WHEN DID EVERYTHING GET SO EXPENSIVE?!?!?!?!? kids are expensive ...

ImcLoud

ImcLoud

Audioholic Ninja
Right. The smartest thing you said. Real estate is not for everyone. Investing w/ a professional advisor is.
While I said "real estate is not for everyone" I also don't think a "professional" adviser has all the answers either, and is definitely not for everyone.. Case and point, why aren't them guys in their 50's millionaires? If you have all the answers {or even some of them} and you want to be trusted with decisions on where to put the money I earned, show me how you did for yourself... I have a couple friends and people I am familiar with that are in the business, one is a WF account manager and we talk about money all the time, and his own words were "I'll never let him forget", "people who invest in the stock market over and over long term end up either losing or breaking very close to even!!!" He has been doing it for almost 30 years, sure there are guys making money, but very few, and they are in and out, in low, out medium and high and move on...

You could NOT imagine how many times I get approached by financial advisers, and people looking to tell me how I should invest my money, its OLD, believe me... I used to listen to them and once and a while I will entertain a proposal from a "friend" or colleague, but they NEVER make what I can make, NEVER NEVER not once and a while but NEVER, these guys are some of the best in the business, and NEVER do they come close to 300%, the numbers they come up with are a joke, 16% and they want to be called a GOD, and charge you for it, EVEN if it doesn't return!!! Better {or worse rather} than that is they charge you if you LOSE!!!! Sure its easy to make money that way, give me your $100K if I make you money you pay me, sure that makes sense, if I break you even you pay me {eh' I don't like how that sounds, because now I lost what i could have earned and what I pay you}, and if I lose you money you pay me!!! {WHAT? you need to leave my office, lol...}

I don't care what anyone says, its gambling and as everyone knows if you gamble long enough you lose...

Its this simple, if I told you, "you buy this item for $100, it will be worth $110 tomorrow morning and John will pay you $10 a week to use it and he needs to use it for ever, and after 10 weeks when you have your $100 back its going to be worth $150 and people will still want to borrow it from you...
 
H

herbu

Audioholic Samurai
Case and point, why aren't them guys in their 50's millionaires?... "people who invest in the stock market over and over long term end up either losing or breaking very close to even!!!
You are obviously talking to the wrong guys.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
Right. The smartest thing you said. Real estate is not for everyone. Investing w/ a professional advisor is.
Not sure why you'd pay someone to invest your money. If you really want to invest in the stock market just do the S&P core ETF. Don't waste your time paying someone fees to put you in funds that normally do worse and have higher fees to overcome. Unless it's Warren Buffet. Or someone who's actually very wealthy.
 
ImcLoud

ImcLoud

Audioholic Ninja
You are obviously talking to the wrong guys.
C'mon Herb.. I am talking to the wrong guys? And the smartest thing I have said is "real estate is not for everyone" lol, out of all of that text you read that as the smartest thing? Seriously :D ? I can cash out tomorrow at 34 years old for over 20m and still own all of my "personal" assets in 7 digit land.... I not long ago was installing boilers and water heaters for $800 a week, seriously, you can trust whom ever you like with your money, I trust my self, and plenty of others have followed this young cats lead... I offer free advise, show me the millionaire investor you personally know that will do the same?

I am passionate about what I know, I know I am guilty of that, I know high end HVAC, Building, and real estate, but first I know money, I know that you have to spend it to make it, but more important I know how to make it by not spending it.... If you need to pay someone to tell you to where to put your money, then by all means go for it, if you are happy and secure with 10% and visible risk then {btw I know a lot of people investing and 10% does NOT come easy, legally, you should expect 6 and be thankful for it, that is before fees, taxes, and paying your adviser}...

Here is what I know, you put your money in that folder or in the bank, and you will lose in the end... You know what it takes to get them BIG winners? A lot of LITTLE loosers, and that what the little guy is in the stock market, little looser... My poor father in law lost 300K in his retirement a few years back when things went down, youo know what i lost? NOTHING!!!! Not a dime, rentals got much easier to fill, we went from having a unit or 2 empty while placing tenants to having a waiting list!!! The sad part is this won't last forever, if you don't buy the property now while its foreclosed and the banks are trying to shed them, then you will be locked out when they are all gone and the market really turns around, thats good news for me, since I don't want anymore {unless they are super deals and close to some I already own, I like them close to each other} and when the market really turns {its getting better now, but when the fc's get low prices will jump, rite now with a flooded market its tough, but I see what they do ont talk about on the news, they say the market is getting better because of jobs, and house prices that is BS, the market is getting better because the millions of people who lost their houses are starting to get their credit back, and they are coming back to market as a smart consumer, 20% down, 30yr fixed, multi fams if need be, very smart... So now in 5 years all them people who lost will be back wanting to buy and get out of their rentals, that is when I will sell and also get out of rentals {maybe}...

If none of what I say makes sense then I feel sorry for you, keep going to work for someone else, put in your 40 hours, live check to check with very little reserve, and ignore me, but if anyone wants advise on how to start a re co then feel free to ask, its not hard at all. I know people that do it part time as a hobby, my sons football coach just closed on his first 3 family about 7 months ago, he pulled equity from his home and bought one cash, he did a lot of work himself {no mortgage to race for rental} and all 3 units have been rented for 3-4 months. We talked on the phone about it a few weeks ago and he said he is making triple payments on his mortgage and if all goes well he will pay his house and the equity loan off in 6 years!!! So he will own both houses outrite, he is looking to do another one, but he said this time he wants a 5 unit and up, I tried to tell him to stay away from over 3 because the rules change {wired to alarm fire, sprinklers, ect, depending where you are}, but he is the "go big or go home' type, his wife personally thanked me with a carrot cake before camp started, she said it is changing their life month by month....

I know the feeling, its awesome, like free money, the rent checks start coming in and all you can think is "I still own it and its work more than I paid, plus I get this $3K every month!!!!

Anyway, I know a lot of the guys on here are older than me, and you guys have been around, I know I probably wouldn't take advice from some younger guy about my money, but if you ever thought about it, or considered it, and you have the money in the rite area and the time, it can change your financial life...

Please don't get me wrong, the stock market can be good, but the "set it and forget it" days are over, anyone who says different is a liar or ignorant, you need to be on top of that portfolio changing and trading constantly, see how your blood pressure is after doing that for 5 years, like holding your d!ck over a pan while cooking canadian bacon your gonna end up burnt and your wife is going to be pissed you have your d!ck out in the kitchen again, I've seen it a thousand times...
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
C'mon Herb.. I am talking to the wrong guys? And the smartest thing I have said is "real estate is not for everyone" lol, out of all of that text you read that as the smartest thing? Seriously :D ? I can cash out tomorrow at 34 years old for over 20m and still own all of my "personal" assets in 7 digit land.... I not long ago was installing boilers and water heaters for $800 a week, seriously, you can trust whom ever you like with your money, I trust my self, and plenty of others have followed this young cats lead... I offer free advise, show me the millionaire investor you personally know that will do the same?
Your posts are amusing, Irv, but you really should get out and read the Wall Street Journal once in a while. Many billionaire investors will show you exactly what they're investing in, like Warren Buffett and Carl Icahn, to name two. Their positions in public companies are large enough they have to list them. You can invest just like Buffett every quarter. That's a pretty conservative strategy, but if you want to be mindless about it the strategy basically works. Not everyone needs to do option trading.

You're right about real estate not being for everyone, especially being a landlord. A couple of eviction stories, a trashing the place story, or perhaps finding the renter turned your rental into a meth lab is all it takes to make some folks (like me) consider the financial markets. I'm glad to hear it's worked for you. I work with a few folks who moonlight as landlords; I just can't, I don't have the temperament for it.
 
ImcLoud

ImcLoud

Audioholic Ninja
Your posts are amusing, Irv, but you really should get out and read the Wall Street Journal once in a while. Many billionaire investors will show you exactly what they're investing in, like Warren Buffett and Carl Icahn, to name two. Their positions in public companies are large enough they have to list them. You can invest just like Buffett every quarter. That's a pretty conservative strategy, but if you want to be mindless about it the strategy basically works. Not everyone needs to do option trading.

You're right about real estate not being for everyone, especially being a landlord. A couple of eviction stories, a trashing the place story, or perhaps finding the renter turned your rental into a meth lab is all it takes to make some folks (like me) consider the financial markets. I'm glad to hear it's worked for you. I work with a few folks who moonlight as landlords; I just can't, I don't have the temperament for it.

Oh c'mon Irv, Your not that easy... First, Warren buffet? seriously, did we just compare anyone we know with WB, be serious, I am not talking about the richest people in the world getting richer, I am talking about a guy with a little money {20K} a little know how, and a little credit being able to be a milliionaire in his life time, WTF is wrong with you guys?

Now eviction stories, meth labs, you need to listen to more music and less TV, I don't know where you live, but not many meth labs in my backyard. I didn't say to buy $1 houses in a ghetto, and we have this little thing called INSURANCE, if the apartment gets destroyed, the insurance co pays you for it, I have been doing it a while and have very few {1} incidents of someone being malicious and damaging property, and my insurance company paid $17K for something that cost me $4K to fix, so I wish all my tenants would break a few windows and leave the tub running, lol... :D

You are comparing the most intelligent investment minds in the world when it comes to investing, with the most remedial backwards rental situations, do you seriously think I am in the third grade here? :D I am just giving my opinion, I just want everyone to do well, if 1 person says, WOW Irv is young and did well, there may be something to this, looks into it and has a little easier life because of it, that would be awesome... I don't hear anyone in here saying they can retire at 39 because of the stock market!!! I am sure there are people out there, but out of everyone that has posted or read this thread there isn't one!! I am 34 and can stop working 6 months ago and never work again, because of real estate and being a "landlord", lol I have tenants for almost a year before I talk to them, some I may never talk to, I have an property manager to take care of it, sure I used to do it all myself and still get involve when I feel like it but if there was something I said in the time we have known each other on this board that made you think I would not be smart enough to know the difference between someone that is going to be cooking meth in my apartment and not, then I apologize...


Please don't misunderstand me guys, and please because it may be something you will never do don't down play the potential in my plan, I admit you can make 6% or maybe even double that {rare} in the market, but don't for a second think its easy, and don't for a second think that there is less risk than realestate, in this market. I almost want to buy one I have my eye on to post the progress here but I promised my wife no more for a while, the house is $63K duplex in a real nice area, that I would spend about $15K fixing up to my rental standard {livable as is, but I make sure they are high end, thats how I get the good rents}, the place is worth $1500 for first floor and $1250 for second, that $2750 a month the taxes ate $4300 a year, insurance would be $1100, building will pay for itself in 3 YEARS!!! and will be worth $180K by then!!!! So go ahead, look into the stock market and show me where I can put $80K and in 3 years have my $80 back and $180K on top of it!!!! Start looking, let me know when you come up with something, if you can do it, and have the collateral to cover my losses I'll have it drawn up and invest the $80, in 3 years I will let you keep anything over $150K and my money back, so in 2 years turn 80 into $230K...... It is impossible... You will be best case around $96500, that is $16K profit in 3 years. NO THANK YOU SIR, you guys that don't think it will work must be much smarter than my online banking staements because they show a different story...

As far as the renting nightmares, sure they happen, but show me one person that lost everything because someone had a meth lab in their apartment, it is BS, Ill do a google search and in .0019 seconds show you a hundred people who lost everything in the stock market...

PS please don't take this as a personal argument, I in no way mean it that way, if we were in person, I would be preaching the same story, I have had this conversation with others, I am in a position where I hear all kinds of pitches, I can invest here, and there, and 20% here, ect.. You think I never heard someone say, "start me off small, give me $40K and let me show you what I can do" and I reply "well tell me the best case" and you know what they say? The best I ever heard was 28%!!!! I will make 115%, Ill have turned $50K into $200K in 3 years before, and that was for my sister, she cashed out her 401K that she lost $22K in {yah do the math on that}, and in 3 years she had her $50K back and owned a house worth $200K, she is a very simple person with a good job, and she sold the house to one of the tenants for $214 {I brokered it so no re fees} admittingly I did a lot of the work for her, but from my help she only saved around $20K.... Still not bad profit...

Again, I apologize if I offended anyone, I am just giving my advice from my experience, I don't really care what you do with your money, use it to light cheap cigars in front of pretty girls for all I care, :D.... I like you all, I just try to share, Im young dumb and thick headed, what do I know, I am watching "overboard" {that I picked on demand} at 10-30 at night, icing a shoulder that I am not supposed to be moving after 62- 315lb lat presses... I wouldn't listen to me either, but "me" are the only voices in my head, except that other one....
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
Oh c'mon Irv, Your not that easy... First, Warren buffet? seriously, did we just compare anyone we know with WB, be serious, I am not talking about the richest people in the world getting richer, I am talking about a guy with a little money {20K} a little know how, and a little credit being able to be a milliionaire in his life time, WTF is wrong with you guys?
You asked which millionaire would give you their investment strategies, and I listed two billionaires, who, BTW, both get a return of a hell of a lot more than 6% per year. Frankly, no, I'm not that easy, I don't generally follow others as an investment strategy, but it's not a bad one to choose. I like it better than Dogs of the Dow for conservative people who ask my advice. As for your opinions on what's possible and impossible, I'd recommend a little more research before you let your fingers do the talking. :)
 
ImcLoud

ImcLoud

Audioholic Ninja
You asked which millionaire would give you their investment strategies, and I listed two billionaires, who, BTW, both get a return of a hell of a lot more than 6% per year. Frankly, no, I'm not that easy, I don't generally follow others as an investment strategy, but it's not a bad one to choose. I like it better than Dogs of the Dow for conservative people who ask my advice. As for your opinions on what's possible and impossible, I'd recommend a little more research before you let your fingers do the talking. :)
This is my research irv, lol.. I am not going to actually google it :D, I am going by what I live and have watched others live... And of course what I am told, for instance this post, if you show me proof, I will read through it.

This is my issue, I know a lot of people getting wealthy from property maint. and no one talks about it!! Its like a big secret how easy it is, I don't get it, there is plenty to go around.. But I have seen local business men keep secrets like cheating house wifes about properties they aren't interested in to others flipping properties, why? I don't know, its no competition, you buy what you want, they will buy there.. its that easy..

As far as the stock market, I am just not sold, I see too many people lose the bottom half of their shirt and the rest aren't getting where I would expect them to get....
 
M

MidnightSensi2

Audioholic Chief
As far as the stock market, I am just not sold, I see too many people lose the bottom half of their shirt and the rest aren't getting where I would expect them to get....
With the stock market crash, I saw a lot of people get burned.

With the real estate market crash, I saw a lot of people get burned.

...Some are saying there is another 'bubble' brewing down here... the mortgages are stricter, but, home prices have gone up like 20%+ in the last two years. Condos are also higher, and they are building more. I think its mostly caused by the influx of South American money, but, don't know if it is a bubble or not.
South Florida home prices rising more slowly - Real Estate News - MiamiHerald.com
 
H

herbu

Audioholic Samurai
you need to be on top of that portfolio changing and trading constantly
No, you're wrong. A diversified portfolio needs occasional tweaking, and adjustments as your own situation and income requirements change. The guys who change and trade constantly either don't know what they're doing, or they're taking big risks looking for a killing. That is the value of a reputable financial advisor.

ImcLoud, who are you trying to convince? And of what? Real estate worked for you. I get it. Investments worked for me. In the real world, there are many, many more investors than home flippers/landlords, and it will always be so. Just because your personal experience with investments is less than satisfactory, why do you want to convince everyone they should be like you?

Real estate is a reasonable fit for some people, in some areas, at some times.
Saving and investing wisely is a reasonable fit for all people, in all areas, at all times.
 
ImcLoud

ImcLoud

Audioholic Ninja
No, you're wrong. A diversified portfolio needs occasional tweaking, and adjustments as your own situation and income requirements change. The guys who change and trade constantly either don't know what they're doing, or they're taking big risks looking for a killing. That is the value of a reputable financial advisor.

ImcLoud, who are you trying to convince? And of what? Real estate worked for you. I get it. Investments worked for me. In the real world, there are many, many more investors than home flippers/landlords, and it will always be so. Just because your personal experience with investments is less than satisfactory, why do you want to convince everyone they should be like you?

Real estate is a reasonable fit for some people, in some areas, at some times.
Saving and investing wisely is a reasonable fit for all people, in all areas, at all times.
I think there are more people in real estate than the stock market, I think the home ownership rate was 65% on the last census... Less than 50% of americans are somehow "in" the stock market, and over 90% of them are simple employer retirement plans..., so for actual people going to a broker or advisor and really getting involved in investing money not withdrawn from weekly wages, there are not many...

I think we are arguing different angles here, my point is you will make more money in real estate than the stock market, thats it, I am shocked if anyone denies it because you are lying to yourself, lol.. And in the stock market you are not taking a loan to invest the money, with realestate you can mortgage your investment if you have to, so you can play with $100K when you only have $20K, so {now stay with me here} now you are getting the benefits from a $100K investment for $20K, and after the 80K mortgage is paid off, you are all profit minus taxes, upkeep, and insurance... Its not much more complicated than that...

So this isn't for you old lazy guys that don't know a flooring staple from an L head stud :D, this is for the young guys that don't mind doing a little work and maybe only have $50-60K in a savings account somewhere...

If you don't like the idea of real estate, then thats OK, I wish you luck in the market, I hope you do well and get out in time, for me I like the security of owning a tangible piece of property, I have a stack of deeds and pay off notices in my safe and get a stack of monthly checks from a bunch of good people that I am happy I could give a nice place to live. I have a hard time investing in something I can not touch... If the market crashes what happens to your money, you have no control over it, you are investing in smoke and mirrors...
You can not say it won't crash, its not a matter of if it will its when, since 08 there has been over a half dozen days with losses in excess of 7%, NO THANK YOU, let me think about this, risk losses or no risk??? HMMMMMM... Lol..

Worse case in my case {real estate}, the market crashes economy goes to to h3LL, my property values drop to the floor!!! I still have rents coming in no matter what people need a place to live, rents can go down, but not in a market where no one can get a mortgage... I am just trying to give you something to think about, I am showing you facts, buy this house, do this, and you can earn this.... You guys are saying "call a "good" advisor, talk to the "right" person, look at this "billionaire" who by the way is a HUGE real estate flipper and landlord, how do you think these guys got rich enough to play the market, use your heads, guys.. Warren Buffett Reveals His Secrets for Investing in Real Estate - DailyFinance most of how I run my business came from stuff I read from WB, you are not going to tell me anything I don't know about the man...

Pick any wealthy person and if they aren't buying and selling something, they are building or inheriting it... them are WB's words.. Anyway, Irv, and Herb seem to not belive in real estate investments, lol I wonder how many more years you guys have on your mortgages and how many years you have already paid, lol.. You could have bought 2 houses when you bought the one and had them both paid for in half the time, or buy 4 and do it in half of that.... Then imagine how much extra money you would have to donate to your "stock specialist" and the "market", lol...
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
Irv, I never said I didn't invest in real estate, I said I didn't invest in rental properties because I don't care for the headaches. As for the rest of my financial situation, unlike you I don't care to discuss it on the internet. And I really don't appreciate being called a lazy old guy. Adios.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
So this isn't for you old lazy guys that don't know a flooring staple from an L head stud :D, this is for the young guys that don't mind doing a little work and maybe only have $50-60K in a savings account somewhere.
I understand you want to help people, but remember we don't all share your goals. Many of us really enjoy our 40 hours a week jobs living a normal american life. All I want to do is play with computers. I go to work and play with computers all day. That's right! I get to do what I love all day and they actually pay me! I don't love real estate and don't own any. I'm sure some day I'll buy a house, but only when I have the cash for it. I don't believe in using debt unless I have no other recourse.
 
ImcLoud

ImcLoud

Audioholic Ninja
Fair enough, I like what I do BUT, would I rather be on the beach, or pulling my kids around on the boat watching them do back flips on wake boards all day? yes. And that can't happen with out a heavy income and working 40 hours a week...

I always liked building things and watching accomplishments come to life, but if I wasn't making money doing it I don't think I would be doing it... I also understand some people are perfectly happy with punching in at 9 out at 5 and taking home $1250 a week, no other responsibilities, I get that but it will take 40 years of that before you can retire, with a little elbow grease and creative investing you can do it in 10-15 years and do it well...

I am actually sick of talking about it, lol I didn't think that would ever happen, lol...
 
Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
punching in at 9 out at 5 and taking home $1250 a week
Do your people take home $1250? If so, I'm sorry for having antagonized you and may I please have an application ... sir? :D
 
ImcLoud

ImcLoud

Audioholic Ninja
Do your people take home $1250? If so, I'm sorry for having antagonized you and may I please have an application ... sir? :D
LOL, without prevailing wage? take homes around $800 to $1000 for 40 hours depending on the position and employee... Some PW jobs with over time, I am sure my master mechanical tech can take home $2000 a week... But I am expecting on this sight, looking at the gear people have and what they spend on this stuff, $1250 would be the median, maybe not take home, now that I think about it but definitely gross...
Except for a couple guys, like Bryce sounds like he does well for himself, with his gear list and 7200 sq ft home... I would imagine Irv does very well just by his first name, Adam is constantly buying faucets so he is making at least $1500 a week, Zei is successful judging by how he spends money like a pirate, ect :D:D:D...

But seriously, most of the guys on this forum are pretty bright, I can tell by how they argue :D sometimes... I can't imagine the medium pay being under 1000$, my wife works mon-thurs, every fri, sat, sun, off never works over 40 hours, and I want to say her take home is around 1200 or so... and shes a girl, jk, thats a joke... I know some of you are girls too.... jk, another joke, I am really not that sexist, I have a hot office manager that i hired on looks alone, so I am pretty sure that is reverse discrimination or something like that... OK that is really a joke, I don't need a law suit, lol... really thats a joke, she's not very attractive at all, no ok, the last 4 lines of text are just for fun, seriously..
 
ImcLoud

ImcLoud

Audioholic Ninja
Oh ... look, I'm applying for the $1250 9-5, not some bait and switch scam. I'm calling my lawyer.

Can he just do that?
The two highest paids are my office manager and my service manager, my sales manager works on salary and it is a new position, he gets monthly bonuses, I pay everyone biweekly {payroll fees are less that way}.... I am not sure of take homes because of investment packages and I don't know what they claim, I sign their checks but don't pay much attention to the net, since it has very little to do with me, I am paying the big number, lol.. I know my office managers package costs me around 90K a year, thats medical, matching, vacation, sick time, ect... With the laborers its hard to say, Masters get permit bonuses, some times of year there is tons of OT, some years we have tons of prevailing wage jobs, some years not many... A guy with Ma, CT, and RI master mechanical licences is worth $45 an hour any way you look at it, and you never send him alone because you don't want to pay him $45 to run to the truck and lug tools and materials around, so you send him with a $17 helper, after comp, matching, health insurance, ect the guys in that one truck cost me $130 an hour!!!!

I am about ready to get out of it to be honest with you, it has been running itself, and now that I see it doesn't need me, I think I am ready to move on, plus it eats up a lot of my time, I want to be with my family, I love being home when they get home from school, that is awesome, I get to say things like "you got home work, get to it" , "how was school?", "You want to have lunch with me", they had a couple half days this week and I got to eat lunch with them, that is when you know you don't spend enough time with your kids when a fast lunch alone outside with them feels so good...

Cats in the cradle is a nightmare of mine..
 
H

herbu

Audioholic Samurai
my point is you will make more money in real estate than the stock market
Wrong again. You CAN make more money in real estate than the stock market... depending on the conditions in your area, and on timing, and on your skill level and availability of time.

BTW, in Dec 08 the Dow was 9421. Today it is 17,098. Yes it goes up and down, and yes it is a long term strategy. But because it is not YOUR strategy does not make it a bad one. Let's say it together Irv, "There are many different ways to make your fortune, and none of them are right for everybody".
 

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