WHEN DID EVERYTHING GET SO EXPENSIVE?!?!?!?!? kids are expensive ...

[MidnightSensi2]

Audioholics is like the helpful uncle I never had lol.

I'm self-employed, so, I don't have retirement benefits. However, I've been saving when possible since I started my first business at 16. I'm now 28 (29 in Nov). I have about 250k saved, but, that's not that much now days. Er, won't be. On that 250k I earn about 4%, but even then I'm not earning much more than inflation, right? Also that 4% overall is going to be going down since a lot of that is from long term investments that had better rates from before. Getting decent rates in the future seems bleak.

My goal is by 30 to have ~265k saved. That used to sound like a lot more money than it is now. :/

I donno. Seems like you guys have it wayyyy more figured out then me.

Government shits on small business too, despite it making up over 60% of employment in the US. There is very little incentive for me hire anyone and grow, not now!!

 

[its phillip]

I definitely don't have it all figured out and am working on reducing a lot of credit card debt. It does seem like most of the members here know what to do with their money though

 

[ImcLoud]

Audioholics is like the helpful uncle I never had lol.

I'm self-employed, so, I don't have retirement benefits. However, I've been saving when possible since I started my first business at 16. I'm now 28 (29 in Nov). I have about 250k saved, but, that's not that much now days. Er, won't be. On that 250k I earn about 4%, but even then I'm not earning much more than inflation, right? Also that 4% overall is going to be going down since a lot of that is from long term investments that had better rates from before. Getting decent rates in the future seems bleak.

My goal is by 30 to have ~265k saved. That used to sound like a lot more money than it is now. :/

I donno. Seems like you guys have it wayyyy more figured out then me.

Government shits on small business too, despite it making up over 60% of employment in the US. There is very little incentive for me hire anyone and grow, not now!!

You take $60K of your savings...
Find and buy 3 multi family houses.
Each house has to be at least 2 units for under $100K each rent ready.. You want to buy houses that need work, like walls, plumbing elecrical ect. I have bought many for $40, put $30K into them and they are worth $125K the day they are rent ready...
So that means you will spend $60K in down payments at 20% down... {figure it as financing 3-100K homes}... you will owe $240K on the notes for all 3...
Now for round numbers say you did 2-2 fams and 1-3 fam that is 7 rents, figure they will be $700 per month average, that is $4900 per month, so that will come out to around $45K per year after taxes and everything else... NOW pay 40K of that profit towards your notes, how ever you want to split it up... it will take 6 years to pay off your 3 houses for round the sake of its not a perfect world call it 8 years, you will have paid your self back the bulk over your original $60K with the extra $5K per year, and you will have 3 paid off properties that make you $45K a year, or are worth selling for around $400K.... So now imagine you do that 4 times for an initial investment of $240K upfront!!! In 8 years you will have all your money back and be worth well over a million dollars...

Now some people will say, people don't pay their rant, or houses break and need work, or it doesn't always work that way, which is all true, but we threw 2 years of profits in that number, thats a $100K cushion!!!! And the truth of the matter is, if you do the work your self {there is a youtube video for everything}, you buy good properties in good areas, that are easy to rent, screen your tenants well and run it like a business.. Its not as hard as you would think.... I started small, after 2 years I wasn't thinking "YES I CLEARED $140K in 23 months!!!" I was thinking, I could have invested 4 times that and cleared around $600K in 23 months!!! SO thats what I did but I learned a few things, higher end homes while costing more, get better tenants that pay their rent with out issues, the property values go higher faster and the properties are easier to sell in the end, so I dumped all of my starter stuff, and started doing them right, with granite kitchens, master bathrooms, a/c in every unit, ect ect ect.. Then the sky is the limit, a 4 unit town home, I spend $400K to build, rents for $8800 a month, now that is how ou make money.. 4% is a joke {no offense, its not as bad a 3.8%}, 285% is where you start changing the game...

 

[herbu]

I'm now 28 (29 in Nov). I have about 250k saved... On that 250k I earn about 4%

MidnightSensi2, I hope you are prepared to retire a multi-millionaire, before you're 60, with a 6 figure retirement income until you die!!!

1) 250k @ 28 is HUUUUGE!!!
2) 4% per year is dog crap and not gonna do it.

You NEED professional help. UBS, Wells Fargo, Fidelity, on and on and on. You should be more in the 10-12% per year neighborhood... and THAT will do it!!!
VERY conservatively figuring, you should double your money every 10 years. If you don't contribute another cent to your savings, that's $2M when you're 60. Continue contributing, and with any luck in the market, you're retired at 55, no bills and $3M in the bank. Roughly, that means you can draw $150k/year and NEVER touch the 3M principle.

I've used a lot of generalities here, and nothing is guaranteed. But you get an idea of the neighborhood we're talking about. Find a professional. We met with several before deciding on our guy. Remember, whomever you pick will work for you. He should be somebody you like, with good references and with a stable company. You are in FINE shape!!!

 

[ski2xblack]

Ditto what herbu said. MS, you're doing fantastically well at 30 (internet high five!), but that money can work harder for you. Get that re-allocated into a diversified fund portfolio at the very least. And always remember the compounding curve won't tilt up for a couple decades, so be comfortable with the idea of getting rich slowly.

 

[ski2xblack]

You take $80K of your savings...
Find and buy 3 multi family houses.
Each house has to be at least 2 units for under $100K each rent ready..

Ignoring the lack of diversity, liquidity of the assets, and level of involvement with this plan, where on earth do such property valuations exist? A nice duplex out here is north of $500K. Plus, the whole plan is based on a mistrust of debt (probably healthy for low net worth folks, but if not used for consumption can turbocharge the higher net worth folks).

VGHCX is up 20% this year, and can be managed from anywhere with phone service. No freakin' renters, plumbing problems, etc.

 

[MidnightSensi2]

ImcLoud,

Thanks for the information. In my area that would be hard, lots of people are doing it and my expertise and passion are in other areas. It certainly sounds like a good business, but, I'm probably safer sticking to what I know. Florida has lots of special circumstances too...

MidnightSensi2, I hope you are prepared to retire a multi-millionaire, before you're 60, with a 6 figure retirement income until you die!!!

Shweet! But if inflation stays like it is, it seems like I /have/ to be a millionaire just to be alright.

1) 250k @ 28 is HUUUUGE!!!
2) 4% per year is dog crap and not gonna do it.

You NEED professional help. UBS, Wells Fargo, Fidelity, on and on and on. You should be more in the 10-12% per year neighborhood... and THAT will do it!!!
VERY conservatively figuring, you should double your money every 10 years. If you don't contribute another cent to your savings, that's $2M when you're 60. Continue contributing, and with any luck in the market, you're retired at 55, no bills and $3M in the bank. Roughly, that means you can draw $150k/year and NEVER touch the 3M principle.

I've used a lot of generalities here, and nothing is guaranteed. But you get an idea of the neighborhood we're talking about. Find a professional. We met with several before deciding on our guy. Remember, whomever you pick will work for you. He should be somebody you like, with good references and with a stable company. You are in FINE shape!!!

I spoke with some people at Bank of America Private Investments / U.S Trust a few times, and, it didn't give me much confidence. They kinda had a canned speech of what they felt was good to invest in... they showed years they lost money and years they made it...

Part of it is my own insecurity of not knowing about it and not wanting to take much risk. I'll take some, but... I grew up during the dot com boom all the way to the beginning of the Great Recession. So, I'm verrryy skeptical after growing up hearing 'stock market stock market' and then watching those same people get burned bad. Some of them really bad. Suddenly my CD earning 6% was a good deal lol.


...


But, yeah, once I get some time I need to sit down and figure a plan.

Where did you guys learn this? Your parents? Books? Friends? A mix?

That said, I don't have any equity. Like, no house, etc. I have my car paid for (not big on loans hehe). I might keep it that way as real estate down here is frickin' crazy. 2% property tax and insane prices. By the time I pay the tax and cost to maintain, I might as well be renting.

 

[ski2xblack]

Books: The Magic of Thinking Big (kinda why I like Irv's posts, he inspires big thinking, even if I disagree with his strategy); The Millionaire Next Door (about the financial habits of low key yet high net worth individuals). Bogle and Brennan's books are good as well.

I'm a Vanguard investor, so I subscribe to the independent "Vanguard Advisor" by Dan Wiener and Bob Brinker's newsletter, among others, and some financial rags (Barrons mainly). My father knew that I was one of those idealistic types, and he was right as I still haven't figured out what I want to be when I grow up, and I'm now mid 40's, so as a hedge he taught me finance. Nice gift. All you dads would serve your children well to do the same.

 

[ski2xblack]

Shweet! But if inflation stays like it is, it seems like I /have/ to be a millionaire just to be alright.

Ain't that the truth. Look at it this way: you're already part of the 1%. Really, you are, or at the very least quite a bit ahead of the curve.

 

[ImcLoud]

C'mon guys, who want's to get rich slowly? , starting with 200K done rite with all the chips on your side and not many mistakes you could be a millionaire in 10 years, then invest it how ever you want...

I'll never forget, I was 30 years old and my father asked how much money I had in the bank," I said I don't know, why"? He said how don't you know, how much you have in your bank account?" I said "because it changes all the time" He said "oh, so it goes up and down" I said "no, how would it go down? I get deposits made every month, but they are on different dates, and not normally the same amount" He said "how much are the deposits?" SO I pulled out my phone and pulled up my BOA account..
I said "OK, this week, $8K came from SFH {my heating co., me and my wife are on the payroll as pres and vp, we get bi weekly salary staggered so mine comes and then her hers comes, I pay my taxes at the end of the year, I don't let uncle sam hold my money for me}", and I want to say it was $30K from the realestate co back then, so my father looked at me and said "no seriously?" I said seriously dad, here it is, I have $62K in my checking account, but not for long it is going to get transferred to savings in a week or so".... So of course the next question was "how much do you have in savings"? I said "oh, thats easy, a little over 1.2 million" I thought he was going to pass out!!!

I have since invested much more, built my house, and stopped putting money in savings accounts.. My father never asked me again, I thought it was funny because my mother knew {they divorced a while back} because I used to ask her about certain things, and I paid off her mortgage before I paid off the one on the house I lived in...

The point is, if you are in the rite area, know how to get things done, and don't mind hard work, you can triple your money in 5 years... There are so many foreclosed homes that are not even on the market yet, you go take your realestate test {all areas a re different, some don't even have a test}, you do some research , find an area and focus buying up them multi families, you fix them and get them ready for rent, you advertise them and collect the rents....

I have 2 getting finished up this month {waiting on the windows, were special order to match the neighborhood and era, supposed to be delivered tomorrow 8a}, they were side by side I bought them 9 months apart from each other and rehabbed them both at once, a duplex and a 3 family, they should be done by Saturday and they are rented {ALL 5 UNITS} for the first, literally just waiting on the windows, the old ones are still in, the moldings are cut and ready to be nailed in after the new windows are installed, only one of the tenants didn't have her gas and electric turned on yet but she is a traveling nurse and doesn't get here until the 12th, but her first, and security check cleared 2 weeks ago so I don't care when she gets here, as long as the utilites are on before the house freezes, lol....

Them are my last 2 {I have said that a bunch of times}, they have no mortgages, I paid $58K and $40K for them, I did spend about $200K fixing them, BUT I can put them on the market tomorrow for $250K and $350K, but that would be insane, I don't need the money, I am confident in the tenants she picked {we had hundreds of applicants, these tenants were decided 2 months ago}, and the properties will profit $50K per year so in 10+ years i get what I could have sold them for and I still own them.....
I obviously no longer swing the hammer, so instead I sign payroll checks, but as long as it gets done...

I know and I have talked many people into doing this, I was talking about it to my family medicine doctor during a physical, about 3 days later he called me and wanted to meet... I said sure, come to my office, lol... He came and he is a very smart man, so I showed him a few things that I had going on... I happened to have a property that was being delayed by RI-DEM, so he said what is the deal with it, I explained, it was well water/septic and I converted it to city waste/ city water it was a single family that I got an awesome deal on, it needed a lot but it was in a great neighborhood, 3 minutes from a school, very dated, we did everything, and I showed hi pictures, BUT before I could get the CO {certificate of occupancy} they wanted to see the well was filled in and I didn't want to fill in the well because I hooked it into the sprinkler system {which is common, why pay city and sewer for water going on the lawn}.. I explained it should be taken care of within the week and I already have it rented but I was going to be paying for storage and a hotel for this family if I didn't have a co in 9 days!!!...

He asked what the house was worth and what the rent was, the house was worth around $280K rent was $1800 per month, I only did that house because I owned it right and fast and its an easy rent, I try to stay away from singles, although I have a bunch of them... So he asks me right there at my desk to sell him that house... I said WHAT?, he said sell me that house for $200K cash.... I said "why would I do that"? he said "you are a business man you double your money rite now"... So I said,, you want the house, and you have 200K, lets go look at it, so we jumped in my truck and ran over there, he loved it, not for him to live in but he loved the entire idea, that he could spend $200K, and collect around $1200 per month in profit on it, it was brand new and good for another 30 years before it needed anything, and it was worth $280 t any time...
I sold it to him for $225K 2 months later. The town released the co, the tenant was in, and I sold it for $125K profit, which uncle sam took $47000 of!!!! lol... but he is now a good friend of mine, he makes house calls for me and has the same tenant as I found for that place!!!! He bought 2 others, and subbed a lot of the work to me, I don't know all of the financial ins and outs of them, I am not sure if he bought them cash or mortgaged them, I have to say cash is the smart way, but mortgages are nice to get you going...


I know its not for everyone, but I also know that it is almost fool proof... Even if you just buy and flip, you can't loose, unless you know nothing about realestate and can't learn, or you try to save time and money and not do a title search to find out you bought a property for $52K that someone owed a 2nd mortgage of $38K on, that you have to pay off or loose your $52K, so now you are into a house for an extra $40K after legal... Ask me how I know NEVER to skip a title search, especially if its your cousins friends house, people lie, get it in writing... I still made money with that house, but it was nothing, I fixed it for around $20K it cost me almost $100K and I only sold it for $149,900, had it advertised for $190 for 3 months not one person came to see it, lol... I dropped it to $170 first offer I got was 149,9 and I took it...

Anyway, at 28 years old having a quarter of a million in the bank is silly, the us dollar is going down, you want to own tangible goods and property, they say you gain 10% what good is that? Even if youdon't factor in what 10% more buys you as the price of everything sky rockets, aren't you better off owning the things that are going up in value, rather than the money that is going down in value? If that doesn't make sense to you, then keep your money in the bank where yuo can't see it, can't touch it because early withdraw would mean penalties... If I spent everything I had and couldn't get a loan, I will take one of the houses I OWN and sell it, I can close on a property in 15 days, if I can keep the money in escrow until my lawyer does the title search and its a cash sale, I can do it today with a quit claim deed, then borrow against that escrow account.... Not that I would ever need money like that, but at least I know I can get it if i did...

The stock market is too risky for me, and to get any real gains you need to be into the high risk stuff, with houses there are no risks, you own the property, its insured, its constantly going up in value, and it makes you money when its rented.... If you could see the real numbers it would be an easy decision, it takes a strong mind to see what it can be... When you look for and find the first house, then it starts to be real, you rent it for the first time, and its even more real, then the rent checks come for $2000 and the building costs you $600 you made $1400 that month!!! Thats a weeks pay at a good job!!! You got an extra weeks pay... Now do that 4 times and you don't have to work, lol.. Do it 8 times and your wife doesn't have to work, do it 16 times and you can live on vacation... BUT you need the capital to start, the days where 0 down, creative financing, all that BS is gone. Now banks want their money, you have PMI {mortgage insurance}, back ground checks, panel checks, money has to have a solid trail, 24 months of reserve {I had a bank ask a client of mine for 24 months of reserve!!! WTF, I was like who has 24 months of reserve and $60K to be putting down, they would be buying the house cash, lol}... BUT if you have the cash, you can make the money...

Just for example this house 298 Heather St, Cranston, RI 02920 - Foreclosure for Sale - realtor.com® I can buy this house for $88K, belive it or not this can be a 3 family!!! I would rip out that heat and hot water equipment, and consolidate everything into wall hung equipment in a small area of the basement and each unit... I would remodel some and fix everything that needs fixing, update some, what ever I figured it in at $30K {that included making the 3rd basement unit} so I would be into the house for $118 ish... After all that is done the house would be worth around $180K, that means someone would come and buy it for themselves, have a $1500 mortgage {depending on down and apr}, rent the upstairs for $850 and the basement for $500 and live for almost free, but me I would pay cash and not have a mortgage, I will rent the apartments for $1000 first flr, $850 second, $500 bsmnt and after expenses and property tax I will clear $1800 {lowest} per month, so that $120K I just have sitting in the bank will NOW be getting me $1800 per month!!! I still have the money, its rite there in the house, remember I own the house, I bought it with my $120K and its now worth $180K but it also gets me $1800 per month!!!!! Which by the way that 1800 per month gets me my innitial $120K investment back in less than 6 years, so now after 6 years not only do I have my $120K back and still own the house that by now is worth $190K but I am still collecting 1800 per month!!!
So now lets think about it with a nice portfolio that you let a stranger design for you, you give him $120K and he gives you a binder with a bunch of notes and account numbers... Great... You are on you way to making 8% or maybe he made some bad decisions of the market does a little crash and all you have is that binder and them notes you can wipe your @ss with... Worse case in my business plan, you own a house worth $50K more than you paid for it...


I know its not for everyone, and it takes some guys to start out, its also kind of wasted on me because I don't spend money, I have an insane amount of assets, and I do nothing with them except work them, I sell something for $300K I am buying 4 more with that 300K and in 5 years Ill be selling them 4 for $300K each then that million and change will get pushed into another project... BIG and the BIGGER....

I am truthfully almost done, I have slowed way down, I am not going to buy anything for a few years.. I have no mortgages, just tax bills... As soon as I know what my kids want to do I will figure out what I want to do...

I have had some seriously attractive job offers, asset management, just what I just explained above, I was offered 20% of the yield with 11 million to invest, so that means if I can make that 11 million double in 5 years I would make almost $500K per year... I could keep my own businesses going and still invest that 11 mil, but I turned it down, I remember how hard it was starting with very little money, never mind starting with all that money, it would be much harder... Plus I am a risk taker and you put me behind the wheel of your 11 million dollar car we may end up in the wall...

 

[ski2xblack]

People who don't like to gamble prefer to get rich slowly, that's who. Unlike your capital and labor intensive real estate strategy, it's foolproof, just takes a bit longer. Compounding is a self-reinforcing feedback loop that will outstrip any alternative that I'm aware of in the long run. (That's not meant to denigrate your accomplishments, Irv, I like your example, but there is more than one way to skin a cat. Big picture, equities are now and historically have been superior to real estate as an asset class. And everyone can play, unlike real estate.)

 

[its phillip]

How should poor people start to make money?

 

[ski2xblack]

How should poor people start to make money?

Breaking the cycle of poverty requires discipline. Often the generation that does so at great personal sacrifice...only for the fruits of their efforts to be squandered by the next generations. Unfortunately, expensive things like college degrees equate to higher earning power, and yet folks like MindnightSensei manage to amass a quarter mil by age 30, so you can't tell me there is no opportunity to do so. Think positive thoughts, ony you can stop you (Michael Jordan reference). If folks like I can do it, and I'm a total misfit, anyone can.

 

[ImcLoud]

Heres the problem as I see it with equities...

You are owning something, correct? You are owning a piece of a business you have no control of, so some db pres can say, OK we are on our way out, million dollar bonuses for everyone, shut the lights we are done here....

Its a tin castle, I have looked into it, I have friends that lost Millions, I see it , my brother in law lost 650K one year, and then the next year bragged about making $250K, and said "its coming back", WTF is coming back your year of work that you just lost 650K for doing, you should have stayed in bed for them 365 days you would be 650K richer!!!!

Heres the thing, I started with mortgages, no money to speak of, and I'm under 35 with half that in millions worth of assets... No real education to speak of, a strong back, 2 bad shoulders, and some real estate classes... BUT BALLS THE SIZE OF TEXAS, I didn't have anyone spell it out for me , I took my silly little savings account and emptied it for a couple houses that had no copper piping or wire left in them!!! My parents never broke $60K combined income when I was growing up, I didn't come from a family of rich people, mother was a nurse father was a mechanic {changed here and there} with 4 kids, pretty simple story to follow, public school and as little of it as possible, I would rather be in the gym, or turning a pipe wrench than sitting in a class room...

Even if you had to hire someone to do the labor on the properties, you get the rite guys, sub and 1099 to cover yourself, insure the properties and get to work, the numbers don't lie, and I am talking about something you can put your hands on, not a dream someone sells you that if you don't get in or out at the right time you can lose it all... In my plan a house burns down you get insurance payments until its rebuilt, if a tenant doesn't pay you evict them in 3 weeks they are out and someone else is in, if a sink breaks you hire a plumber for $60 an hour to fix it, but them are the worse cases, all of which end with you still owning something worth more than you paid and getting paid every month to own it....

 

[ski2xblack]

Honestly, Irv, I don't think many have what it takes to do what you've done, you're an outlier. But anyone can do what I'm suggesting. Not many banks willing to loan to us average folks to take on three investment property mortgages, but anyone that lives below their means can buy equities. Holding when there is blood in the streets is an exercise that separates the men from the boys, of that there is no doubt.

 

[MidnightSensi2]

C'mon guys, who want's to get rich slowly? , starting with 200K done rite with all the chips on your side and not many mistakes you could be a millionaire in 10 years, then invest it how ever you want...

Heh, I don't gamble!

"how much do you have in savings"? I said "oh, thats easy, a little over 1.2 million" I thought he was going to pass out!!!

Nicely done. He must have been proud.

The point is, if you are in the rite area, know how to get things done, and don't mind hard work, you can triple your money in 5 years... There are so many foreclosed homes that are not even on the market yet, you go take your realestate test {all areas a re different, some don't even have a test}, you do some research , find an area and focus buying up them multi families, you fix them and get them ready for rent, you advertise them and collect the rents....

Real estate is risky in South Florida. There was the subprime stuff, now lots of the building condos I think are being bought up by South Americas laundering money, which could be a bubble in itself.

I get hired by some high end home sellers every once in a while for art direction of marketing material. lol, that's about as close as I get.

Anyway, at 28 years old having a quarter of a million in the bank is silly, the us dollar is going down, you want to own tangible goods and property, they say you gain 10% what good is that? Even if youdon't factor in what 10% more buys you as the price of everything sky rockets, aren't you better off owning the things that are going up in value, rather than the money that is going down in value?

Yeah, but my barrier to entry is pretty high for a home though. Stuff is expensive here.

Well, 10% is good enough? I mean, if I can live off the principal at a reasonable age.. absolutely! hehe

If that doesn't make sense to you, then keep your money in the bank where yuo can't see it, can't touch it because early withdraw would mean penalties... If I spent everything I had and couldn't get a loan, I will take one of the houses I OWN and sell it, I can close on a property in 15 days, if I can keep the money in escrow until my lawyer does the title search and its a cash sale, I can do it today with a quit claim deed, then borrow against that escrow account.... Not that I would ever need money like that, but at least I know I can get it if i did...

Yeah but I don't want to spend everything hehe.

The stock market is too risky for me, and to get any real gains you need to be into the high risk stuff

That's sort of been my concern.. it sort of feels like Vegas... and I don't like to gamble. But, I'd like to do something intelligent rather than my hodgepodge. Not sure what yet.

So now lets think about it with a nice portfolio that you let a stranger design for you, you give him $120K and he gives you a binder with a bunch of notes and account numbers... Great... You are on you way to making 8% or maybe he made some bad decisions of the market does a little crash and all you have is that binder and them notes you can wipe your @ss with...

Well, I didn't let anyone design anything YET. I did talk to them though. And yeah, that was kinda what I was left thinking... "so, I give you my money, and you might make 8% if things go well? And I pay you EVEN IF IT GOES DOWN?!" lol

 

[ImcLoud]

How should poor people start to make money?

Phillip, a friend of my brothers who I knew for a long ime while they were growing up asked me for work, so I asked what he knew how to do... he said he didn't know anything, so I said what have you done, he said "nothing".... I said "you have never done a thing?", his replay "no, I worked for a landscaper", I said great, so you know how to do that, he said he did.. I asked if he had good credit, he said he didn't know... Here is what I told him and I just went to his wedding where he mentioned this..

"Go get a home depot credit card, if they deny you bring me the letter saying they did and Ill let you borrow the money, if they give you the card, buy a weedwacker, lawn mower, gas can, gloves, blower, and one of them small trailers, then go cut grass for money..."
He was like WTF are you talking about,whos grass am I going to cut? I told him anyone with long grass needs it cut... He left my office with his little ford ranger and went to file for a credit card, well they gave him one with a $500 limit, so he went to lowes next, they gave him one with a 1200 limit, he bought a mower, a trialer, weedwacker, gas cans, string, all kinds of stuff, and came back to my office about 3 days later, the equipment was all dirty like it had been used...
He said "what should I charge to cut grass?" I said "why what have you been charging" he said "$10 a lawn", I was like thats not enough, he said "but I figure I worked for $10 an hour and I can do them faster than an hour..." I explained overhead and a few other things to him, then I made a phone call to a freind of mine that works for a company called safeguard, they used to handle all of the maintenance on foreclosed houses for fannie and freddie... I asked if she had any lawn cut jobs, she faxed me a list of 30 properties and wanted his business info, I let im borrow $900 for insurance, hooked him up with my guy, and he was on his way... He is bought his first house less than a year later {20 years old} and guess what, he never stopped listening to Irv, he bought a 3 family, rents the other 2 units and has 2 helpers, a new dually dump truck, all commercial equipment, ect... he is a real business, I am not sure what hes making but Ill bet its around $80K and living in his own house for free...

Anyone can do it, you take the smallest thing you know how to do, and you do it, do it until you can maybe do it for yourself, if you are a plasterer, work for a plaster company until you save enough money to start your own plaster co., then still work for the other guy but do your own thing until you have nough work where you can't work for the other guy, then take your money and save save save, until you can buy a house, bu a multi family and save save save until you can get another one, and the save save save and get more, its a snowball effect, and it works really well for people in the housing trade because you don't need much to get going, if you are a painter, you need a van and some paint brushes, lol... Its just one of them things where once you see how easy it is, you wonder why everyone doesn't do it... Like I do, why isn't everyone that read my post looking for foreclosed houses rite now...

I know there are a lot of people doing it, but they are flipping and looking for the fast money, and there are way more houses out there than people buying them, just look at realtor.com, if there were to many people doing it there would be no houses for sale... Floridas market is so good for it that I almost setup shop down there, lol...

 

[MidnightSensi2]

How should poor people start to make money?

Be mentally ill.

haha, half kidding. There seems to be many ways, I mean the stories on here are really varied. The only consensus seems to be live below your means.

I started by grinding...
Start to look into a side business. Don't let it sacrifice your bread maker. I tended to go for low overhead and not time-sensitive stuff for side businesses - because I had to, which probably shaped a lot of my practices now. Think about niches and micro-economies. You don't have to be a Silicon Valley type or anything..

Also, look into minimalism. I mean, not the 'style' but actually living minimally. It's cheaper and really relaxing to be free of clutter - and clutter costs something. Not sure if that makes sense.

Breaking the cycle of poverty requires discipline. Often the generation that does so at great personal sacrifice...

If folks like I can do it, and I'm a total misfit, anyone can.

lol. Being a misfit helps too.

...

ImcLoud you're nuts too, I can tell.

So.. that's three votes for mental illness? lol

 

[walter duque]

Maybe a good time to get a new pair of stereo speakers to go with it...

These are going to be the speakers for my 2 channel system.(They are not Walter proof). I was told I might destroy them. I am gonna chance it any way, just limit my volume level on my processors. BTW this pair went to Vietnam and the buyer requested that they be signed by the designer-builder, not as bad as a company as you assume.

 

[ImcLoud]

Be mentally ill.



So.. that's three votes for mental illness? lol

You may be onto something, when I first went on my own I was selling a 24K per year commercial service contract to a customer who never had one before, I asked him to look up his past annual service, I did it all so I know what he spent, I already had the info in my folder, I looked it up before recommending it.. He spent say 30,950 in service for the previous year he comes back in and says we spent 20950 exactly 10K less than what I knew he spent, and there was no 10K bill at once so I know he just took off 10K figuring I would lower the price of the contract...
Nice maneuver on his part, if you are willing to lie for it, which pissed me rite off because liars suck.... So I said great, I will sell you the contract for the exact amount of your last years service, worse case you spend the same as last year.. He says, "well thats no good" I have to pay it all up front, I said "no you don't give me the check and I wont deposit it until you get the service of its amount"... So now he is interested, he is not going to have to pay unless that amount gets met, that is un heard of, all the perks of a contract with no risk of over payment!!! So he says "OK" that sounds good... I said, "Oh, wait I forgot one thing", he asked what, I said "I don't do business with liars, especially liars that can look another man in the eye while he does it" He was like "what, I am not a liar" so I said "you secretary wrote down what you spent in service and you took $10K off the price" he said "the hell I did", he grabbed the paper off his desk and showed it to me it said the number he told me, so I took my paper out of my proposal and it also said that number, I was wrong, I must have been thinking 30 because the meeting was 9-30, totally my fault, and I made a huge douche of myself...

So I apologized and said, "well sir, I guess that is that, sorry about the whole liar thing, I wish you luck" he started laughing and said "you crazy sum *****, whats wrong with you, you come in another mans office and call him out to his face, Im 30 years older than you", So I replied "Sometimes I over think things with out thinking about them enough, hopefully my honesty and work ethics make up for it, otherwise I'm going to have one hungry family"... I shook his hand smiled and walked out the office.. He sent me a check and signed contract for the full amount, lol.. I still do work for him, and he has never brought it up again...