So what is going on in Missouri

[Rickster71]

... I like the idea of a camera on ever officer or at least constant audio, because I honestly think it is an issue, friends of ours that are police officers say the same thing, some of the guys "on the job" shouldn't be... These guys have to be held responsible, if they cross the line from public servant being paid to serve and protect to criminal or in anyway "pushing around their weight"...

...

I agree with the whole camera issue.

It's funny you mention the cameras.
Remember during the 1990s, Denny's was involved in a series of discrimination lawsuits?

I won't go into all the details or how I know first hand.
Long story short. Once the cameras were installed, they were still accused of not serving, etc. and attempted lawsuits continued.
That is, until the accusers were told, it was all on camera.
Hasn't been a problem since.

Human nature being what it is. The problem is a two way street.
People have been scum way before police were ever invented.

 

[Adam]

People have been scum way before police were ever invented.

Darwin would absolutely agree.

See how I made that scientific and not religious? Oh, yeah.

 

[ImcLoud]

People have been scum way before police were ever invented.

VERY TRUE, and police are "people" so its a lose lose...

 

[herbu]

Darwin would absolutely agree.
See how I made that scientific and not religious? Oh, yeah.

Now that's funny!

I'm sure the cops actions will be scrutinized and evaluated to the Nth degree. We'll learn what happened.
The thing I cannot justify or even understand is the community response. Multiple businesses vandalized and looted... last night one person shot. I understand frustration and anger. I even understand responding to violence with violence. But if I come from across town and attack your home, why would you possibly decide the appropriate response was to burn and rob your neighbor's house?

 

[Rickster71]

VERY TRUE, and police are "people" so its a lose lose...

Yes!
Exactly my point.
The police are just a sub-set.

 

[Adam]

The thing I cannot justify or even understand is the community response. Multiple businesses vandalized and looted... last night one person shot. I understand frustration and anger. I even understand responding to violence with violence. But if I come from across town and attack your home, why would you possibly decide the appropriate response was to burn and rob your neighbor's house?

I believe that I lot of it is opportunism. People see a way of taking something for free, or destroying something, that they think has a low probability of them getting into trouble. However, for all the criminals you see out there looting, there are untold numbers of folks still doing the right thing.

Also, as Agent K put it: "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it."

 

[ImcLoud]

we all remember rodney king, lol they destroyed their own neighborhood, no one cared about the cause it was an opportunity to get something for nothing and be destructive with a better chance of getting away with it. I am sure having a "cause" helped them justify it in their own minds but it was so wrong...

I honestly think race has a lot to do with how cops treat people, BUT I think its because they are programmed that way, look at the numbers...
a little over 2 million people in the us prisons almost half of them are black/hispanic when only 25% of the US population is black/hispanic, so if your job was checking speakers for bad voice coils and you had 100 cerwin vega speakers and 400 JBL's and out of them 500 speakers jbl had 15 bad coils but cv had 12 and only 25% the total number meaning out of 100 jbl's you will only have 3 bad coils.... So now your second time around you are going to treat the cerwin vegas different and check more of them, more often, and concentrate on them, so now you are going to catch them bad cv coils more because you are concentrating on them and putting more testers on them, so now the numbers get worse and worse, and more jbl's get by because we are not watching them as close, but not as many are bad...

Does that make sense?

 

[c.coyle]

I have no opinion, yet, on the Ferguson shooting, since I don't have all the facts, and neither do any of us. No matter what happened or didn't happen, the aftermath has highlighted the militarization of our local police departments from coast to coast. A troubling development. Radley Balko's The Rise of the Warrior Cop is worth reading. You can get it on Amazon.

I keep hearing Bob Seger's Lookin' Back. "When the war comes, cops will be on their side."

 

[herbu]

I believe that I lot of it is opportunism. People see a way of taking something for free, or destroying something, that they think has a low probability of them getting into trouble. However, for all the criminals you see out there looting, there are untold numbers of folks still doing the right thing.

Agree. The news this morning said that most of the crowd peacefully dispersed before the midnight curfew. About 200 young black males w/ bandanas over their faces stayed and did the violence. It's a shame those punks color the whole situation and community.

 

[gholt]

What a way to live. You're mad at the cops so, you destroy and loot your town.

 

[herbu]

Where in the world did they get all these Missouri policemen? First it was the local cops. The crowd, (at least the ones the media chose to put on TV), said, "We weren't doing anything, and the cops started to tear gas us". Then it was the State Police. Again, "We weren't doing anything, and the cops started to tear gas us". Now they've called in the National Guard. Let's see if the feds are any better. It can't be the crowd, or even just the ones on TV. I mean really... it can't be... can it?

 

[markw]

This is from CNN, nort exactly a conservative bastion.

"Gunfire, tear gas and Molotov cocktails Sunday night marked some of the fiercest clashes yet between police and protesters furious about the death of an unarmed teenager.
...
Some protesters hurled Molotov cocktails at police, and several businesses were vandalized or looted, despite the Brown family's call for calm"

Linky HERE

 

[Matt34]

Here's the thing with me and authority {police in general}, some of the guys are awesome, and some have something to prove or a chip on their shoulder... I like the idea of a camera on ever officer or at least constant audio, because I honestly think it is an issue, friends of ours that are police officers say the same thing, some of the guys "on the job" shouldn't be... These guys have to be held responsible, if they cross the line from public servant being paid to serve and protect to criminal or in anyway "pushing around their weight"...

We have a real issue here in our area, for example some of the local guys will remember this.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rReKf0tDvOM , sure the women is drunk and dissordly, but shes sitting on her cuffed hands on the ground, no real threat to the officer and he busts her face open with a snap kick.... If there was no camera rolling this would have never gone to court!!! Now if that was my wife I would be in jail for taking most of them guys apart, her husband just kind of stood there, I know I would have jumped on that guy with out a frist thought never mind a second thought it would have been instinct I would have just attacked him, I remember when I first watched the video I jumped in my chair.. Who kicks a women in the face?

Now don't get me wrong, we need police, and maybe .1% of them are douches, but there has to be a real consequence for acting unprofessional because when they do it people die... You can easily kill a women by kicking her in the head, my wife is 120lbs soaking wet if a man ever kicked her in the head she would be seriously injured and he would be shortly after, cop or not, I would have sunk my teeth into his face...

I've noticed it years ago working with civilian cops the mentality has shifted away from "To Protect and Serve" and turned into "Us vs. Them". I 100% believe every one of them should be wearing a video/audio recording device.

 

[ImcLoud]

OK, I want to share a video with you guys, like I always say they are NOT all bad, but here is a video that shows this female cop with a stick so far up her @ss its no longer removable from the back.... Then this cool @ss male cops comes by and laughs it off, then another douche comes up and thinks he smells pot, lol, proving 1 of every 3 cops is good...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VY4HObQw5Go

A friend of mine is a local in a neighboring town {we have state police here because my town is to small for its own dept.}, some of the local kids 16-18 thought it would be funny to run like heck when ever they seen a cop car, and of course the cop would chase them, then he would say "why did you run" and the kids would say things like "we just felt like Ruunninng {forest gump style}" they did it twice and one cop cuffed them all up took them to the station and pushed them around {no charges resulted BUT they got scrapped up from where he tossed them around, they were smart enough to go limp and not resist in anyway} and the other cop {my friend} laughed and made them share their gatorade with him because he was so out of breath after chasing them, and laughed it off...
I know the boys and their families and asked them at one of the games what they were thinking and one of them said "we were bored", so for some dumb kids being bored they could have ran accross the wrong cop and gotten much worse{they aren't dumb, one is going to Prtizker {don't know how to spell it} which is some med school that is 5th in the country, and the other 2 aren't too far behind, I know one is a piano genius and the other I don't know much about but is going to college somewhere}, so this story didn't end too bad, the kids learned a lesson and got a little scraped up, now what if the cop was a little more off, or cought him in a little worse mood, and choked one of the kids and he died because he was so mad... If we had monitored cameras and someone keeping an eye on things it would keep them doing their job not getting even or overreacting...

 

[Chu Gai]

I recall seeing several videos of female cops with sticks up their butts however they were all NSFW.

This is my summary of what I think I know to be true in this matter. Not in a strict chronological order though.

• Michael Baden's autopsy results contradict statements made by Michael Brown's friend in that he was not shot in the back. Strangely to me his clothes were not available for examination. I trust a full autopsy with toxicology will be done.
• Statements made by people who were there, eyewitnesses if you will, are not in accord.
• This link, http://www.yahoo.com/tv/news/michael-brown-shooting-witness-releases-video-knew-not-143600436.html seems to suggest that Michael Brown, who was 6'3"-6'5" weighing about 290, may have seriously provoked the police officer's response. It's not the video so much as the audio that was recorded.
• The police were more or less replaced by the State police and now we've got that ratcheted up by the National Guard. What's next, Army Rangers?
• Al Sharpton showed up, no surprise, but interestingly he didn't stand with the protesters when it got late. I used to think Neil Cavuto had a big head for his body. Al looks like a bobble head doll.
• The New Black Panther Party showed up and led the crowd in a chant calling for the death of the police officer.
• Jessie Jackson showed up, gave a speech, and then asked for donations for his church or something. People in attendance basically told him to fvck off and get lost. Haven't seen that aspect covered in the mainstream media.
• Brown seemed to be well liked by his friends and family. Mother said he graduated HS, albeit it was an effort, and was said to be going to college. No word if he had applied and been accepted. No idea if he had a job. No idea if he'd done anything that involved charges in the past. He won't be the first nice person that robbed a store though.
• The theft of cigars by physical force was reported to the police and subsequently broadcast to the police force. Did this broadcast happen before the officer ran into Brown?
• I assume the officer's car was recording. If so, any audio or video that's relevant to the matter?
• Seems like a good move to have this be investigated outside of the PD.

 

[herbu]

So now the National Guard, and still tear gas, 2 more people shot and more businesses burned. Guess it proves how bad cops are. The new report that NO cop fired their weapon has to be wrong, else how did 2 people get shot? Now BHO is sending Eric Holder. That will finally fix it. Thank Goodness.

They say some of the troublemakers are outsiders from as far a California. Who are these people? Who brings them in? Why?

It is interesting to me that the people who disparage the cops, always say something like, "Most cops are good, but...". I believe most people are good. That includes doctors, teachers, lawyers, Mexicans, Chinese, blacks, whites and cops. If you believe most cops are good, why is your inclination to blame the cops when something like Missouri happens? We don't know the facts, yet your initial response is to cite examples of bad cop behavior? Why? Isn't that called bigotry and prejudice? And here I thought those were the exclusive domain of conservatives.

 

[MidnightSensi2]

So now the National Guard, and still tear gas, 2 more people shot and more businesses burned. Guess it proves how bad cops are. The new report that NO cop fired their weapon has to be wrong, else how did 2 people get shot? Now BHO is sending Eric Holder. That will finally fix it. Thank Goodness.

They say some of the troublemakers are outsiders from as far a California. Who are these people? Who brings them in? Why?

It is interesting to me that the people who disparage the cops, always say something like, "Most cops are good, but...". I believe most people are good. That includes doctors, teachers, lawyers, Mexicans, Chinese, blacks, whites and cops. If you believe most cops are good, why is your inclination to blame the cops when something like Missouri happens? We don't know the facts, yet your initial response is to cite examples of bad cop behavior? Why? Isn't that called bigotry and prejudice? And here I thought those were the exclusive domain of conservatives.

You raise a really good question, herbu. I mean, where do the trouble makers come from? Is their motivation justice or is it just social contagion?

Couple things about police as a whole (not not necessarily as individuals, obviously):
1. They have DOUBLE the average rate for domestic abuse.
2. Police have a high rate of psychopaths. Note that not all psychopaths are bad, there are lots of functioning psychopaths. For example, being a trauma surgeon requires making decisions where having psychopathic traits may be an advantage for both the patient and the doctors psych (i.e. if a patient dies on the table, a highly sensitive type might be unable to keep working, when we really need that surgeon to keep working to save the lives they can save). The same might be true for a good policeman - where tough choices sometimes require setting empathy aside - or choosing the 'least bad option.'


3. They're PEOPLE. Did this guy over react? We may find out to some degree, but, if he did.. does that mean he's a racist? Or was he just a 28 year old HUMAN scared of another human that is much bigger and acting in a threatening manner? If cops were not afraid, they'd be way more likely to die. I was amazed at people watching the video surprised that the officer looked upset .. I'd be weirded out if he DIDN'T look upset. He just shot someone! He was likely in fear of his life! Of course he's going to be pacing and looking upset. That sounds pretty normal to me. (i.e. not psychopathic heh).
4. A lot of the inequality in the police force, the actual officers don't have control over.


Side note:
And if people are going to continue to go to these protests when others are being violent, then they shouldn't be surprised if they get a rubber bullet or tear gassed. It's sort of like complaining about Florida being hot in August.

Oh, and for the love of ****, two hospital masks and some damn charcoal in a wet paper towel. Put them between the masks and wa-la, you have a gas mask. Cover your skin completely. Wash your skin if it comes in contact with gas. These people can't even fight the man right.

 

[itschris]

Having just recently been a foreman for a week long Murder/Attempted Murder trial where one girl was shot point blank in the face and another in the chest then in thigh which shattered her leg and made her cripple... all over a $10 drug deal dispute that wasn't even the guy's to collect... I got a very real, unfiltered view to the mindset and culture that plagues these types of areas. South St. Petersburg has become a cesspool where cops respond to "shots fired" calls daily. It was a life changing experience that stomped almost all hope out of me. When the trial was over... and having been under guard the entire time and being police escorted everywhere, I left with the pure belief that these communities are beyond hope. They are overun by animals who keep the good people of the community living in fear. They have no respect for life and they prove it everyday.

Like Trayvon, this was just an innocent kid... a teddy bear... volunteer... Eagle Scout... just minding his own business when police confronted him for no reason whatsoever... he obeyed the officer and respectfully put his hands up in the air and the cop just smirked and gunned him down. Yes... I'm certain that what's happened here. Do the mobs actually believe their own lies or do they think we're as stupid as they are and will believe them?

I'd like to know on what planet you should be able to hurl a molotov cocktail... a fire bomb... at anybody and live to tell about it. If I were to walk up to a cop directing traffic with a flaming bottle of liquid and begin the motion of throwing it at him, I'd fully expect to be shot... as I or anyone should. Oddly, in Ferguson, (and other riots) it's somehow accepted as an expression of cultural disparity. I'd like to know what the cops dodging those think about that.

I'd like to know how many black youths were murdered by black youths in the past year in Ferguson and surrounding cities. Any marches then? Anyone call Jesse or Al then? No... they were probably angry with the cops then too because they didn't do enough to prevent their inncocent sweet baby who was dealing drugs on the corner from getting croaked by a 9mm.

Odd that the agrieved can only show the world their sadness by burning down stores and stealing tv's. Perhaps the time for summits and discussion is over. Lot of good it does... much like trying to reason with terrorists. Look at the videos there... when I see a black kid... anyone for that matter... cover their face and pick up a rock in their hand... I think it's safe to assume they're displaying the universal sign that something violent and illegal is about to take place. I admire the police for standing there and taking the abuse and showing the restraint they have. "Overreaction?" Hardly. Clearly we're past discussing anything and enough is enough. They have put on their display and have "expressed" themselves and it's been tolerated. Now it's time to shut it down. The good people should now just stay home. Any further violence should be met with crushing force. Set a tone. Punch the bully in eye and the bully is no more. If they want to be martyrs... make it happen.

I sat with my neighbor last night, a very good friend... and yes... he is black... watching yet another night of violence on the news. You could literally see his heart sink because he's watching these people undo all that respectable black people like him have done for their culture. As a commander in the Sherrif's department he's seen it all. We talked about the fundamental difference that if a white person commits crime or murders or whatever and he is arrested, shot, whatever... the white mindset is "Great! He got what was coming to him... deserved it and now we're all a little safer." but if the same happens to a black person... by who they deem to be the wrong people... they'd rather defend the offensive behavior, even if it's violent distructive behavior, to make some sort of point that no longer even exists. He's crestfallen by the damage this is causing.

Thank you Ferguson for pushing racial harmony back 20 years.

 

[lsiberian]

I wonder if PCP is an issue in that area. Would explain why he kept shooting.

 

[Chu Gai]

Are you saying the cop was on PCP?