Emotiva XPR-1 1kwatt Mono Amplifier Review

[Irvrobinson]

What generalisations have been made exactly?

Your entire line of reasoning, that the distortion and non-linearities caused by clipping is not harmful, and that whether or not the damage that is incurred is strictly a function of output power. That implies that the tolerance of amplifier clipping is somehow consistent or linear, and that the frequency spectrum is irrelevant. You're also generalizing that solid state amplifiers only produce frequency distortion when they clip, which isn't always the case. Some SS amps pass everything from DC to power spikes when they clip. You also appear to be arguing that you ran some tests on some equipment you happened to have around, and concluded from those limited tests that damage from clipping in the general sense is a myth.

 

[Irvrobinson]

It's a comment I've heard before online and thought it would be relevant to the other posters. It's not a direct quote, I never copied and pasted anything, but I do remember something similar being posted years back.

Your point? Do you have an actual argument here to address my other points, or are you going to grill me over some comment that I heard in a message board several years ago?

Stick to the topic please.

We're discussing clipping in an amplifier review thread, and you're telling me to stick to the topic? That's ironic.

There are many people who do internet searches these days, regurgitate the information they find, and present themselves as experts by doing so.

 

[Goliath]

There are many people who do internet searches these days, regurgitate the information they find, and present themselves as experts by doing so.

I guess you are one of those experts.

 

[Goliath]

[QUOTE="Irvrobinson]Your entire line of reasoning, that the distortion and non-linearities caused by clipping is not harmful, and that whether or not damage is incurred is strictly a function of output power. [/QUOTE]

Show me evidence that clipping, by itself, can harm drivers. Show me evidence that harmonics generated from clipping can damage drivers.

You're also generalizing that solid state amplifiers only produce frequency distortion when they clip, which isn't always the case.

Nope, that's a straw man.

Some SS amps pass everything from DC to power spikes when they clip.

What solid state amplifiers pass DC when clipping? Any examples?

You also appear to be arguing that you ran some tests on some equipment you happened to have around, and concluded from those limited tests that damage from clipping in the general sense is a myth.

Not from my tests, but from general FT analysis. It is a myth. There is no evidence that amplifier clipping alone can result in speaker damage.

Gene can back me up on this. Power does the damage, not the clipping. If there is not enough power to do the damage then clipping won't cause driver damage. It may sound terrible, but that's it. Speakers don't fail due to distortion, Irvrobinson.

You can make this issue needlessly complex if you want, but it still boils down to applied power, and the more applied power to the voice coils, for a long enough duration, the easier it will be to cause driver failure, especially if that power exceeds the thermal properties of the speaker. Clipping an amplifier does not guarantee this at all.

You are welcome to regurgitate more misinformation if you like. Get back to me when you have some solid data to back up your assertions.

 

[RichB]

^^^

I have a friend that is an "old guitar" player and we have this dissuasion often since he thinks I am nuts trying to get clean flat response. But, as an ex-biker, he likes nuts
When discussing guitars, I have a similar sentiment, clipping is part of the instrument and it should reproduce it as faithfully as possible.

I have played music with 20 DB peaks which would clip a 100 watt amp at reasonable listening levels.
You do not need to add much volume have high-peak demand.
The amp must handle instantaneous peaks, provide the required current and avoid compression.

I spent some time with a friends Pioneer SC07 ICE AVR (140 WPC).
Its soft clipping design produced a loud but lifeless sound when cranked driving his 3 way B&W's.
Soft clipping = compression.

He moved to two Outlaw M2200 (200 WPC) amps fed directly by an Oppo BDP-105 acting as a preamp.
The sound is much better clean, fast, adn dynamic. He used to turn it up until it ran out of gas.
Now, the volume control stays in the closer to 50%. With the dynamics in place it feels louder.
The lesson for me is that clipping and compression remove the dynamics and should be avoided even if they do not harm your speakers.

Compressed music, and I would argue a soft clipping amp, will deliver more constant power to drivers.
More constant power can lead to overheating and hurt drivers,
An amp running out of power can be turned up and may produce more high frequencies while being unable to power the bass.
The result is the same, more constant power to the tweeters and, of course, sucky lifeless sound.

- Rich

 

[Irvrobinson]

I guess you are one of those experts.

Damn, busted! I fold.

 

[Steve81]

FWIW, here's one piece on the subject that was reposted by Bill Fitzmaurice:
BillFitzmaurice.info - View topic - Can I underpower my speakers?Will clipping hurt them?

To boil it down, destroying a driver does obviously involve exceeding its physical capabilities, be it mechanical or thermal. Clipping an amplifier doesn't inherently create this situation: clipping a 50W amplifier into a passive Funk 18.0 isn't liable to do any damage to the driver. However, it should be noted that the combination of output that is potentially well in excess of an amplifier's nominal rating coupled with the considerable amount of excess energy that a tweeter might see from sky-high levels of THD certainly isn't going to do any favors to a typical home audio loudspeaker.

 

[DaMaster]

Vu meter

If they added a VU meter they would sell out instantly ,
At least most LEds

 

[crossedover]

If they added a VU meter they would sell out instantly ,
At least most LEds

Yep VU meters sell amps if you want them buy a McIntosh if there not sold out

 

[sharkman]

Normally I'd say yeah, but a 1000 watt mono block that requires a dedicated 20 amp line(so 2 circuits for stereo, more for a theater)? I just don't see that flying off the shelves, Macintosh amps are more realistic in the power department. 99.9% of audio owners don't need 1000 watts per channel, and no house is built with 20 amp dedicated lines, save for very rare or extreme circumstances.

 

[gene]

Normally I'd say yeah, but a 1000 watt mono block that requires a dedicated 20 amp line(so 2 circuits for stereo, more for a theater)? I just don't see that flying off the shelves, Macintosh amps are more realistic in the power department. 99.9% of audio owners don't need 1000 watts per channel, and no house is built with 20 amp dedicated lines, save for very rare or extreme circumstances.

The XPR-1 can work just fine on a 15A line but it won't be able to deliver 2kwatts into a 4 ohm load hence why they ship it with a 20A power cable and recommend it to be used on a 20A line. I am running dual XPR-1's on a single dedicated 20A line and have NO issues AT ALL! Most people building home theaters in new construction housing usually run dedicated 120V 20A or 220V lines for this very purpose. To fault a company for delivering high quality 2kwatts of power for the fraction of the cost of a Mcintosh is a bit absurd.

And I agree with the last posters comment about offering VU meters. I wish the XPR-1s had big analog VU meters and proposed this the moment I first saw these amps. I think it would be cool to have a special anniversary series of the XPR-1 with this upgrade for a reasonable price premium.

 

[sharkman]

Where did I fault Emotiva? I simply said most owners don't need 1000 watts per channel. You characterize something I said wrongly, then attack me for it. Weird.

 

[gene]

Macintosh amps are more realistic in the power department. 99.9% of audio owners don't need 1000 watts per channel, and no house is built with 20 amp dedicated lines,

Maybe the meaning of your message was lost in cyberspace but I fail to see how Mcintosh amps are more "realistic" in the power department. Last time I checked McIntosh also builds 2kwatt Monobloc amplifiers.

McIntosh MC2KW Amplifier, 1 Channel 2000 Watts McIntosh MC2KW Amplifier

You're not getting that kind of power from 120Vac/15A circuit.

Need that much power, get a dedicated 20A line or 220V or both. Don't need it? Get a smaller amp.

 

[sharkman]

I stand corrected on McIntosh amps, I didn't realize they made a 2000 watt mono. I think that's way beyond the needs of 99.9% of audio owners as well, and I'd wager they don't sell as well as their 600 watt mono.

 

[AUTOBOT]

Please do a youtube video on this amp.
I have a pair of these with dedicated 20 amp circuits for each amp hospital grade isolated ground receptacles.
Love them.

 

[Lvnsnfnatk]

I'm grateful to have found this website! You guys review great gear that is priced resonably. These Emotiva Monoblocks appear to be well made and have good sound. They also make a pure class A amp. Is there a dealer where I can hear this gear A/B'd ?

I'm a power junkie for sure and am so relieved I changed out the 15A crap that was there prior. My room is wired by 3 separate 20A recepticles with my amp getting its own line. I just assumed these lines are 220V as you recommend, but i'm not sure. How can I tell?

Can I somehow wire in a 30A line for the amp? I realize the recepticle and plug is different as on a clothes dryer, but the temptation to get more power has me contemplating it. I wonder if it's possible? Just a thought.