

I once had an email exhangw with a person I think it was from Wagner who works for the company and does training on their recommended way to install brakes. One of the things he stressed was the importance of using a torque wrench and doing it by hand. That's something you or I might do but I doubt any shop uses that approach.

 

[TLS Guy]

Sorry... $260 for all four in parts. And about 45 minutes a wheel.

It may be reasonable if you are paying a mechanic. I just found that to be a rather expensive rate for something a normal joe can do with a 14mm, 22mm, breaker bar and ratchet.

I'm sure they could knock out a rotor and pad change in 30 minutes. I'm not discounting the fact that they have overhead costs.

I've traditionally done my own brakes, master cylinder, balancer etc... I was just caught by surprise at the costs.

The labor averages out to $150 / hour.

For that money you bought junk Chinese parts.

High quality steel rotors cost a lot more than that. Also decent pads are expensive.

Expect those rotors to have a ridge in no time and likely warp. Your brake pads will likely wear fast and quite probably fracture.

With brake parts it pays to select the highest quality parts you can lay your hand to. They last about five times as long as the cheap ones and often more.

Never instal a Chinese rebuilt alternator or starter, or you will change it again the next week.

With the price you were quoted, that shop was not using the best parts either.

 

[slipperybidness]

For that money you bought junk Chinese parts.

High quality steel rotors cost a lot more than that. Also decent pads are expensive.

Expect those rotors to have a ridge in no time and likely warp. Your brake pads will likely wear fast and quite probably fracture.

With brake parts it pays to select the highest quality parts you can lay your hand to. They last about five times as long as the cheap ones and often more.

Never instal a Chinese rebuilt alternator or starter, or you will change it again the next week.

With the price you were quoted, that shop was not using the best parts either.

You do make some very valid points. Rotors is certainly not a place to skimp on parts. The entire job of the rotor is to convert kinetic energy to heat energy, so the more massive the rotors (ie steel) the better. The cheap chinese rotors are absolutely at greater risk to warp or crack.

Also, those cheap brake pads make a mess with brake dust on the rims. The high quality pads that I have on mine now are very clean on the dusting on the rims.

And yeah, the rebuilt alternators are a real pain, I have absolutely put one on and then changed it again in less than 1 month.

 

[Irvrobinson]

The unmitigated gall those rotten mechanics have to charge enough to pay for their rent, salaries, insurance, utilities, and other incidentals and still have a bit left for profit!

Exactly. Even a small shop, a couple of mechanics in a grungy building loaded with lifts and tools, is probably looking at an overhead of $20-$30/hr. For big shops it's hundreds of dollars per hour. While cheap parts are available on the internet, a shop can't stay in business selling at those prices, and most shops have to mark up parts to try to cover their overhead. A professionally done brake job will include parts cleaning and fluid bleeding, and all of that takes supplies, time, and clean-up. I would guess the shop's fully loaded labor rate is $50/hr, and they'd have to allocate two or three hours, depending on the car. Add in a 50% mark-up on $275 in parts, supplies, various recycling and disposal charges (most waste companies charge automotive shops more due to toxic waste), and I can see $650 easily and reasonably. At a dealer I would expect $500-$600 per axle for a car like this (a VW wagon, if I remember correctly?). Dealer labor rates are seldom below $75/hr, and are often more like $100/hr, at least west of the Mississippi. I'm thinking these pricing expectations for really professional work are unrealistic.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Hi Mark,

I stated in the first post that I understand they have overhead costs. I did both in 75 minutes. They could knock it out in 30 and I really believe less than that. That is at least $120 and hour and I HONESTLY do not know what a reasonable mechanic labor rate IS.

I thought $650 was just too high.

Anywhoo it ended up being an absolute piece of cake on the 2nd wheel after I had gotten one done.

Did you clean the brake parts first, or did you just breathe in that asbestos? (Yes, many brake pads still use asbestos for the US market. Yes, it is legal.) Did you bleed the brake lines too?

 

[j_garcia]

You do make some very valid points. Rotors is certainly not a place to skimp on parts. The entire job of the rotor is to convert kinetic energy to heat energy, so the more massive the rotors (ie steel) the better. The cheap chinese rotors are absolutely at greater risk to warp or crack.

Also, those cheap brake pads make a mess with brake dust on the rims. The high quality pads that I have on mine now are very clean on the dusting on the rims.

High quality pads with a good material tend to dust MORE, not less. There are low dust options with most quality manufacturers, but I choose based on stopping power and pedal feel, not how much they dust. Mine dust more than I'd like, but man do they stop great. Dust really shouldn't be an issue with rim finishes these days, and there are a number of quality, biodegradable cleaners on the market.

And yeah, the rebuilt alternators are a real pain, I have absolutely put one on and then changed it again in less than 1 month.

Power steering pump = OEM only
Alternator = OEM only
Water pump and timing belt or chain = OEM only.
Steering rack = OEM only.

Don't trust your LIFE to cheap parts.

 

[Rickster71]

I've read it's good to do a 3x drain & fill - drain however many quarts come out (should be ~2.5), refill, drive around for 10 minutes, and then do it a couple more times. After all that you should have around 90% of the fluid changed. I'll be using OEM fluid (Honda ATF-DW1). After the first 3x drain and fill you can just do a single drain and fill at every oil change (~8000-10000 miles).

The filter is internal and changing it would require the transmission to be opened up so I definitely won't be doing that.

Is draining it 3X something you've read on a forum? That's not something a dealer or repair shop would do.
They would most likely do a reverse flush, or just drop the sump and change or clean the filter.

Draining 3X just to get the remaining one quart left in the converter is overkill and wastes a lot of ATF. It's really a waste if the pan isn't dropped and the filter not changed.
It would be like washing one hand 3x but not the other.
There are drains on a few torque converters, not many though. Most don't have them, that's why it's best to change often.
If you really want to lengthen the life of both the fluid and transmission. Get a trans cooler installed.
Good luck and be careful out there.

 

[slipperybidness]

High quality pads with a good material tend to dust MORE, not less. There are low dust options with most quality manufacturers, but I choose based on stopping power and pedal feel, not how much they dust. Mine dust more than I'd like, but man do they stop great.

Well, I've had cheapy pads that stopped OK but left a lot of dust. I've also had expensive pads that left little dust, but the stopping power sucked. The ones on there now from RockAuto are great! Very little dust and great stopping power. I plan to use these only from now on.

I had NEVER been satisfied with my brakes on my 2002 Mustang. Reading around on the forums, this is a common complaint on these models. Drilled/slotted rotors, upgraded lines, and high quality pads and I finally feel comfortable with these brakes.

The Best option on these is to move up to the Bullit or Cobra brakes (ie "big brake kit). But, those kits require a minimum 18" rims and my stock rims are too small. Due to this, I am considering moving to bigger rims when I need new tires next time.

 

[Lulimet]

$650 for pads and rotors in all 4 corners sounds like a fair price if it's from a dealer. A dealer will most likely always use OEM parts which in my experience are almost always higher quality than non-OEM ones.
Shop rate for an independent shop in my area is $75-80. My dealer's rate is $90 (Nissan).
A legit shop uses the industry guidelines on how much team each job takes. Mechanics get paid the same amount of hours even if it took them less or longer time than what the job pays.

My father-in-law always bought brake pads from eirther Auto Zone or Pep Boys since they have lifetime warranty. What he didn't understand is that he had to change those pads once a year because of how shitty they were. He was very surprised that I drive more miles than him and I only have to change my pads every 4 years or so. I use OEM pads.

 

[j_garcia]

Well, I've had cheapy pads that stopped OK but left a lot of dust. I've also had expensive pads that left little dust, but the stopping power sucked. The ones on there now from RockAuto are great! Very little dust and great stopping power. I plan to use these only from now on.

I had NEVER been satisfied with my brakes on my 2002 Mustang. Reading around on the forums, this is a common complaint on these models. Drilled/slotted rotors, upgraded lines, and high quality pads and I finally feel comfortable with these brakes.

The Best option on these is to move up to the Bullit or Cobra brakes (ie "big brake kit). But, those kits require a minimum 18" rims and my stock rims are too small. Due to this, I am considering moving to bigger rims when I need new tires next time.

The stock brakes on most of the Subarus aren't that great either. That's why I went with the STI Brembos with 17" BBS (forged, 16lbs) rims to clear them. All of it is OEM and has no affect on the warranty. Goodridge black SST lines with Mintex pads, DBA rotors and Motul fluid.

 

[its phillip]

Is draining it 3X something you've read on a forum? That's not something a dealer or repair shop would do.
They would most likely do a reverse flush, or just drop the sump and change or clean the filter.

Draining 3X just to get the remaining one quart left in the converter is overkill and wastes a lot of ATF. It's really a waste if the pan isn't dropped and the filter not changed.
It would be like washing one hand 3x but not the other.
There are drains on a few torque converters, not many though. Most don't have them, that's why it's best to change often.
If you really want to lengthen the life of both the fluid and transmission. Get a trans cooler installed.
Good luck and be careful out there.

Yes, it's something I read on a forum as the best way to get most of the fluid changed since Honda recommends not flushing the system. They only recommend doing a drain and fill. Dropping the pan would be a big hassle and very expensive if I had it done at the dealership. I guess I could just do a single drain and fill like the dealership would have done but that only gets about 40% of the fluid changed. Perhaps one day I'll install a transmission cooler but I'd have to learn how first.

Thanks

 

[slipperybidness]

The stock brakes on most of the Subarus aren't that great either. That's why I went with the STI Brembos with 17" BBS (forged, 16lbs) rims to clear them. All of it is OEM and has no affect on the warranty. Goodridge black SST lines with Mintex pads, DBA rotors and Motul fluid.

Which Subaru do you drive?

I have been eyeballing an Outback, or even better the WRX for many years.

 

[jinjuku]

Probably not many, but then again, how many "unassigned" hours do they sit there and drink coffee while waiting for someone to bring a car in for service? How much do they have to make up for loss leaders ($20 oil change!)? Those aren't factors for my employer, but they certainly matter for automotive services.

Good points. I know the utilization isn't 100% at these places. I guess $650 isn't something you pay for if you can do it yourself.

 

[jinjuku]

A professionally done brake job will include parts cleaning and fluid bleeding

It was a another $99 for bleeding the system.

 

[jinjuku]

I would expect $500-$600 per axle for a car like this (a VW wagon, if I remember correctly?). Dealer labor rates are seldom below $75/hr, and are often more like $100/hr, at least west of the Mississippi. I'm thinking these pricing expectations for really professional work are unrealistic.

It was my G35....

So the $650 isn't all that off the mark. Again I was just surprised at the quote.

 

[jinjuku]

For that money you bought junk Chinese parts.

Warranty wise I have two years on the Rotors, Lifetime on the Pads. It may be Chinese and a lot is. I only drive about 4K a year so I guess I will have to take my chances. The car does stop and I have more pedal.

 

[jinjuku]

Did you clean the brake parts first, or did you just breathe in that asbestos? (Yes, many brake pads still use asbestos for the US market. Yes, it is legal.) Did you bleed the brake lines too?

Yes the parts were cleaned. I didn't bleed the lines. I just popped the cap on the Brake Fluid reservoir and compressed the calipers with a clamp. Their is no feedback in the pedal and standing on the brakes hard the car stops in a straight line.

I can always bleed the lines, just not in the time allotted today. Maybe this weekend if it doesn't rain.

 

[jinjuku]

BTW I have found Eric the Car Guy on YouTube. He has a great video on explaining how shops price out jobs now. It's most likely a rough business to be in from accounts.

 

[j_garcia]

Which Subaru do you drive?

I have been eyeballing an Outback, or even better the WRX for many years.

Forester. Sold the WRX to buy it.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/steam-vent/85921-new-project-vehicle.html

 

[slipperybidness]

Forester. Sold the WRX to buy it.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/steam-vent/85921-new-project-vehicle.html

You sold the WRX Say it aint so