RBH Sound SX-1212P/R Subwoofer Review

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Small sealed subs with high output and deep extension require much more than audessey can provide. To achieve the desired results of a JL or velodyne out of the box with an off the shelf amp would also require a powerful deq/managment system.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I'd opine that the more critical piece is the limiters / protection that a custom amp provides, particularly with a vented subwoofer. It takes less power than you'd expect to bottom a woofer being fed a lot of content below port tune.

Good point for vented designs.

 

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There is no difference between an internal amp vs external amp. You could put the same DSP/XO/Limiter in an external amp. The Funk 18.2 sub uses an external DSP/XO/amp.

I'm sure proponents of active speakers will say that there is no way passive speakers + external amps could perform like active speakers with their special engineered match of drivers + DSP/XO/amp. And loudspeakers are a lot more complex than subwoofers. So if you're comparing sub amps to car engines, let's compare loudspeakers to a B1 Stealth Bomber engine.

The difference is the manufacturer took the time to properly configure the setup.

 

[Irvrobinson]

There is no difference between an internal amp vs external amp. You could put the same DSP/XO/Limiter in an external amp. The Funk 18.2 sub uses an external DSP/XO/amp.

I'm sure proponents of active speakers will say that there is no way passive speakers + external amps could perform like active speakers with their special engineered match of drivers + DSP/XO/amp. And loudspeakers are a lot more complex than subwoofers. So if you're comparing sub amps to car engines, let's compare loudspeakers to a B1 Stealth Bomber engine.

You have completely misconstrued my point. An amp is an amp, but the subwoofer-specific amps also have design-specific engineering that goes into EQ and crossovers that typically aren't available otherwise. Whether that engineering is physically internal or external to the subwoofer cabinet is irrelevant.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The difference is the manufacturer took the time to properly configure the setup.

You have completely misconstrued my point. An amp is an amp, but the subwoofer-specific amps also have design-specific engineering that goes into EQ and crossovers that typically aren't available otherwise. Whether that engineering is physically internal or external to the subwoofer cabinet is irrelevant.

So why doesn't everyone buy speakers with internal amps with design-specific engineering that goes into EQ and crossovers that typically aren't available otherwise and because the manufacturers took the time to properly configure the setup?

People should not use their own amps, room EQ (Audyssey, ARC, Trinnov, etc.), Sub EQ, DSP, etc., because the manufacturers know best about how the sound should be in your own room?

 

[Irvrobinson]

So why doesn't everyone buy speakers with internal amps because the manufacturers took the time to properly configure the setup?

Because full-spectrum loudspeakers include passive crossovers.

 

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So why doesn't everyone buy speakers with internal amps because the manufacturers took the time to properly configure the setup?

I think you will find a large percentage of enthusiasts prefer an active speaker. My point was to subs only, and specifically extremely small high output low extension subs. Your point to the Funk subs is taken, however they are more than likely in an optimal enclosure. A Jf113 would love a larger enclosure but that's not what sells them.

 

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Because full-spectrum loudspeakers include passive crossovers.

This should conclude today's speaker design lessons

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

This is what I call "double standard".

I guess it's only natural for people to support whatever they use themselves.

Actually all subs are active, even the ones without internal amps. Just like the Linkwitz Orion is active, even though the amp is external.

 

[Irvrobinson]

This is what I call "double standard".

I guess it's only natural for people to support whatever they use themselves.

Actually all subs are active, even the ones without internal amps. Just like the Linkwitz Orion is active, even though the amp is external.

You don't get to pass go or collect $200 today. Your Funk Audio subs were not active, they were indeed passive. And, no, not all of us argue a perspective just because we invested in it. I've had more than my share of investment regrets.

One odd observation, this silly forum has made me want a more powerful sub than the DD18+. Not because I need a more powerful sub, or that I'm even stressing the DD18+ with my music-only regimen, just because there are more powerful subs. Sometimes I'm so dumb.

 

[crossedover]

This is what I call "double standard".

I guess it's only natural for people to support whatever they use themselves.

Actually all subs are active, even the ones without internal amps. Just like the Linkwitz Orion is active, even though the amp is external.

Excellent point on the orion! BTW did you ever run it without Dynamic EQ?
Linkiwitz spent many hours on that crossover, and I truly enjoy all of his white papers. Just a note from my understanding most all ribbon tweeters require a passive crossover.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

You don't get to pass go or collect $200 today. Your Funk Audio subs were not active, they were indeed passive. And, no, not all of us argue a perspective just because we invested in it. I've had more than my share of investment regrets.

One odd observation, this silly forum has made me want a more powerful sub than the DD18+. Not because I need a more powerful sub, or that I'm even stressing the DD18+ with my music-only regimen, just because there are more powerful subs. Sometimes I'm so dumb.

This silly forum made my buy $400 headphones, even thou my old existing pair of Fostex was already really good

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Excellent point on the orion! BTW did you ever run it without Dynamic EQ?
Linkiwitz spent many hours on that crossover, and I truly enjoy all of his white papers. Just a note from my understanding most all ribbon tweeters require a passive crossover.

I've been using the Orion (2.0 mode) exclusively now and will be using for probably 6 more weeks. It is by far the longest time I've spent listening to them. No Audyssey DEQ for the Orion. The Orion Analog Signal Processor/XO allows tweaking of the treble and bass. I've played with it. But ended up setting to default levels, which I guess is flat.

Sometimes I forget they are only 2.0. The sound is very enveloping.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Your Funk Audio subs were not active, they were indeed passive.

All subwoofers are by definition "active" because the crossover comes BEFORE the amplifier.

Just because the amp is external does NOT make the subwoofer or speaker PASSIVE.

 

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All subwoofers are by definition "active" because the crossover comes BEFORE the amplifier.

Just because the amp is external does NOT make the subwoofer or speaker PASSIVE.

Oh come on, active amplification is not active management system. I'd bet you dollars to doughnuts that an active deq system with the RBH subs would yield superior results than any avr system ...

 

[Irvrobinson]

All subwoofers are by definition "active" because the crossover comes BEFORE the amplifier.

Just because the amp is external does NOT make the subwoofer or speaker PASSIVE.

Alright, I need to get out my shampoo for split ends, but I'll concede your point.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Oh come on, active amplification is not active management system. I'd bet you dollars to doughnuts that an active deq system with the RBH subs would yield superior results than any avr system ...

I don't know. Think my Denon AVP-A1HDCI's DEQ sounds pretty darn good.

 

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I don't know. Think my Denon AVP-A1HDCI's DEQ sounds pretty darn good.

You win! Can't be judicious about it. If it were me I'd take a different approach to it, since im not *bows* you da man

 

[Sheep]

All subwoofers are by definition "active" because the crossover comes BEFORE the amplifier.

Just because the amp is external does NOT make the subwoofer or speaker PASSIVE.

I think that would be splitting hairs. If I bought a subwoofer.... say the RBH N/whateveritdoesn'thaveanamp version, and put it in a room with only a line level signal, it would be passive. I can't power it from from the signal alone, and if I ran puredirect that signal would not be crossed over (there goes your point). I believe that is the correct use of the phrase "passive". Not passive aggressive like everyone's wife, but passive, as in that signal needs something to make the speaker play. It's also so widely used that everyone knows what it means. If you start up a speaker company... lets say.... Acudefinitelynotdeftech Guys speakers, and say all your subs are active, and ship them with 2 binding posts.... you're getting sued.

Also, those small velodyne's with huge amps need them, and all the respective DEQ/filters/etc to make them play the way they do. Just look for yourself (this is mine).

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I don't know. Think my Denon AVP-A1HDCI's DEQ sounds pretty darn good.

I'm with ADTG here, Proper sub EQ is not rocket science. If one is adventurous enough to got with outboard amp, might as well throw in mini dsp, measuring mic and few hours of making horrible noises
One could EQ for the driver/box, but external EQ could adjust for the room, which is something most subs lack - or at least not very granular