Room EQ systems for AVP/AVR users thread

[PENG]

I am not aware of a thread for Room EQ systems such as Anthem ARC, Audyssey, YPAO, MCACC, Trinnov, minidsp etc., so I hope this won't be a duplicate. Since those systems are often packaged with AVPs and AVRs, I think this is the right place for it. If not, I am counting on mods to move it to where they think it belongs.

There are no shortage of information for Audyssey but no so much for the others. I can't find anything for the MCACC and YPAO systems other than owner's thread and those from the Pioneer and Yamaha's websites.

It would be great to know what others think of their Room Eq systems including users who may not like what Room EQ software, such as Audyssey does to their preferred sound, but still use some of their features such as DEQ while bypassing them for the front L/R channels. I know ADTG is one of those who do just that, i.e. bypass FL/R by loves DEQ.

For me, I have always been happy with Audyssey's performance in setting up my sub. Now I am even more impressed as it turns out SubEQHT has done a very good job setting up my PC12U with the newly acquired PB13U.

So please tell us what system you use, and share your thoughts and comments on their effectiveness/performances. If you know of any good reads on the less popular systems such as MCACC and YPAO, please add to the following collection of links.

Feature News Stories: Automated Room Correction Explained

http://www.anthemav.com/downloads/ARC-1_PDS.pdf

ABSOLUTE AUDIO & VISUAL - Anthem Room Correction (ARC) for the Anthem D1 and D2 SSP

Ultra Audio "TWBAS" -- Getting Real: Anthem Room Correction and Anthem Statement D2 Audio/Video Processor (7/2008)

Anthem Room Correction (ARC) System - Part 1 - HomeTheaterHiFi.com

MultEQ | Audyssey

How to MultEQ | Audyssey

https://audyssey.zendesk.com/forums/84181-Audyssey-101

https://audyssey.zendesk.com/entries/73284-microphone-placement

https://audyssey.zendesk.com/entries/76175-Subwoofer-setup-and-MultEQ

https://audyssey.zendesk.com/entries/105628-MultEQ-Pro-vs-MultEQ-XT-and-MultEQ-XT3

Audyssey MultEQ FAQ and Setup Guide - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

Acoustic Correction | Trinnov Audio

Loudspeaker/Room Optimization | Trinnov Audio

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showth...e-Audio-vs-Audyssey-MultiEQ-XT-vs-Parc-vs-ARC

http://forums.audioholics.com/forum...5-review-dual-sub-eq-minidsp-audyssey-xt.html

http://www.audioproducts.com.au/downloadcenter/DOCs/brochures/denon/AudysseyFAQweb.pdf

 

[GIEGAR]

Great idea PENG!

There's also Dirac Live.

Here are a few links I've got so far:

ON ROOM CORRECTION AND EQUALIZATION OF SOUND SYSTEMS (.pdf)

Dirac Series | MiniDSP

Getting Started with the Dirac Series audio processors | MiniDSP

Emotiva XMC-1 - Beyond all expectations.

XTZ S-800 DSP Black - XTZ, Swedish Design, DSP, Speakers

Music in the Round #66 | Stereophile.com

Hands On: Datasat Brings Commercial-Cinema Audio to Home Theaters - Spotlight Article from CE Pro

Dirac Live Room Correction Suite | AudioStream

 

[PENG]

Some graphs of REQ off vs on would be nice! I'll post mine when I have spare time to figure out how.
Where's rojo when we need him?

 

[rnatalli]

Here's a link to a page on Secrets about Anthem's ARC:

Anthem Room Correction (ARC) System - Part 1 - HomeTheaterHiFi.com

ARC is definitely my favorite with Audyssey XT32 very close behind.

 

[herbu]

I only have experience w/ Yamaha YPAO and Denon Audyssey MultiEQ XT32.
The YPAO was with a 5.1 system and fairly inexpensive speakers. I was satisfied, but had no real basis of comparison.
Then I went to XT32, and at the same time, 7.2 and more expensive speakers. Again, and to this day, I am satisfied. Quite a bit of time has been spent reading and experimenting w/ XT32, and my conclusion is that the initial settings are a good starting point. I'll fiddle w/ individual speaker volumes, go back, fiddle again, play w/ various settings like flat/normal/l+r bypass, etc. But it's nice to have the original Audyssey settings to return to and start fiddling again. The one thing I never change is the Audyssey measurement of speaker distance.

 

[Adam]

I've used MCACC and Audyssey Bronze. I think both do a great job, but I'll only use MCACC for now because it can store multiple configurations (for my three distinctly different listening positions) and Audyssey - at least in the five receivers that I tried - cannot. I find it a disappointing limitation, given how little extra cost it would entail to allow multiple configurations.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I have tried Audyssey XT on many of my speakers. In my HT & Family rooms, the Audyssey XT room EQ itself (Audyssey vs Audyssey Flat) does little for me because I can't tell any improvement (if any).

But Audyssey Sub EQ & Dynamic EQ do a fantastic job with the bass/subwoofers.

I think Audyssey Flat sounds better than Audyssey. And I can't tell the difference between Audyssey Flat vs Audyssey Bypass L/R. So I use Audyssey Bypass L/R + Dynamic EQ.

I hate what Dynamic Volume does (dynamic compression) - it cuts off the peak in the music.

I have also tried other room correction software in my house from other brands of AVRs (under $1,000) from Pioneer, Sony, HK, Yamaha. And (by memory) I thought they were all terrible. Bypass was always absolutely better for me.

I have heard ARC on Anthem pre-pro at a dealer and at a house of one of my brother's friend. And like Audyssey Flat, I really could not tell any difference between Bypass vs. ARC. I did not play with it much.

I have not heard other RC software (Trinnov, Dirac, etc.).

I keep hearing that so-and-so RC software is the best or better than the rest. That remains to be seen. Every company say they have the best.

But so far, the only thing that has significantly impressed me is Dynamic EQ & the Sub EQ from Audyssey, not the room correction software itself from any company.

 

[fuzz092888]

I've used Audyssey XT and XT 32, MCACC, and Dirac. I've also used miniDSP as a subwoofer correction and speaker correction. I also have an anti-mode dual core 2.0 which can EQ 1 sub, 2 subs, stereo subs, or stereo speakers.

I like Audyssey, but it does have its limitations. I still have my sights set on Audyssey Pro when I can afford it. MCACC I really only ran the auto cal once for someone else, but it seemed half decent. IIRC, and it was awhile ago, I didn't feel that Dirac was worth the extra money over miniDSP. Dirac easily had the better UI and I believe it had more filters, plus I think you could save as many configurations as your hard drive could hold and would do some other stuff as well. However, the premium cost of the software, plus the need for a high end sound card with inputs and outputs, with dedicated PC for the setup meant it was well beyond what most people could afford and I didn't feel that it blew REW and miniDSP away. I felt the REW autocorrect worked almost as well, that you could get pretty darn good results with it if you took the time to experiment with the parameters a bit. However, with enough cash Dirac could be an extremely interesting solution, especially if they are able to scale up the software to more than 8 channels.

Then there's the antimode. It works pretty well, but the screen is tiny and, again, I'm not sure it works any better than Audyssey subEQ in terms of an auto cal nor do I think the user interface, both the hardware and software, are good enough to make it worth spending almost $800 more than a USB mic, miniDSP 2X4, plug in, and downloading REW.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Adam]

MCACC...seemed half decent.

Half decent? Half?! Man, if you didn't have 50+ pounds of muscle on me, it would be ON!

 

[darien87]

I wasn't a huge fan of Audyssey in my Marantz AV7005. I'll let you know how Dirac works out for me when I get my XMC-1 and have it installed.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

We need someone to share their experience with the Audyssey Pro Calibration Kit.

A dealer friend of mine says that the Phase Technology DARTs speaker system is the best he has ever heard. And I think they use Audyssey Pro.

IMAX theaters also use Audyssey Pro.

 

[TheoN]

I am not aware of a thread for Room EQ systems such as Anthem ARC, Audyssey, YPAO, MCACC, Trinnov, minidsp etc., so I hope this won't be a duplicate. Since those systems are often packaged with AVPs and AVRs, I think this is the right place for it. If not, I am counting on mods to move it to where they think it belongs.

There are no shortage of information for Audyssey but no so much for the others. I can't find anything for the MCACC and YPAO systems other than owner's thread and those from the Pioneer and Yamaha's websites.

It would be great to know what others think of their Room Eq systems including users who may not like what Room EQ software, such as Audyssey does to their preferred sound, but still use some of their features such as DEQ while bypassing them for the front L/R channels. I know ADTG is one of those who do just that, i.e. bypass FL/R by loves DEQ.

For me, I have always been happy with Audyssey's performance in setting up my sub. Now I am even more impressed as it turns out SubEQHT has done a very good job setting up my PC12U with the newly acquired PB13U.

So please tell us what system you use, and share your thoughts and comments on their effectiveness/performances. If you know of any good reads on the less popular systems such as MCACC and YPAO, please add to the following collection of links.

I hope Gene doesn't mind me letting the cat out of the bag a bit here , but we're working on such a series of articles right now with different EQ systems. I'm personally a huge, huge fan of ARC. I've used it for many years with great success. It has its limitations and, to their credit, Anthem is pretty forthright about what those limitations are (for example, over 5kHz results are sketchy). You'll see more of that in the forthcoming article.

I experienced the entry level of YPAO for the first time when I had the Yamaha RX-V577 in for review. That model comes with the entry level version and only does measurements at a single listening position. For what it did, it wasn't bad at all. And as a quick shot for an entry level user, it's really a good solution. I didn't like the fact that I couldn't see what it was doing visually. I find the data feedback with ARC to be helpful.

Personally, I don't find that the room EQ solutions are a panacea for all acoustic problems or for poor speaker placement. I think they unequivocally shine in addressing problems under 200Hz.

 

[PENG]

This is a FR graph of Audyssey Off Vs On for my front left speaker. There isn't must difference. There was even less difference before I moved the front speakers closer to make room or the second sub.

 

[PENG]

Here's a link to a page on Secrets about Anthem's ARC:

Anthem Room Correction (ARC) System - Part 1 - HomeTheaterHiFi.com

ARC is definitely my favorite with Audyssey XT32 very close behind.

I did include the same link, the 5th one down on my list, but thanks regardless.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

This is a FR graph of Audyssey Off Vs On for my front left speaker. There isn't must difference. There was even less difference before I moved the front speakers closer to make room or the second sub.

How does Dynamic EQ look compared to this?

Flat and smooth is supposed to sound the best (at least to some people). But even if DEQ doesn't look flat and smooth, I would still use DEQ because the actual good sound is salient.

 

[fuzz092888]

Half decent? Half?! Man, if you didn't have 50+ pounds of muscle on me, it would be ON!

1. I haven't worked out in like a month so I'm more "other" stuff than muscle at the moment. 2. I sure hope I don't weigh 50lbs more than you at X inches shorter

Although I will say that having a gut makes finding a spot to rest a drink or a remote quite convenient

 

[rnatalli]

I did include the same link, the 5th one down on my list, but thanks regardless.

Oops... That'll teach me to post before having my coffee.

Here are my graphs from ARC:

 

[PENG]

Oops... That'll teach me to post before having my coffee.

I am having a coffee right at this moment so I can post again right? Thanks a lot for sharing those graphs of yours. I would love to have ARC too but I guess one can't have it both ways, not easily anyway.

I tried to post the graphs for my subs but got the message the file exceeded the size. That is strange because the sub file size is smaller than the left speaker size that got accepted. I will figure it out somehow.

 

[rnatalli]

I am having a coffee right at this moment so I can post again right? By the way, I would love to see some graphs of your subs that I assume have been calibrated by the renowned Anthem ARC. I want to post mine but AH seems to have a very low limit on what picture I can post. I won't let me after I posted the one for the left speaker. Something's wrong but I will figure it out.

You read my mind. See what coffee can do I was uploading my graphs while you were typing your post! I also have a manual profile where I stop the EQ above 500hz, allow the sub to run flat down low, and set a slightly higher crossover on the speakers.

 

[PENG]

How does Dynamic EQ look compared to this?

Flat and smooth is supposed to sound the best (at least to some people). But even if DEQ doesn't look flat and smooth, I would still use DEQ because the actual good sound is salient.

That is a great queston! It was in fact one of the first thing I wanted to find out. Don't you worry anyway because with DEQ engaged the graph looks the same except the lower frequencies got elevated such that within the ranges (forgot where it dropped off) it was still smooth, not flat obviously but the shape remains the same. It is hard to explain but I will post the graph once I figure out how this weekend. Now that confirmed why I was able to enjoy it even when listening to music now, of course at lower levels only. When I listen to jazz music I use the 5 db offset as I am not a bass addict like you.