Age old question of towers vs In Wall

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Matty333

Audiophyte
Hello all,

First time poster needing help with system as home is in process f being built.
I am fortunate to not have to deal with WAF (wife acceptance factor) as my girl is extremely cool. I am contemplating "in wall" vs free or tower speaker system for surround sound system. My priorities are movies and music. I can stretch my budget up to right around 10k for equipment and installation.

What do you recommend as far as In wall vs free standing? Also what brands and or systems?? I met with an installer today that recommended Episode speakers (in wall). Never heard of them until today. Installers seem to love them. I personally have read a ton about the klipsch thx ultra 2 and also the lower priced rF-82. The thx ultra 2is a little outside my budget and it also seems just a tad bulky for a living room.

I'm pretty lost as to what company to give my money to so any and all opinions would be greatly appreciated...especially on the topic of in wall vs tower

Thanks guys.

Matty
 
Ponzio

Ponzio

Audioholic Samurai
Matty start with …

Yamaha RX-A3030 (between $1500 to $2000 – shop around)
RX-A3030 - AVENTAGE - Audio & Visual - Products - Yamaha United States
Oppo BDP-105 ($1200)
Amazon.com: OPPO BDP-105 Universal Audiophile 3D Blu-ray Player (Black): Electronics

… which leaves you with $7300 to $6800 to spend on A/V furniture, speaker stands/mounts for rear surround speakers, miscellaneous interconnects (speaker wire [the thicker the AWG (gauge), the better] & banana plugs, RCA analog connectors, HDMI cable(s),etc.; recommend Blue Jeans cables) and 2 main front tower/floor-stander speakers (it’s a no-brainer vs. in-wall speakers), matching brand/series channel center speaker, 2 rear surround bookshelf speaker’s (don’t go crazy with the budget on these and there is no need on matching the brand/series of your LCR speakers in the front) and a subwoofer or two (recommend SVS brand) for an initial 5.1/5.2 setup, which you can expand to a 7.1/7.2 or more, depending on how much a home theater fan you are.

We could all sit here and tell you to buy this or that brand/model speakers and we would all be guessing at the size/acoustics of your room and your preferred aesthetics and sound quality. I recommend you go shopping to as many local B&M (brick and mortar) shops and start demoing as many speakers that you can. Narrow it down to 3 brand/models and then start doing some research on their specs and pricing and then check out some internet direct speaker brands if you feel you can do better spec/pricing/aesthetics wise and request a demo (you will have to pay shipping them back if you decide not to keep them with most ID [internet direct] brands; depending on the weight, this can be anywhere from $50 to $150).

It all comes down to, how much is your time worth? You can pay an installer to do all of this for you, in which case a quarter to a third of your budget will go to him/her or you can do it yourself, realize the savings and get better results. It may sound daunting to take on the task but luckily for you the folks here at AH are more than happy to help in your education and when completed the sense of accomplishment is priceless.

Your move … Good luck, whatever you decide.
 
JohnnieB

JohnnieB

Senior Audioholic
Ponzio: Well stated.

Oh and, welcome to the nut house, ahem, forum. :D
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
What is your room size and layout? Seating distance? TV or projector/screen? Dedicated room with 4 walls and 1 double door?

For AVR, I like the Denon X4000 or upcoming X4100.

For speakers & subs, I personally like the RBH SX systems.

But there are many great brands, including Revel, KEF, Atlantic Technology, Phase Technology - all have both towers and in-walls. There are many more brands, but these are just a few.
 
M

markw

Audioholic Overlord
Aside from the specifics of what equipment, it all boils down to one question: What's more important, invisible speakers or good sound. If it's the former, then the in-wall speakers are what you want. If it's the latter, then floor (or stand mount) speakers are what you're after.

In either case, a sub is mandatory.

Now, get the GF a nice bottle of wine and discuss this with her.
 

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herbu

Audioholic Samurai
I'm pretty lost as to what company to give my money to so any and all opinions would be greatly appreciated...especially on the topic of in wall vs tower
To me, towers or bookshelves are a 10x better choice than in-wall, (and you can spend hours reading this forum about speaker recommendations).
Assume the quality of both are equal, (from what I know, they're not... but just say).
With the built-ins:
1) You're stuck w/ whatever speaker position you chose. What happens when furniture changes or moves? Where will the "sweet spot" for listening be... exactly where you decide to put your La-Z-Boy?
2) Upgrades will be difficult. If you're the kind of guy who is willing to invest $10k to start, it is a better than safe bet your inclination will evolve over time. Since the speakers are the most critical part of your system, and the biggest bang for your buck w/ upgrades, you will be hard pressed with satisfactory upgrades for your holes in the wall. Either you fit the existing holes, or cut bigger... repeat.
3) 5.1? 7.2? 11.2? Atmos? What if you cut holes in your wall for your desired configuration now, and it changes 5 years from now?

My suggestion: Instead of cutting holes in the walls, have the floorer cut 1" holes in the floor along the perimeter of the room about every 6 feet, and plug/patch them with some kind of nice looking removeable plug/patch. (I simply cut a slit in the carpet and drilled down through the floor.) Cut a couple extra in the area where you plan to put your TV/AVR/Bluray/Amp/Etc. You can use these holes to run all your speaker cables under the floor, (in the crawlspace or basement), and have the flexibility to place whatever speakers and subwoofers wherever you want today. And you can add or move them easily down the road.
 
agarwalro

agarwalro

Audioholic Ninja
I am fortunate to not have to deal with WAF
Two companies to investigate, JTR Speakers and Seaton Sound. Both have relatively low WAF yet highly regarded for movie dynamics and accuracy.

JTR's are very high on sensitivity, so you can use mid range receiver with them.
Seaton Catalyst are active speakers, so you can use a pre-pro instead of receiver.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
That is NOT an age old question; In-wall is a never for mains. Installers who recommend in-wall for mains should be reconsidered, especially when there is no WAF.
 
M

Matty333

Audiophyte
Wow...great info from all guys. I really appreciate it! I guess my brief consideration of "in wall" has been put to rest. That was easy.

Now I just have to embrace my new compulsion,...er, I mean "hobby," and figure out what my ears like the most. One more addiction...just what I need.

Here's a little more info on the new build if anyone wants to add anything as far as advice. The floors are a modern poured concrete (one of the reasons I was looking at in walls) and the living room measures about 18 x 12.5. It bleeds further back from that 12.5 into the kitchen and dining area so I guess it's like one big great room. We may be dealing with some vaulted ceilings as well. Do not care about the sound in dining or kitchen though...my primary concern is just the t.v/living room area.

Television is. 60 inch Samsung DLP (?) that I bought about 12 months ago and at the time it was the largest panel they sold. Now I think they make 70 and maybe 80. I will most likely be keeping that.

Thanks again. I live in Austin TX so any reputable shop or local audiophiles that you know of would be helpful too.

Thanks tons

Matty.
 
M

markw

Audioholic Overlord
The electronics will pretty much take care of themselves but listen to every speaker you can find. They determine your needs for a receiver/amplifier.

I did a google search on "Aaudio shops in austin tx" and got a few hits. You might want to try that but, whatever, go to the big-box stores and listen to whatever you can find to get a feel for what's outthere. Best Buy has (at least out here) a "higher end" section removed fromt he hustle and bustle of the main sales floor that has a pretty decent selection of geat to start with.

You're lucky that you have Waterloo but I'm still miffed that they closed Cheapos a few blocks up on Lamarr. Te three half priced book stores are a good thing. I wish ee had them here.
 
Hookedonc4

Hookedonc4

Audioholic
There are a lot of good inwalls. I feel we sacrifice nothing with our inwalls.

Good luck with what ever you choose...
 
walter duque

walter duque

Audioholic Samurai
There are a lot of good inwalls. I feel we sacrifice nothing with our inwalls.

Good luck with what ever you choose...
I have listened to a few in walls my self and some blow a lot a tower speakers away by a long shot.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I bet 99% of audiophiles have not even heard more than 1% of all the in-wall speakers available.

So most of us are probably basing our negative opinions of in-walls on probably the 1% we've actually heard. :D
 
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cpp

cpp

Audioholic Ninja
I bet 99% of audiophiles have not even heard more than 1% of all the in-wall speakers available.

So most of us are probably basing our negative opinions of in-walls based on probably the 1% we've actually heard. :D
I wish I still had my old home that had BG Radia's in-wall and in-ceiling speakers and Radia sub's in the dedicated HT room.. Sounded really really good.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
I bet 99% of audiophiles have not even heard more than 1% of all the in-wall speakers available.

So most of us are probably basing our negative opinions of in-walls based on probably the 1% we've actually heard. :D
Speaker quality usually isn't the issue, improper placement based on aesthetics, improper height for listening, etc... are.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Speaker quality usually isn't the issue, improper placement based on aesthetics, improper height for listening, etc... are.
Of course, all that matters. But most of the time we don't go to a dealer, sit down on the couch, listen to in-wall speakers and do a blind comparison. :D

I also assume there is some degree of compromise to in-walls.

But do we automatically assume all in-wall systems sound significantly inferior ?

I would assume the best in-walls are probably inferior to the best in-rooms to some degree. But the significance is equivocal. If the consumer feels the difference is insignificant, then it is insignificant.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I wish I still had my old home that had BG Radia's in-wall and in-ceiling speakers and Radia sub's in the dedicated HT room.. Sounded really really good.
I think one of my friends said he has heard in-wall BG Radia speakers (? model #) and thought the BG Radia speakers sounded better than Revel Salon2 and KEF 207/2.

So to him, in-wall speakers are not inferior to in-room speakers at all.

Of course, I still prefer formidable big bad in-room tall towers over wimpy looking in-walls. :p :D
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
Hello all,

First time poster needing help with system as home is in process f being built.
I am fortunate to not have to deal with WAF (wife acceptance factor) as my girl is extremely cool. I am contemplating "in wall" vs free or tower speaker system for surround sound system. My priorities are movies and music. I can stretch my budget up to right around 10k for equipment and installation.

What do you recommend as far as In wall vs free standing? Also what brands and or systems?? I met with an installer today that recommended Episode speakers (in wall). Never heard of them until today. Installers seem to love them. I personally have read a ton about the klipsch thx ultra 2 and also the lower priced rF-82. The thx ultra 2is a little outside my budget and it also seems just a tad bulky for a living room.

I'm pretty lost as to what company to give my money to so any and all opinions would be greatly appreciated...especially on the topic of in wall vs tower

Thanks guys.

Matty
I would go with free standing speakers if WAF isn't a factor because of several factors:
1) Hard to get a vibration free in-wall cabinet and harder to make the wall resonant and vibration free. A resonating/vibrating wall mucks up the sound
2) Dispersion gets all mucked up which affects imaging which is very important with music.


People either hate or love Klipsch. There is no in between. I would seriously audition them with music to see if you handle the brightness of their tweeter horns.

Other companies I would look at are PSB, Emotiva, Salk, Assends, Revel, KEF, B&W, etc.

What I would do is to take a pad of paper with you, write down the make and model of each speaker you audition and what you liked and disliked about the speakers you were auditioning. Was the bass tight and deep or was it boomy and loose sounding? Were the mids life like or were they hollow or just too pronounced? Was the treble irritating and harsh or were they dark and not revealing or were they smooth that made you want to listen for more? How was the imaging?

Bring music with you that you are very familiar with and know quite well. To make it easier to audition HT speaker systems, listen to the main speakers in 2 channel mode with music. Music is much harder to reproduce accurately then a movie soundtrack so if the speakers do well with music, then they will do well with HT. Speakers that do HT well may not do well with music. When auditioning the center channel of the same brand and series as the main speakers, pick a difficult source like an announcer that mumbles a lot. If you can understand what the mumbling announcer is saying, then you have a good center channel.

I would go to speciality stores first and start auditioning speakers first instead of going to the internet first. Once your likes are determined, you can mention them here and fellow members can make internet brand recommendations based on your likes/dislikes. The speciality stores are better setup acoustically then the big box stores which will make auditioning a little easier. It will give you an idea of what you like in a speaker.

Keep track of what amp or receiver is powering the speakers you're auditioning. Try to get a receiver/amp that closest resembles what you have or want to get. It just reduces another variable when auditioning speakers.


One thing to keep note off; when auditioning speakers, make sure the volume levels are matched between the different speaker pairs because the louder speaker pair will always sound better. Listen to levels that you think you would listen to most of the time because that’s how you are going to be using them most of the time.
 
M

markw

Audioholic Overlord
Speaker quality usually isn't the issue, improper placement based on aesthetics, improper height for listening, etc... are.
This pretty much sums up my thinking on this subject but, looking at this logically, OP has two posts to his credit, both on this thread, and hasn't returned in two weeks. Y'all may be beating a dead horse.
 
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