I need a musical subwoofer

[rojo]

Easy enough to swap to something like the Dayton SPA250. Plus they're using an off the shelf amplifier so it's easy to get replacements if you stuck with the stock amp.

Bah, after replacing the amp and installing grills, one might as well have started off with a knockdown box and a DIY kit. It's like going to microwave something, reading complicated instructions that involve stopping halfway, stirring, setting a sauce packet aside and thawing it in a cup of hot water, and then just saying, "Hell. Might as well cook."

How are you liking the NXG 4.1's?

dsantjer, I was wondering this as well. And did you pull the trigger on the Denon E300 receiver?

 

[Ponzio]

At that price, my curiosity is almost overwhelmed.

You're not the only one. The specs & build look good. The only negative being, no grills & plain Jane looks. I already screwed up when I bought one EMP Tek 1010i, instead of two, last year on a Black Friday sale for $250. By the time I figured I really liked the thing, the sale was over and now its out of production.

This hobby is driving me nuts. In a good way.

 

[Basshead81]

I would try to stretch the budget for a Reaction BPS 212 which can be had for $500 shipped. I think that may be the best $500 sub. If you have even more leeway, the Outlaw Audio LFM-1 EX is on sale right now for $600 shipped. That is a killer sub for the price, and will easily outperform everything mentioned so far in this thread.

Until we can actually see some cea 2010 data on those reaction subs, It might be over reaching stating that it "may" be the best sub. Especially coming from somebody that lives and breaths 3rd party testing.

Also lets not count out the Rythmik LV12 or SVS PB-12NSD for 549.00 in the outlet section.

 

[shadyJ]

I don't think CEA is that great of an metric. I would want a fuller data set than that. Nonetheless, given the specs, I am guessing that the BPS 212 is the $500 sub to beat. Given the dearth of measurements, I could be wrong, but that is why I qualified my comment with 'may'. All I can say is if I had $500 and needed a sub, I would go straight for the BPS 212.

 

[dsantjer]

I have not been able to use the NXG 4.1's yet. My E300 is on its way! I'll definitely let you know how I like them when I listen to them.

 

[3db]

Until we can actually see some cea 2010 data on those reaction subs, It might be over reaching stating that it "may" be the best sub. Especially coming from somebody that lives and breaths 3rd party testing.

Also lets not count out the Rythmik LV12 or SVS PB-12NSD for 549.00 in the outlet section.

Owning the Rythmik, I can certainly vouch for its musicality.

 

[its phillip]

I don't think CEA is that great of an metric. I would want a fuller data set than that.

What do you suggest? Maybe you should write something up and submit it to whoever it needs to be submitted to.

 

[dsantjer]

I pulled the trigger on the SVS. They have a 45 day satisfaction guarantee so I'll be able to give it a test run or two.

 

[rojo]

Excellent. Post pics and impressions when you get all your new toys together.

 

[afterlife2]

I pulled the trigger on the SVS. They have a 45 day satisfaction guarantee so I'll be able to give it a test run or two.

Excellent congrats if you need help setting up shoot me a PM.

 

[shadyJ]

What do you suggest? Maybe you should write something up and submit it to whoever it needs to be submitted to.

Lol, since I don't have a doctorate in acoustic science, I doubt anyone would pay attention to me. My main complaints about CEA is it allows far too much distortion for a passing measurement (35% THD is somehow acceptable!?), and also it does not account for the equal loudness curve in its distortion thresholds. I was thinking about writing a post which goes into specifics with audio examples, but I don't have time for an in-depth treatment at the moment. I hope to write something like that sometime this year.

 

[fuzz092888]

Bah, after replacing the amp and installing grills, one might as well have started off with a knockdown box and a DIY kit. It's like going to microwave something, reading complicated instructions that involve stopping halfway, stirring, setting a sauce packet aside and thawing it in a cup of hot water, and then just saying, "Hell. Might as well cook."

Agree to disagree

 

[crossedover]

Lol, since I don't have a doctorate in acoustic science, I doubt anyone would pay attention to me. My main complaints about CEA is it allows far too much distortion for a passing measurement (35% THD is somehow acceptable!?), and also it does not account for the equal loudness curve in its distortion thresholds. I was thinking about writing a post which goes into specifics with audio examples, but I don't have time for an in-depth treatment at the moment. I hope to write something like that sometime this year.

Understanding where distortion becomes audible and relevant would help. Heck most can't interpret most graphs anyways. There is always a "whole" picture.

 

[shadyJ]

There is no way 35% THD is not audible at any frequency, even if it was all 2nd order. And at the range of bass we are talking about, 80 Hz and below, it would be louder than the fundamental.

 

[crossedover]

There is no way 35% THD is not audible at any frequency, even if it was all 2nd order. And at the range of bass we are talking about, 80 Hz and below, it would be louder than the fundamental.

So ultra low bass in a .lfe sound track doesn't benefit from higher distortion? Doesn't cause that extra umph? If distortion levels are acceptable above 25hz for acoustic music ie that slow rise down to, there isn't an issue. One must distinguish between sound reinforcement and home theater.

As a side note Toole noted this in psycoacoustic studies on harmonic distortion

 

[shadyJ]

Whether ultra low bass benefits from THD is, of course, purely a matter of personal opinion. However, you can not claim to be interested in high fidelity playback when the reproduced material sounds very different from the recorded material. CEA2010 allows this and is therefore not a sufficient measurement of subwoofer performance. It might be useful if all you care about is how loud your subwoofer can reproduce explosions. CEA's distortion thresholds are so high it is useless as a gauge of high fidelity performance.

 

[Basshead81]

^If this was actually true then why would the FV15HP be so highly regarded among many across various forums when in fact it pegs 40% 3rd order thd @ 20hz in 1 port max extension mode?

 

[shadyJ]

^If this was actually true then why would the FV15HP be so highly regarded among many across various forums when in fact it pegs 40% 3rd order thd @ 20hz in 1 port max extension mode?

It is highly regarded in spite of that. Its measured performance outside of that flaw is outstanding for the price, so its not a big deal if it isn't a perfect sub for around $1500 shipped. Of course, it would be better without it.

 

[its phillip]

Lol, since I don't have a doctorate in acoustic science, I doubt anyone would pay attention to me. My main complaints about CEA is it allows far too much distortion for a passing measurement (35% THD is somehow acceptable!?), and also it does not account for the equal loudness curve in its distortion thresholds. I was thinking about writing a post which goes into specifics with audio examples, but I don't have time for an in-depth treatment at the moment. I hope to write something like that sometime this year.

You are very vocal about your issues with CEA2010 and its allowable distortion thresholds for somebody who doubts anybody would pay attention to him.

Why not write Don Keele and ask him why 35% THD is considered a passing grade? Or ask Josh Ricci what he thinks about it since he's tested tons of subwoofers and he'd have firsthand knowledge of how a unit sounds at the limit.

Even if I agreed with you I think I would still rather read Josh Ricci's subwoofer reviews than anybody else's. I'm not interested in flowery adjectives. I'm interested in measured performance.

 

[crossedover]

You are very vocal about your issues with CEA2010 and its allowable distortion thresholds for somebody who doubts anybody would pay attention to him.



Why not write Don Keele and ask him why 35% THD is considered a passing grade? Or ask Josh Ricci what he thinks about it since he's tested tons of subwoofers and he'd have firsthand knowledge of how a unit sounds at the limit.

Even if I agreed with you I think I would still rather read Josh Ricci's subwoofer reviews than anybody else's. I'm not interested in flowery adjectives. I'm interested in measured performance.

Correct. When using a standard that has proven results, most use it as a baseline to narrow down choices prior to a listening test. Odd order distortion in reference to harmonics has been proven to be audibly favorable with frequencies below 32hz especially in max bursts. Just look at some of the top performing subs an their levels