Bicycles: Hazard or Traffic?

H

herbu

Audioholic Samurai
Hazard
I have nothing against bicycles. I’ve ridden one all my life. But it used to be that bicycle riders knew they were not only vulnerable, but could be a hazard at worst and an impediment at best to cars on the road. Roads are for cars. Roads are built and maintained w/ car & gas taxes. Lane dimensions are for cars & trucks. Most lanes do not have room for a car going 45mph and a bicycle going 15mph, especially in traffic or when the road is 2-lane and curvy.

Some people on bicycles today seem to think they are entitled to the road, regardless of how it infringes on the rights of cars for which it was built. They don’t obey traffic laws, yet expect me to. They travel in herds on roads where it is impossible to pass for miles. They demand their right-of-way from cars, yet refuse to give the same to pedestrians. They are arrogant, discourteous, and a hazard. Bicycles should not willfully and regularly impede traffic.

Traffic
Bicycles ARE “traffic”. We were using road before cars were even invented. We pay the same taxes and have the same rights as people in cars. We try to stay to the right and give as much room as possible to motorized vehicles, yet they sideswipe us, run us into ditches, blow horns, throw things at us, and generally terrorize us.

We use bicycle lanes where available. We use bicycle paths and greenways. But sometimes we like to ride a distance, and that is only possible on roads. A long ride on a quiet country road, especially with friends, is not only good exercise and quite pleasant, it is our right and within the law. You should put down your cigarette, get out of your La-Z-Boy, and try it sometime.
 
Lulimet

Lulimet

Full Audioholic
Hazard no doubt. I think people riding bicycles on roads (especially narrow country roads) are completely nuts and are risking their lives.
 
M

markw

Audioholic Overlord
bikes are good but, true to the course. some bike ridres are true aholes. We were in Colombus, Ohio recently and they have bike lanes where bikers are supposed to have the right of way. Now, these are the width of car lanes so when the car lane is closed, there is no placeelse for carsto go. One richard chose to lollygag right in the middle of the bike lane and holding his finger up thereby holding everyone in cars behind him to about five miles per hour. ...until a cop saw him doing that.
 
Adam

Adam

Audioholic Jedi
The Tucson area is very "bike friendly" in that a lot of roads have bike lanes. Most cyclists and drivers respect each other and follow the rules, and it works well. I'll admit that I get a bit annoyed when one decides to get into a turn lane in front of me, but I don't know what the rules are anymore. When I was growing up, bikes were supposed to use the crosswalks.

Of course, you have the occasional individual or group of a-holes that decides the bike lane is more of a suggestion than a designated area. "Hey, since there are a bunch of us, I'm going to have that pack mentality of 'Eff you' to all the cars that are trying to drive by as I swerve a few feet out of the bike lane." Imagine if cars did that in rush hour. "Hey, there's a bunch of us, so I'm just going to drive on the sidewalk." (Yeah, I know they actually do that in some places.) I'd love to see them get ticketed for not obeying the rules and, IMO, just not being courteous to other folks who are also just trying to get somewhere.

I don't recall ever seeing a person in a car pull a jerk move on a cyclist here, but I have once or twice seen someone drift over towards one so close that I actually felt scared - but I think they do that because they are looking at the cyclist and just naturally start going towards them. Btw, that used to happen to me and Niki when she'd walk a lot and we'd be walking in the bike lane. It taught me not to make eye contact with people driving by, because the ones who made eye contact back tended to more often start heading towards us because they were focused on us.
 
Rickster71

Rickster71

Audioholic Spartan
I used to be an avid bike rider. Not so much now, too much traffic.

Me thinks it's a sign of the times, the invariable sense of entitlement that seems to have come along with the 21st Century.

I've noticed it with both pedestrians and bike riders.
People just step off the curb, in a crosswalk or not, walking very slowly, smugly staring you down.
I've had it happen the other day. Two high school age kids watched my approach for a quarter mile (wide open straight road and no traffic except me) just as I got within 30 ft the both stepped off the curb and very slowly walked across the street.

Back when I rode my bike I would ride single file when I heard traffic approach. Now bikes ride four abreast doing 25 MPH with their middle finger up.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
Hazard. Even on mixed use trails many cyclists are the epitome of road rage. I'm an avid cyclist and there are some other cyclists I want chase down - all males - make a citizen's arrest, and drag their butts to a police station. The ones who ride on winding, two-lane roads are a danger to themselves and everyone around them.

I've mentioned to some people I know who ride the local two-lane roads that if I'm trying to pass them in a car by crossing a double-yellow line and miscalculate, so I have to move over to avoid a head-on collision, because some maniac I couldn't see is speeding along in the other direction, I won't hesitate to hit the cyclist to avoid being in a 50-plus mph head-on crash. They all look surprised, like I'm being unreasonable. What would they expect?
 
Speedskater

Speedskater

Audioholic General
I would say that car driver's and cell phones are the hazards! I know of three skilled bike riders that were hit by cars on wide enough low traffic roads. The three car drivers were in their own neighborhood. Results - one dead and two serious injuries.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
If you want to ride your bikes in close proximity to multi-ton pieces of steel rushing by you at 50 mph, be my guest. All I can say is that is not my idea of a good time. They are so vulnerable that they have to be considered a hazard in areas which are not bicyclist friendly ie no bike lanes.
 
H

herbu

Audioholic Samurai
My bicycler friends all have horror stories about aggressive/dangerous car drivers. Most car drivers have the same about bicyclers. I try to be courteous to the bicycles. I'll toot the horn when I'm coming up on one so he knows I'm there. They usually move over as much as they can. It is the herds that get my goat. They seem to delight in causing you inconvenience.

One day after supper, my wife and I went for a walk on our nearest paved road. We live in the country... 2 lane, sort of hilly and curvy. No traffic at the time, until a herd of probably 30-40 bicycles came. We were on the edge of the pavement, but did not step off into the high grass, causing the herd to have to swerve a little, as they were riding 2-3 abreast. As they passed, they loudly cursed us for not getting out of their way.

They want cars to yield to them, and they want pedestrians to yield to them. They are alone at the very top of the right-of-way food chain, and everybody else must accommodate them. That was when I chose sides. Now I wonder what would happen if somebody accidentally spilled a box of thumbtacks on the road.
 
adk highlander

adk highlander

Sith Lord
Really tacks on the road? People here need to know the traffic laws. That bike has as much right to the road as a driver. I have spent thousands of hours on the road and have had every bad experience possible. It is easy to be a bully in a one ton machine against a bike. There are a$$ hats on bikes but compared to divers they are 1 in 100. When we ride we always try and ride single file and go over as much as we can but if there is on coming traffic you need to slow down and pass safe. Where Iive we have several races per year and an Ironman race so everyday you will encounter 10-20 riders. The motto here is share the road. If I see cyclists not singling up we talk to them and they get it. Try and talk to a driver after they run you off the road and it is always the cyclists fault. Some of you should get out so you can understand the beauty of riding through several towns and spending time with your thoughts and pushing your limits in one of the toughest sports in the world.
 
H

herbu

Audioholic Samurai
When we ride we always try and ride single file
It is not the case here. As few as 2 riders often ride abreast, and don't fall into single file even after I toot to let them know I'm coming. (Sometimes they do.) And groups greater than 4-5 almost always spread out to take the whole lane. I'm not talking about rights. I'm talking about courtesy. But isn't there a point where my rights become suspect when they infringe upon your rights?

Regarding "spending time with your thoughts", somehow it's hard to believe that contemplation is the goal when there are more loud conversations in those herds than on a school bus. 20-50 people wearing neon spandex, shouting to each other in 10 different conversations, blocking traffic for miles and totally oblivious or unconcerned about anyone else... I don't believe the quiet contemplation you mention is an issue here.
 
Steve81

Steve81

Audioholics Five-0
I'm not talking about rights. I'm talking about courtesy. But isn't there a point where my rights become suspect when they infringe upon your rights?
I would imagine the traffic laws of most jurisdictions include something about impeding the flow of traffic (Maryland does in any case). Minimum speed limits may also be applicable. Fortunately in my area, bikers have a reasonable number of riding paths to choose from (some that run 10+ miles), so it's not a major issue.
 
Rickster71

Rickster71

Audioholic Spartan
My first post was about the sense of entitlement and I'm sticking with it.:D

Cars vs bikes, that just a subset of the real problem.
I see the same a-holes out grocery shopping in Costco. They leave their cart sideways across the aisle, while pondering the purchase of a gallon of mayonnaise.
They think they're in the world and store totally alone.

So, before we throw out the baby with the bath water, and the thread devolves into an 'Us' vs 'Them' thread.
Remember, people don't need a bike, or a car, or even a shopping cart, to be a self centered, entitled jerk.
 
C

cpd

Full Audioholic
It is not the case here. As few as 2 riders often ride abreast, and don't fall into single file even after I toot to let them know I'm coming. (Sometimes they do.) And groups greater than 4-5 almost always spread out to take the whole lane. I'm not talking about rights. I'm talking about courtesy. But isn't there a point where my rights become suspect when they infringe upon your rights?

Regarding "spending time with your thoughts", somehow it's hard to believe that contemplation is the goal when there are more loud conversations in those herds than on a school bus. 20-50 people wearing neon spandex, shouting to each other in 10 different conversations, blocking traffic for miles and totally oblivious or unconcerned about anyone else... I don't believe the quiet contemplation you mention is an issue here.
I was actually deep in thought on this topic just this morning on my morning ride. :D

I don't know where you all live or what the laws are there, but in Wisconsin bicyclists have as much right to the road as any motor vehicle. In fact, additional protections are afforded them (as it should be since they are riding 15-30 pound machines while auto drivers are operating 3000-5000 pound machines). The DOT here actually instructs cyclists to "take the lane" because there is much less risk of injury. The law further requires cars passing cyclists to leave at least 3 feet distance between them and the cyclist.

I don't think it is "discourteous" for a cyclist to obey local law even if that impedes the motoring public. If they do not obey the law that is another story, but more times than not I find the majority of discourtesy coming from motorists who are mad that they had to wait for a clean space to get around a bike. I have been almost T-boned by a police SUV who decided (without lights and sirens) to run a red light, and then refused to even acknowledge me when I looked in his window at the next stop light and shrugged at him. I have been honked at and had cars pass me in two lane roads with half their vehicle over the lane line just to give me a scare (despite the left lane being wide open). Just this morning, an oncoming truck found it hilarious to turn on his brights 100 feet in front of me. He hadn't had them on for the prior 1/2 mile that I could see him.

Simply put, here state law tells me I can, and state agencies suggest that I ride in the middle of the lane. If you want to call that discourteous, fine, I call it safe cycling practice. I am not going to put myself in further danger to ease the passing of a car-- which by the way, is a pretty simple matter. Unless you live near many world class cyclists, the riders you encounter are likely traveling under 20-25 mph. It is not much of a task for a vehicle to make that pass. Although it sounds simple to suggest that cyclists hug the shoulder (and when it is possible I do move over to ease passing), that ignores the increased risk of cross traffic obstacles which are easier for a cyclist to see and react to from the center. It also ignores the fact that there is much more road debris (gravel, glass, cans, etc.) near the shoulder.

I think this all boils down to patience, of which most of us (including myself) find it increasingly more difficult to maintain. I ride very early in the morning as a result of my work schedule. That gives me the added benefit of avoiding as many motorists as possible. I will admit that I don't obey all traffic lights at that time of day. When I ride during the day, I absolutely do. I feel that in the morning, there is no reason to sit and wait at a light when there is nobody around. I also understand that a lot of cyclists do not obey the rules of the road regardless of the time of day. That frustrates me when I am driving and as a cyclist and understand it can have an effect on patience. Still, in most circumstances I think motorists just need to understand that they have the upper hand and should exercise more restraint.

That said, if a peloton of club riders are taking up the entire road and riding with their fingers up, call the cops. They give cyclists a bad name. Just do me a favor, and pay attention to and similarly report the jerks that infringe on cyclists' safety as well.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
cpd, I don't mean to be critical of your choice of transportation, but aren't you worried about getting clipped by a careless driver? There is certainly no shortage of them. I can understand the appeal of using a bicycle for your commute, but some of the people I see driving make it too scary to be worth it for myself.
 
adk highlander

adk highlander

Sith Lord
cpd, I don't mean to be critical of your choice of transportation, but aren't you worried about getting clipped by a careless driver? There is certainly no shortage of them. I can understand the appeal of using a bicycle for your commute, but some of the people I see driving make it too scary to be worth it for myself.
If we are going to be afraid of every "what if" in life none of us would ever go outside. In fact road riding is probably the safest sport I do. Mtn. biking and skiing are way more dangerous.

In our area there are articles every spring in the paper to remind everyone to share the road and everyone needs to respect each other. There are always going to be people who on both sides who refuse to be cool. I don't have a death wish but I NEED to ride my bike and some little 10 mile bike path is not going to cut it. I cannot express the feelings of well being I get after a 3.5-4 hour ride and going past that point where you think you cannot make it to the top of the mountain and you keep going and do it.

Another point would be if more people got off their butt in the morning and commuted on their bikes like in many European countries we would not even need this conversation. Heck compared to Scotland the roads around the US are downright wide. Try riding on roads that are mainly single lane with big buses cruising at 70 mph. Now that is freaking scary.
 
C

cpd

Full Audioholic
cpd, I don't mean to be critical of your choice of transportation, but aren't you worried about getting clipped by a careless driver? There is certainly no shortage of them. I can understand the appeal of using a bicycle for your commute, but some of the people I see driving make it too scary to be worth it for myself.
I don't commute to work by bike. Due to the length of my drive to work, I actually have to get up very early to ride my bike (on my bike by around 4:15 a.m. most days). Although I live in a city, there are not many motorists out that early. Still, I am always worried about getting clipped. Even for the few cars I see at that time (usually around 40), I try to be hyper-vigilant. All the more reason to ride in the middle of the road, use bright lights, check behind you etc.

I guess it boils down to what is an acceptable risk for the things you enjoy/have to do. People ride motorcycles, jump out of air planes, smoke cigarettes...and drive cars. All of those activities contain some level of risk. Personally, I think the risk I take at the time I ride is worth the enjoyment. If I had to ride during rush hour, my risk would go up and enjoyment would go down. I don't know if I would do that every day.

But now that we are discussing this, I better take the day off tomorrow out of respect for Murphy's Law. :D
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
Sounds like I might just live in an area that isn't great for bicycling. On the roads where I live, I have to shake my head when I see a cyclist on the road at a busy hour. Glad to hear you are playing it safe. Maybe I have seen too many nasty accidents for my own good.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
I don't think it is "discourteous" for a cyclist to obey local law even if that impedes the motoring public.
Whether you like it or not, that is exactly the attitude that infuriates many drivers, even drivers who are also cyclists. Sometimes it is not a question of whether we legally can do something, it is sometimes a question of whether we should do something. Call a behavior whatever we want, but if many are inconvenienced for the asserted rights of one or a few there will be strife. Whether or not impatient drivers are right or wrong, if they do something stupid out of frustration and cause harm I think the cyclist who asserts their rights at inopportune times is partially at fault.

As a cyclist and a motorist one thought I try to erase from my mind is that when I'm riding I'm somehow on morally higher ground than when I'm driving. I think that's a mistake too many cyclists make.
 
Steve81

Steve81

Audioholics Five-0
I would imagine the traffic laws of most jurisdictions include something about impeding the flow of traffic (Maryland does in any case). Minimum speed limits may also be applicable. Fortunately in my area, bikers have a reasonable number of riding paths to choose from (some that run 10+ miles), so it's not a major issue.
Some applicable laws in the state of Wisconsin:
https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/346/IX/59/2
346.59 Minimum speed regulation. (2) The operator of a vehicle moving at a speed so slow as to impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic shall, if practicable, yield the roadway to an overtaking vehicle whenever the operator of the overtaking vehicle gives audible warning with a warning device and shall move at a reasonably increased speed or yield the roadway to overtaking vehicles when directed to do so by a traffic officer.
https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/346/IX/60/5/b
346.60 Penalty for violating sections 346.57 to 346.595.
(5)(b) Any operator of a bicycle or electric personal assistive mobility device who violates s. 346.59 (duty to obey minimum speed) may be required to forfeit not more than $10.
Harsh penalty :D
 
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