AV receiver advice

[bwspot]

Your primary listening position could be in a null, making high frequencies stand out above mid to upper-mid. Is the brightness you describe apparent if you turn the volume down and put your ear close to a speaker?

I will check that.

Why would you compare those two files? Is not that like comparing apple and oranges? The DEQ has Audyssey adjustments and DEQ enabled, so they will differ.

 

[rojo]

Well, I thought if there were a profound difference, the visual comparison would make it easier to quantify.

 

[bwspot]

Well, I thought if there were a profound difference, the visual comparison would make it easier to quantify.

How about the sound when you listen to it? Can you hear the high tones that sound kind of like super sonic sound?

 

[bwspot]

Rojo, I see you have Marantz sr6008. Do you have an iphone by chance? I though about if you record the same thing I did. I understand your speakers are different, but I wonder what i hear.

 

[bwspot]

Well, I thought if there were a profound difference, the visual comparison would make it easier to quantify.

It might be due to DEQ 15DB setting.

 

[rojo]

How about the sound when you listen to it? Can you hear the high tones that sound kind of like super sonic sound?

Well, no, not really. But I can't hear above 13kHz or so.

It just occurred to me that you weren't asking us if we could hear the brightness in PureDirect or in DEQ, one or the other, but in both. I misunderstood. Sorry about that.

It's Friday the 13th. I think I just need to go back to bed until tomorrow.

Rojo, I see you have Marantz sr6008. Do you have an iphone by chance? I though about if you record the same thing I did. I understand your speakers are different, but I wonder what i hear.

I don't have an iPhone, but I suppose I could record it using my UMIK-1 on my PC. I don't think that would tell you much either, since I've got different speakers and different acoustics in my room than you do.

 

[bwspot]

Well, no, not really. But I can't hear above 13kHz or so.

It just occurred to me that you weren't asking us if we could hear the brightness in PureDirect or in DEQ, one or the other, but in both. I misunderstood. Sorry about that.

It's Friday the 13th. I think I just need to go back to bed until tomorrow.

Both show the brightness. DEQ is just little different as it adds depth. The super sonic like sound (bright) is very similar to what you would hear if you wound listen to audio generator and generate 17000-19000 Hz tone. When I downsample PureDirect file to 0 -14000HZ i dont hear it anymore. So the brightness lives in high frequency.

 

[zieglj01]

Both show the brightness. DEQ is just little different as it adds depth. The super sonic like sound (bright) is very similar to what you would hear if you wound listen to audio generator and generate 17000-19000 Hz tone. When I downsample PureDirect file to 0 -14000HZ i dont hear it anymore. So the brightness lives in high frequency.

You are not becoming obsessed are you - be careful, this can happen in audio!

For regular normal listening and musical programs - do you know that your speakers
have a treble rise from 10khz up, with a peak of +4 db at 15.5 khz?
Test Report: Axiom Audio M60 v3 Tower Speakers Page 4 | Sound & Vision

For a lot of us the difference with sytem set-ups > will be in analog or digital,
room and speakers.

I do hear a small difference in some receivers - however, they are small - sometimes
it is the mind that tends to raise the difference - as a lot of us listen with the ear and
the eye of the mind.

However, whatever you hear you hear - I would still focus on room and speakers.

Enjoy the adventure

 

[rojo]

Does that occur with all your sources? Are the sources plugged into the same power strip as your receiver? Do you hear the same whine through your receiver's Internet Radio tuner? Did you get your X2000 from A4L? It might be worth giving them a call. Maybe you got a bad receiver. Now that you mention it, that earwig tail at the right end of the frequency analyses I screenshot doesn't look normal. Does your dog or cat run out of the room howling when you play music?

 

[zieglj01]

Does that occur with all your sources? Are the sources plugged into the same power strip as your receiver? Do you hear the same whine through your receiver's Internet Radio tuner? Did you get your X2000 from A4L? It might be worth giving them a call. Maybe you got a bad receiver. Now that you mention it, that scorpion tail at the right end of the frequency analyses I screenshot doesn't look normal.

Should also note that his speakers have a treble rise after 10 khz > +4 db at 15.5 khz

 

[bwspot]

Does that occur with all your sources? Are the sources plugged into the same power strip as your receiver? Do you hear the same whine through your receiver's Internet Radio tuner? Did you get your X2000 from A4L? It might be worth giving them a call. Maybe you got a bad receiver. Now that you mention it, that earwig tail at the right end of the frequency analyses I screenshot doesn't look normal. Does your dog or cat run out of the room howling when you play music?

I bought it new at Crutchfield. No cats and dogs. I tested with Airplay, USB and network. Radio sounds similar but due to bad quality not worth it. (streams are usually max 96bps)
I am waiting for my mic to do further testing.

 

[bwspot]

Today I am stuck with hissing high frequency sound. Before it would go on and off and last only few minutes.
I must back off and hope for it to go away.
I was happy that I could hear so well, now I might become a hater of high frequency noise.
I did not listen too loud so I am not sure why my ears were affected.
I hope I did not develop Tinnitus as this would be the worse outcome of wanting to know.

 

[zieglj01]

Today I am stuck with hissing high frequency sound. Before it would go on and off and last only few minutes.
I must back off and hope for it to go away.
I was happy that I could hear so well, now I might become a hater of high frequency noise.
I did not listen too loud so I am not sure why my ears were affected.
I hope I did not develop Tinnitus as this would be the worse outcome of wanting to know.

I would not play with a lot of high frequency sweeps

Also, sometimes wax build-up can cause problems

 

[PnR]

At the risk of being redundant I'll ask my question here.

I'm replacing (not necessarily upgrading) my speakers with DefTech 55's, accompanying center, and mythos for the surrounds. I have an Outlaw LFM EX which isn't going anywhere. I'm wondering if it might be time to upgrade my receiver but only want to if there's a one which would be an upgrade sonically. New bells and whistles are nice but I have Pandora through DirectTV, don't care about Airplay, and don't anticipate 4k being a part of my world any time soon.

So I've had Denon 1712 for a couple years and it's been solid but not spectacular. Last couple days I've been perusing receivers and keep seeing Yamahas getting great reviews for audio quality.

Do you guys think there would be a discernible difference from my 1712 to say a Yamaha RX-A1020? While sound quality is the motivating factor I wouldn't mind if the video upscaling feature in the Yamaha has any teeth (which isn't present in my 1712).

I did read the previous 14 pages but thought my question differs a bit given the fact the receivers I'm asking about aren't from 2 companies under the same umbrella.

Oh and another difference I noticed is the Yamaha is 110 W per channel as opposed to the Denons 90. Not sure how much of a difference that will make given the fact the majority of my listening is done at a "normal" level... thanks to the girlfriend.

 

[PENG]

At the risk of being redundant I'll ask my question here.

I'm replacing (not necessarily upgrading) my speakers with DefTech 55's, accompanying center, and mythos for the surrounds. I have an Outlaw LFM EX which isn't going anywhere. I'm wondering if it might be time to upgrade my receiver but only want to if there's a one which would be an upgrade sonically. New bells and whistles are nice but I have Pandora through DirectTV, don't care about Airplay, and don't anticipate 4k being a part of my world any time soon.

So I've had Denon 1712 for a couple years and it's been solid but not spectacular. Last couple days I've been perusing receivers and keep seeing Yamahas getting great reviews for audio quality.

Do you guys think there would be a discernible difference from my 1712 to say a Yamaha RX-A1020? While sound quality is the motivating factor I wouldn't mind if the video upscaling feature in the Yamaha has any teeth (which isn't present in my 1712).

I did read the previous 14 pages but thought my question differs a bit given the fact the receivers I'm asking about aren't from 2 companies under the same umbrella.

Oh and another difference I noticed is the Yamaha is 110 W per channel as opposed to the Denons 90. Not sure how much of a difference that will make given the fact the majority of my listening is done at a "normal" level... thanks to the girlfriend.

I have had the 1912 briefly so I am familiar with it and the 1712 that basically has the same power supply and amp section. The 1912 sounds very good, at least with my speakers that are not hard to drive and I don't listen at damaging SPL. So I highly doubt the 1010 would do any better in pure direct mode. The 20W difference means very little unless your system and environment (speakers, room and your listening SPL) just happen to need that little bit more headroom.

People hear what they hear or believe they hear and in that sense we are all going to be different so as they say YMMV. At the end you will have to find out for yourself. As to video upscaling and upconversion, in most cases it is a waste and I never use those features in all of my AVR and prepros. Why is that important to you? Don't get me wrong, they could be useful if you have a real need but IMO most people shouldn't need it. I found even the flagship Oppo products are unable to upscale much better than my $70 Sony BDP or the TV.

 

[PnR]

I have had the 1912 briefly so I am familiar with it and the 1712 that basically has the same power supply and amp section. The 1912 sounds very good, at least with my speakers that are not hard to drive and I don't listen at damaging SPL. So I highly doubt the 1010 would do any better in pure direct mode. The 20W difference means very little unless your system and environment (speakers, room and your listening SPL) just happen to need that little bit more headroom.

People hear what they hear or believe they hear and in that sense we are all going to be different so as they say YMMV. At the end you will have to find out for yourself. As to video upscaling and upconversion, in most cases it is a waste and I never use those features in all of my AVR and prepros. Why is that important to you? Don't get me wrong, they could be useful if you have a real need but IMO most people shouldn't need it. I found even the flagship Oppo products are unable to upscale much better than my $70 Sony BDP or the TV.

Well since my last post I've been researching and honed in on the Onkyo NR 818 which seems even a little more robust than the 1020 while being in the same price range.

Looks like 135 watts per ch as opposed to the 110 on the Yamaha. But your point is taken about the power being overkill if I don't plan on cranking things up.

I use they PS3 as my blu ray player unless I'm clueless (which is entirely possible) there isn't anything I currently have that is upscaling my picture while watching things on Amazon Prime or Netflix. Lately I've been binge watching Friday Night Lights on Prime and while the picture is acceptable, it's nowhere near HD. Of course my internet speed has something to do with that but other things I've watched on Netflix have looked better.

The upscaling would be a nice ancillary benefit - if it does what I think it does - but I really was hoping for a little better sound. I used the Audessy Mult EQ with the Denon and while in Dolby or DTS the dialogue in movies is still faint. I had to manually boost the center by about 6 dbs to make it acceptable but that detracted from the overall sound. You lose the experience of being "in" the movie if you will. The center was at ear level and was a PSB Image 9c so it wasn't a budget speaker.

I'm not expecting miracles but logically it would seem to me that a top of the line product from a 2012 receiver would have better components/construction than a mid level 2011? But maybe this is the part where you tell me in theory they should all sound the same. Which I concede could be the case.

 

[PENG]

But maybe this is the part where you tell me in theory they should all sound the same. Which I concede could be the case.

I did not tell you that and I wouldn't. It is possible that all AVRs don't sound the same as it depends on many things. I simply said in pure direct, the two specific units, i.e. 1712 and 1010 will not likely sound much different, and how much of a different will vary among people. Claims tended to range from night and day to subtle, not subtle to no difference at all. That's why I thought at the end of the day you have to find out for yourself because you will likely get different opinions on a forum like this. Yes that Onkyo appears to have more robust power supply and amp section in it but Yamaha is known for top notch build quality and reliability so in that sense the 1010 is superior.

 

[PnR]

That's fair. Not exactly the "sexy" answer I'd hoped for but fair haha. I was hoping you were going to tell me the Onkyo comes equipped with a 4th generation flux capacitor which is designed to completely immerse the listener in an ocean of sound.

But I guess I'll have to live with YMMV.

I think I'm going to get the Onkyo. I have financing on a site where I can get it with no interest for a year. I figure I should be able to get a couple hondo for the Denon which will bring the price of the Onkyo to 450 or so. Not cheap but at least I won't spend the next couple months with the what if's. Plus I'll surely be out of the market for a receiver until sometime around 2020 so that's nice.

 

[bwspot]

Its been long time since i posted. In recent month i have read more about ears and hearing loss then anything else. I still have issues with ringing that i am trying to fight with.

I would like to tell everyone to be cautions about high volume and playing with different sounds.
People are not educated enough about ear protection. It is so important.
I recommended to read:
http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawebserver?mwsId=SSSSSuH8gc7nZxtU5Y_xMxtSevUqe17zHvTSevTSeSSSSSS--&fn=03 Soundscape, the Journal of Ac

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Its been long time since i posted. In recent month i have read more about ears and hearing loss then anything else. I still have issues with ringing that i am trying to fight with.

I would like to tell everyone to be cautions about high volume and playing with different sounds.
People are not educated enough about ear protection. It is so important.
I recommended to read:
http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawebserver?mwsId=SSSSSuH8gc7nZxtU5Y_xMxtSevUqe17zHvTSevTSeSSSSSS--&fn=03 Soundscape, the Journal of Ac

Yeah, we went to Cancun in June. The resort had a great indoor theater stadium for nightly shows. But sometimes the sound level was excruciatingly loud to me. I had to use my ear pieces to protect by valuable ears from the extremely loud noise. I gave my daughter a set of ear piece too, which she used. She agreed with me that the noise level was too loud for her. I gave a set of ear piece to my wife. But like the majority of the audience, she chose NOT to use the ear pieces, saying the sound was NOT dangerously loud.

I looked around and I could not see anyone else covering their ears. Not the kids, not their parents.

I bet if they were at home, these people would not tolerate such loud volume. I measured the loudest level I could tolerate to be about 94dBC or about 85dBA in 2.0 mode. Although in 2.1, the loudest level was about 107dBC, but mostly due to the subwoofer. And that was the PEAK level, not constant level. Yet, my wife would quickly complain that it was too loud. I assured her that the 85dBA in my room was absolutely much less than the extremely noise level we heard in the Cancun theater stadium. But she brushed it off.

So I conclude that in public (theaters, concerts, dance, live events, etc.), people must be too embarrassed to cover their ears. They would rather endure the dangerous noise.

But certainly not I. If I don't have ear plugs or earphones, I will just use my 2 hands to cover my ears.