Best Configuration for Music out of your receiver?

[bizmord]

Hi guys ...


So I tested around 5 different receivers ... Yamaha, Marantz, Denon, Onkyo ... etc ... I settled on Denon 4311 mainly for it's sound during movies and regular cable TV ... music was never it's strong suite (maybe it's my fault for not configuring it right).


For music best receiver I had was Marantz 7005 i believe.


On my Denon I tried Pure direct (doesn't include Sub), Stereo (not great), Standard (decent but not great), All Channels (ehh, Yamaha does better job with that).




Anyway .,.... I am still hoping that the problem is simply in the set up.
You guys are much more knowledgeable about this.
What would you suggest trying??? other than going back to Marantz.

 

[cpp]

I also have the 4311 (heck at one time I had two, one feeding a dedicated HT room and the other feeding TV and family room use. I've tried all the setting and for me its a nice HT AVR but for music, well I had a Marantz AV8801 at the house Wed and all I did was hook it up the same as my DENON (HDMI) placed a CD in the player and bingo, it was just more musical than the Denon.

Remember DIRECT or PURE DIRECT mode will disable all bass management, which means that your front L/R speakers will get a full-range signal. The only difference between DIRECT and PURE DIRECT mode is that PURE DIRECT shuts off all the video circuitry, including the display on the receiver itself

For your Denon, this guy has pretty much gone through the workings of the 4311. http://batpigworld.com/fadq.html

 

[herbu]

On my Denon I tried Pure direct (doesn't include Sub)

Set your sub to "LFE+Main" and Direct/Pure Direct will include the sub(s).

 

[ImcLoud]

I have gone through this a bunch of times, direct mode, stereo, ect to me avr's dont play music as good as a more direct method.. Not sure why... Its not even that it sounds bad, just not the same... In music I noticed if you keep the signal path as simple as possible you get better sound... For example when I had my 2000+ $ yammy avr, I tried all the settings for music and I could never get it rite, it either sounded lifeless or like someone did a bad job eq'ing it and the mids were too pronounced... The lows and highs seemed to be about the same for some reason {bass was light without the sub and heavy with it {but with it could at least be adjusted}...

So after some playing around with it and not being happy I had the salesman/tech come to the house and see what i was doing wrong.. He played with settings for almost a half our and had the same result, he tried more things that me, even moving the speakers around 5 or 6 times... Nothing helped... So he first gave me the idea, he said lets try an integrated amp with a cd player and make sure it is not the room or the speakers...

We did and it sounded perfect.... So the i-amp he brought over was $7K and I obviously didn't buy that one BUT I started with a less expensive model and I used that amp to power my mains with the cd player not running through the avr.. It worked, then shortly after I built my first music only system, and I WILL NEVER go back to an all in one.. I am not very serious about HT, I run my ascend/HSU setup and it sounds awesome for movies, but for the life of me I can't make music that I am happy with in there...

My taste in sound hasn't changed but the equipment I use to get me there has, I used to be in love with towers, they are impressive and look expensive and sound good, BUT then I added subs and after some trial and error I figured out how to cross them {as low as you can with 95-100 being the highest} and that more subs is better for sound {you will never pickup the sub if there are at least 2, with one placement is tough and you can tell the sub is making the lows with 2 they are invisible}... Then I discovered bookshelfs for myself, with a pair of subs is music magic...

So keeping the signal path super short works for me, no eq, no video circuitry, just source and amplifier {have the volume control in either one, either a cd player/dac/mp3/ect with a volume control or an integrated amp. I also use a preamp if I am going to have multiple sources.. Others like the avr's to power music systems so it all depends on your ears, I belive the difference is in the processor because I have used the internal amp of one of my avr's to power a pair of towers before and they sounded good {I unplugged the "U" jumpers and plugged my pre directly into it bypassing the internal pro}...

So anyway, don't beat yourself up about it, its probably the avr not the settings, although I would try every setting, maybe you can find something you can live with...

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I listen to 2.1 music.

I set Surround mode to Stereo. Audyssey bypass L/R. Dynamic EQ on. Dynamic Volume off. Speakers to small. XO 80Hz. Sub to LFE/THX (not LFE + Main).

In the Audio Setup/2Ch/Direct, I set to Speakers Small, XO 80Hz, Sub to LFE/THX (instead of LFE+Main).

 

[cpp]

For your Denon, this guy has pretty much gone through the workings of the 4311. BATPIG'S DENON-TO-ENGLISH DICTIONARY

 

[bizmord]

I have gone through this a bunch of times, direct mode, stereo, ect to me avr's dont play music as good as a more direct method.. Not sure why... Its not even that it sounds bad, just not the same... In music I noticed if you keep the signal path as simple as possible you get better sound... For example when I had my 2000+ $ yammy avr, I tried all the settings for music and I could never get it rite, it either sounded lifeless or like someone did a bad job eq'ing it and the mids were too pronounced... The lows and highs seemed to be about the same for some reason {bass was light without the sub and heavy with it {but with it could at least be adjusted}...

So after some playing around with it and not being happy I had the salesman/tech come to the house and see what i was doing wrong.. He played with settings for almost a half our and had the same result, he tried more things that me, even moving the speakers around 5 or 6 times... Nothing helped... So he first gave me the idea, he said lets try an integrated amp with a cd player and make sure it is not the room or the speakers...

We did and it sounded perfect.... So the i-amp he brought over was $7K and I obviously didn't buy that one BUT I started with a less expensive model and I used that amp to power my mains with the cd player not running through the avr.. It worked, then shortly after I built my first music only system, and I WILL NEVER go back to an all in one.. I am not very serious about HT, I run my ascend/HSU setup and it sounds awesome for movies, but for the life of me I can't make music that I am happy with in there...

My taste in sound hasn't changed but the equipment I use to get me there has, I used to be in love with towers, they are impressive and look expensive and sound good, BUT then I added subs and after some trial and error I figured out how to cross them {as low as you can with 95-100 being the highest} and that more subs is better for sound {you will never pickup the sub if there are at least 2, with one placement is tough and you can tell the sub is making the lows with 2 they are invisible}... Then I discovered bookshelfs for myself, with a pair of subs is music magic...

So keeping the signal path super short works for me, no eq, no video circuitry, just source and amplifier {have the volume control in either one, either a cd player/dac/mp3/ect with a volume control or an integrated amp. I also use a preamp if I am going to have multiple sources.. Others like the avr's to power music systems so it all depends on your ears, I belive the difference is in the processor because I have used the internal amp of one of my avr's to power a pair of towers before and they sounded good {I unplugged the "U" jumpers and plugged my pre directly into it bypassing the internal pro}...

So anyway, don't beat yourself up about it, its probably the avr not the settings, although I would try every setting, maybe you can find something you can live with...

Yea, my friend gave me his SACD Player that I use sometimes and sound from there seems to be the best ... BUT for some reason lately I am unable to change setting to anything other than CD EXT.IN showing on the display of my AVR. I think it's because I change settings on CD player to be the processor because I got some SACDs and someone suggested letting the CD player do the processing. Can that be the problem?

I listen to 2.1 music.

I set Surround mode to Stereo. Audyssey bypass L/R. Dynamic EQ on. Dynamic Volume off. Speakers to small. XO 80Hz. Sub to LFE/THX (not LFE + Main).

In the Audio Setup/2Ch/Direct, I set to Speakers Small, XO 80Hz, Sub to LFE/THX (instead of LFE+Main).

I'll try this later today

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

You know everyone says the speakers are salient. But the subwoofer and processor matter just as much.

You could have the best speakers in the world. But until you have fine tuned them in your system using your processor & sub, the speakers will not sound their best.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Audio Setup --> EXT In Setup --> SW Level +15dB

This is what my Denon says.

I don't know if you guys have ever looked here. Does your Denon say this?

 

[3db]

I'm lucky I guess. My AVR/speaker combo gave me the sound I was looking for. Punchy, solid deep bass, life like mids, detailed treble without going brittle or harsh and very dynamic. It just sounds awesome....Mind you, I run Pure Direct Mode and my towers run full range and the magic is there.

 

[herbu]

Audio Setup --> EXT In Setup --> SW Level +15dB
This is what my Denon says.
I don't know if you guys have ever looked here. Does your Denon say this?

I don't see this either within my X4000 on-screen display or in the Owner's Manual.

 

[Lulimet]

I play music on Direct mode with sub enabled.

 

[cpp]

Audio Setup --> EXT In Setup --> SW Level +15dB

This is what my Denon says.

I don't know if you guys have ever looked here. Does your Denon say this?

The 4311 has this capability

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I don't see this either within my X4000 on-screen display or in the Owner's Manual.

The 4311 has this capability

I have no idea what some of these things mean. I don't mess with them. But I see them and I just wonder.

Anyway, I used to use Direct or Pure Direct mode. They sound great like real life sound. But I realized that I crave for a lot "more" than real life sound. I want grander, more majestic sound. For example, when I see live non-amplified music, I am very underwhelmed. It is real. It is good. But I crave for more. So that is why I love Dynamic EQ in my system. I want all the accuracy of real life and then some.

It all depends on what you prefer. Real life or bigger than life or sensationalize or exaggerated or whatever you want to call it. I don't care.

There is no right vs. wrong or proper vs. improver or superior vs inferior. There is only personal preference. At the end of the day, the best sound is the sound that pleases you, not other people.

 

[cpp]

I have no idea what some of these things mean. I don't mess with them. But I see them and I just wonder.

Anyway, I used to use Direct or Pure Direct mode. They sound great like real life sound. But I realized that I crave for a lot "more" than real life sound. I want grander, more majestic sound. For example, when I see live non-amplified music, I am very underwhelmed. It is real. It is good. But I crave for more. So that is why I love Dynamic EQ in my system. I want all the accuracy of real life and then some.

It all depends on what you prefer. Real life or bigger than life or sensationalize or exaggerated or whatever you want to call it. I don't care.

There is no right vs. wrong or proper vs. improver or superior vs inferior. There is only personal preference. At the end of the day, the best sound is the sound that pleases you, not other people.

EXT.IN SUBWOOFER LEVEL: This setting applies ONLY to the multichannel analog inputs. If you have an external device (like an SACD player or a Blu Ray Player) that is connected with multichannel analog cables, this setting ensures that the LFE channel gets the appropriate level boost. If you are not using the multichannel analog inputs (labeled "EXT IN") then this setting is totally meaningless and you can ignore it!! Note that this setting will not even exist on many newer models that have done away with the multichannel analog inputs.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

EXT.IN SUBWOOFER LEVEL: This setting applies ONLY to the multichannel analog inputs. If you have an external device (like an SACD player or a Blu Ray Player) that is connected with multichannel analog cables, this setting ensures that the LFE channel gets the appropriate level boost. If you are not using the multichannel analog inputs (labeled "EXT IN") then this setting is totally meaningless and you can ignore it!! Note that this setting will not even exist on many newer models that have done away with the multichannel analog inputs.

Ah, make sense. Kind of what I figured. But I didn't want to assume since we are talking about Denon manuals and all.

 

[bizmord]

Set your sub to "LFE+Main" and Direct/Pure Direct will include the sub(s).

Exactly what i needed. Thank you

 

[PENG]

You guys know I am a fan of Placebo so I believe separates, more expensive, more powerful gear will always sound better, warm or more musical regardles of our power need, spl we listen to, quality of source media, anything. I am convinced my AV8801+Anthem/Marantz amp setup sounds better than my previous AV7005, Denon AVR-4308 and AVR-3805 even though I know in a even a single blind listening test I guarantee and bet none of us (yes that include you guys) would pick one out from the other more than 60% of the time. Yet everyon will have no trouble telling the difference between my 3 pairs of speakers and/or my best quality CDs and the average quality ones. So for the OP, make a good effort to get some help and conduct a few proper SBT, level matched, in Pure Direct between his Denon and Marantz and then be happy and focus on music/movie enjoyment instead of forever second guessing.

 

[Krush9]

This Thread was helpful... I never listened to Diret/Pure direct because it cut the sub out... now that I know, I will change the sub setting to LFE+Main and see how that sounds. I expect with the SVS sub it will make the listening experience worthwhile. My mains are 8" in walls, that go low, but a sub would round it out and make a big difference.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

This Thread was helpful... I never listened to Diret/Pure direct because it cut the sub out... now that I know, I will change the sub setting to LFE+Main and see how that sounds. I expect with the SVS sub it will make the listening experience worthwhile. My mains are 8" in walls, that go low, but a sub would round it out and make a big difference.

Have you tried Stereo mode + Audyssey Flat or Bypass L/R + Dynamic EQ?