I think I killed my receiver

[NonEntity]

For the past two years I have been enjoying an Onkyo RC360 receiver, Polk Monitor 70 speakers, and a Squeezebox Touch as a pure music system. The system had previously been set up with the receiver on the same wall as the speakers. We just finished a remodeling job on our house and my one request for the remodel was to have speaker wire run for a multi-room music setup. The stereo's designated place is now about midway between the two walls in two rooms that have speaker wire plates.

Today I was finally able to hook the stereo back up. I only have the one set of speakers still, so that is all I connected. The horizontal distance between the stereo and speakers is 24 feet, but there is about 13 more feet of vertical travel up and down the walls. The stereo started and played fine, but when I went into the settings to balance the speakers the receiver turned off. When I turned it back on, (mistake) there was a flash and smoke came up from inside the receiver.

Am I asking for too much from this receiver? Obviously if driving one set of speakers at that distance was too much, I am going to need a whole lot more horsepower to drive a zone two. This is a pure music setup, am I correct in assuming I would be better off with just an amplifier and run the squeezebox into that? I don't even need radio honestly, let alone all the video inputs on this receiver.

My second question relates to the future purchase of a second set of speakers. I have read enough in the forums to know that the Polk speakers I have are not well regarded. I have not had any complaints with them, but also admit I don't know enough to know what I might be missing. The speakers are in the living room and the future set will be in the dining room, both facing towards the kitchen, with the idea the kitchen would be bathed in sound. Would it be a bad idea to have two different brands of speakers for this purpose or would it not really matter? If it makes a difference, part of the remodel was a change from carpet to vinyl plank flooring in those two rooms. Also, if it matters, my music is mostly heavy metal in its various sub-genres, but I also listen to classical, bluegrass, folk, and classic rock.

The one piece of information I don't have is the gauge of the speaker wire run by the electricians. They do home theater wiring for a local installer and said they could handle this with no issues and I figured they knew what they were doing. I am using 16 gauge for the short runs between the stereo/speakers and the wall.

I appreciate any advice, I am an absolute audiophyte but I love music and I am seriously crushed at this turn of events. Budget is important (as you probably guessed by the equipment I have) but I don't want to spend too little and kill another piece of equipment (if that is what happened). Thank you audioholics.

 

[TLS Guy]

For the past two years I have been enjoying an Onkyo RC360 receiver, Polk Monitor 70 speakers, and a Squeezebox Touch as a pure music system. The system had previously been set up with the receiver on the same wall as the speakers. We just finished a remodeling job on our house and my one request for the remodel was to have speaker wire run for a multi-room music setup. The stereo's designated place is now about midway between the two walls in two rooms that have speaker wire plates.

Today I was finally able to hook the stereo back up. I only have the one set of speakers still, so that is all I connected. The horizontal distance between the stereo and speakers is 24 feet, but there is about 13 more feet of vertical travel up and down the walls. The stereo started and played fine, but when I went into the settings to balance the speakers the receiver turned off. When I turned it back on, (mistake) there was a flash and smoke came up from inside the receiver.

Am I asking for too much from this receiver? Obviously if driving one set of speakers at that distance was too much, I am going to need a whole lot more horsepower to drive a zone two. This is a pure music setup, am I correct in assuming I would be better off with just an amplifier and run the squeezebox into that? I don't even need radio honestly, let alone all the video inputs on this receiver.

My second question relates to the future purchase of a second set of speakers. I have read enough in the forums to know that the Polk speakers I have are not well regarded. I have not had any complaints with them, but also admit I don't know enough to know what I might be missing. The speakers are in the living room and the future set will be in the dining room, both facing towards the kitchen, with the idea the kitchen would be bathed in sound. Would it be a bad idea to have two different brands of speakers for this purpose or would it not really matter? If it makes a difference, part of the remodel was a change from carpet to vinyl plank flooring in those two rooms. Also, if it matters, my music is mostly heavy metal in its various sub-genres, but I also listen to classical, bluegrass, folk, and classic rock.

The one piece of information I don't have is the gauge of the speaker wire run by the electricians. They do home theater wiring for a local installer and said they could handle this with no issues and I figured they knew what they were doing. I am using 16 gauge for the short runs between the stereo/speakers and the wall.

I appreciate any advice, I am an absolute audiophyte but I love music and I am seriously crushed at this turn of events. Budget is important (as you probably guessed by the equipment I have) but I don't want to spend too little and kill another piece of equipment (if that is what happened). Thank you audioholics.

The length of the wire had nothing to do with this. It might have been the receivers time to go to the recycling center.

However there is a strong possibility there is a wiring error, such as a short or nail through a wire. You need to double check everything carefully as you will likely blow up anything you connect to that system. Honestly, I think was likely you have a serious error in the speaker wiring.

 

[NonEntity]

You need to double check everything carefully as you will likely blow up anything you connect to that system. Honestly, I think was likely you have a serious error in the speaker wiring.

Thank you TLS Guy. The electricians were returning today and I asked the contractor to have them run a test on the wiring in the wall. He says it all checked out OK (of course, they put it in). Is there a way I can check to make sure things are right without connecting another system? Does the fact both speakers were playing for about three songs narrow down what the nature of the potential wiring issue could be? It is good news that the wiring runs will not require a monster amplifier. Thank you very much for your guidance and suggestion.

 

[TLS Guy]

Thank you TLS Guy. The electricians were returning today and I asked the contractor to have them run a test on the wiring in the wall. He says it all checked out OK (of course, they put it in). Is there a way I can check to make sure things are right without connecting another system? Does the fact both speakers were playing for about three songs narrow down what the nature of the potential wiring issue could be? It is good news that the wiring runs will not require a monster amplifier. Thank you very much for your guidance and suggestion.

First off I have no idea if your contractor is competent or an idiot.

I suspect he is an idiot, and the impedance presented to your receiver is far too low. I have no idea of your hookup and there are a lot of ways to do it.

I will say this though, a receiver is a lousy device for driving whole house multi room audio unless the zone 2 preouts can be used to power a distribution amp.

If you do try and use a receiver, then you need impedance matching volume controls and or impedance matching switches to keep the impedance presented by multiple speakers in a range that will not blow up the device the speakers are connected to. Receivers are blown up particularly easily if the engineering is not correct.

By far the best approach to whole house audio is the inclusion of a multichannel distribution amplifier.

Just about the only detail of significance you have told us about your installation is that it blew up a receiver in short order. This is pretty much the universal outcome when people are not expert in these type of installations. Every installation is different so I can provide no further guidance without knowing every last detail about your system. I suspect though you will have to call in a professional with a proven track record in these types of installations.

 

[Nestor]

For the past two years I have been enjoying an Onkyo RC360 receiver, Polk Monitor 70 speakers, and a Squeezebox Touch as a pure music system. The system had previously been set up with the receiver on the same wall as the speakers. We just finished a remodeling job on our house and my one request for the remodel was to have speaker wire run for a multi-room music setup. The stereo's designated place is now about midway between the two walls in two rooms that have speaker wire plates.

Today I was finally able to hook the stereo back up. I only have the one set of speakers still, so that is all I connected. The horizontal distance between the stereo and speakers is 24 feet, but there is about 13 more feet of vertical travel up and down the walls. The stereo started and played fine, but when I went into the settings to balance the speakers the receiver turned off. When I turned it back on, (mistake) there was a flash and smoke came up from inside the receiver.

Am I asking for too much from this receiver? Obviously if driving one set of speakers at that distance was too much, I am going to need a whole lot more horsepower to drive a zone two. This is a pure music setup, am I correct in assuming I would be better off with just an amplifier and run the squeezebox into that? I don't even need radio honestly, let alone all the video inputs on this receiver.

My second question relates to the future purchase of a second set of speakers. I have read enough in the forums to know that the Polk speakers I have are not well regarded. I have not had any complaints with them, but also admit I don't know enough to know what I might be missing. The speakers are in the living room and the future set will be in the dining room, both facing towards the kitchen, with the idea the kitchen would be bathed in sound. Would it be a bad idea to have two different brands of speakers for this purpose or would it not really matter? If it makes a difference, part of the remodel was a change from carpet to vinyl plank flooring in those two rooms. Also, if it matters, my music is mostly heavy metal in its various sub-genres, but I also listen to classical, bluegrass, folk, and classic rock.

The one piece of information I don't have is the gauge of the speaker wire run by the electricians. They do home theater wiring for a local installer and said they could handle this with no issues and I figured they knew what they were doing. I am using 16 gauge for the short runs between the stereo/speakers and the wall.

I appreciate any advice, I am an absolute audiophyte but I love music and I am seriously crushed at this turn of events. Budget is important (as you probably guessed by the equipment I have) but I don't want to spend too little and kill another piece of equipment (if that is what happened). Thank you audioholics.

By "balance", I assume you mean "left/right". I'm wondering what the occasion was to rebalance. Was there only sound from one speaker when you did this?


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[NonEntity]

I suspect he is an idiot, and the impedance presented to your receiver is far too low. I have no idea of your hookup and there are a lot of ways to do it.

TLS Guy, I don't know if he is an idiot or not, but I almost certainly am, though. I apologize, I don't even know enough to know what might be important. Behind the stereo there is a wall plate with four sets of spring clip connections. On the wall with the speakers are two plates, separated, each of which has one set of spring clip connections. Both the receiver and the speakers are in the living room, but on opposite walls due to decorating requirements. The same two spring clip wall plates are in the dining room, but I had no speakers connected nor was the receiver connected to the connections for this room. I cut short (about two foot) lengths of speaker wire to connect the speakers and receiver to the wall plates; I twisted the wire and inserted but I see there are pin connectors I can use next time after I sort out any other issues. The receiver was connected on the front left and front right connections on the back.

Just about the only detail of significance you have told us about your installation is that it blew up a receiver in short order. This is pretty much the universal outcome when people are not expert in these type of installations. Every installation is different so I can provide no further guidance without knowing every last detail about your system. I suspect though you will have to call in a professional with a proven track record in these types of installations.

I don't know if there are other details I should be providing. I apologize if I have wasted your time. I do appreciate the information you have given me. I at least have some new search terms to research and I will try to learn more about impedance and how I might measure if that was the problem. I will also research multi-channel distribution amplifiers. If Logitech had not stopped making Squeezebox devices, I would have simply purchased a second Touch and a second receiver and set up the two rooms that way. In hindsight, I probably should have tracked down a used one on ebay and not attempted this method but I was told running speaker wire to the second room would be simple and cost effective (but we have also established I am probably an idiot) . Would an Emotiva UPA series amplifier be one of the devices suited to this purpose or is there a different brand/model better suited (hopefully under $1000)?

By "balance", I assume you mean "left/right". I'm wondering what the occasion was to rebalance. Was there only sound from one speaker when you did this?

Thank you for trying to help as well Nestor. No, both speakers were playing, but the right was noticeably quieter than the left. When I set it up before the remodel, I used the automatic configuration. When I was setting it back up again, we had not moved furniture in and the speakers were not in the same places, I simply intended to tweak the balance until the room was set up and run the automatic configuration again. That speaker was set lower (something like -5db vs -3db on the other side) and I was changing it to match when it turned off. Could this have done it?

Thank you both.

 

[Nestor]

I was seeing if you had a sudden gross imbalance that you were trying to correct which may have indicated a wiring problem. Your tweak wouldn't have done it.

Another possibility is that if the receiver had been sitting unpowered for some time during the renos, the thermal cycle may have toasted a component that was close to failing.

I don't see the need for an external amp for a single extra zone, as long as you aren't taxing the AVR with excessively loud volumes and/or difficult speaker loads.

As for the house wiring, I can walk you through a wire by wire
troubleshooting plan if you are handy with a multimeter, otherwise finding someone that specializes in whole home audio installs verify the wiring is the best strategy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TLS Guy]

TLS Guy, I don't know if he is an idiot or not, but I almost certainly am, though. I apologize, I don't even know enough to know what might be important. Behind the stereo there is a wall plate with four sets of spring clip connections. On the wall with the speakers are two plates, separated, each of which has one set of spring clip connections. Both the receiver and the speakers are in the living room, but on opposite walls due to decorating requirements. The same two spring clip wall plates are in the dining room, but I had no speakers connected nor was the receiver connected to the connections for this room. I cut short (about two foot) lengths of speaker wire to connect the speakers and receiver to the wall plates; I twisted the wire and inserted but I see there are pin connectors I can use next time after I sort out any other issues. The receiver was connected on the front left and front right connections on the back.



I don't know if there are other details I should be providing. I apologize if I have wasted your time. I do appreciate the information you have given me. I at least have some new search terms to research and I will try to learn more about impedance and how I might measure if that was the problem. I will also research multi-channel distribution amplifiers. If Logitech had not stopped making Squeezebox devices, I would have simply purchased a second Touch and a second receiver and set up the two rooms that way. In hindsight, I probably should have tracked down a used one on ebay and not attempted this method but I was told running speaker wire to the second room would be simple and cost effective (but we have also established I am probably an idiot) . Would an Emotiva UPA series amplifier be one of the devices suited to this purpose or is there a different brand/model better suited (hopefully under $1000)?



Thank you for trying to help as well Nestor. No, both speakers were playing, but the right was noticeably quieter than the left. When I set it up before the remodel, I used the automatic configuration. When I was setting it back up again, we had not moved furniture in and the speakers were not in the same places, I simply intended to tweak the balance until the room was set up and run the automatic configuration again. That speaker was set lower (something like -5db vs -3db on the other side) and I was changing it to match when it turned off. Could this have done it?

Thank you both.

It could be coincidence the receiver blew, but in my view the odds are against it.

So it is imperative that everything is made sure to be in proper order before connecting anything else to it. Otherwise you will likely blow another unit and void warranty.

We need to know the number of speakers, what speakers they are, how they are connected and if and where there are volume controls or switches and what type. We also need to know what the connections boxes are, and if they have any matching auto transformers, some do.

The problem is we have no idea what you really have.

Unfortunately measuring impedance is not straightforward and can not be done with a multimeter. It is not the same thing as resistance.

If the receiver did not blow by chance, then I can be pretty sure there is either a short in the wiring, or more likely the speaker connections present too low an impedance to the receiver.

 

[NonEntity]

There are only two speakers, they are Polk Monitor 70s. They are connected to the wall plate by approx two feet of 16 gauge speaker wire connected to the top connectors on the back of the speaker (same ones it was connected to before). There are no additional volume controls or switches, it is only wire run through the attic to instead of trying to run it along the baseboards. The only volume controls will be the ones on the receiver or the squeezebox. It appears the connectors in the wall at both sides are these: MODULE, SPEAKER, DUAL, BUTTON | Structured Cabling, Network Cabling, Structured Wiring Solutions | ICC. They are mounted into the wall plates in a standard size receptacle box. I did a google images search for auto transformers and speakers but I am still not sure what I would be looking for there. Would that be something I would find inside the attic? Most of what I found looked fairly large.

I continue reading to try to increase my understanding. I understand ohms is impedance and if I follow you I think you are saying something may have made my 8 ohm speakers behave as if they were 4 ohm or lower. Thus far all the references to speaker wire runs refer to longer runs increasing impedance, I am not clear on what would lower it. Is there another tool that is better than a multimeter for trying to test the wire runs?

Adding: I was careful to make sure the white stripe was connected at the red post on all eight connections.

 

[afterlife2]

Can you provide pics of the setup that way we may be able to see how it's hooked up?

 

[Nestor]

There are only two speakers, they are Polk Monitor 70s. They are connected to the wall plate by approx two feet of 16 gauge speaker wire connected to the top connectors on the back of the speaker (same ones it was connected to before). There are no additional volume controls or switches, it is only wire run through the attic to instead of trying to run it along the baseboards. The only volume controls will be the ones on the receiver or the squeezebox. It appears the connectors in the wall at both sides are these: MODULE, SPEAKER, DUAL, BUTTON | Structured Cabling, Network Cabling, Structured Wiring Solutions | ICC. They are mounted into the wall plates in a standard size receptacle box. I did a google images search for auto transformers and speakers but I am still not sure what I would be looking for there. Would that be something I would find inside the attic? Most of what I found looked fairly large.

I continue reading to try to increase my understanding. I understand ohms is impedance and if I follow you I think you are saying something may have made my 8 ohm speakers behave as if they were 4 ohm or lower. Thus far all the references to speaker wire runs refer to longer runs increasing impedance, I am not clear on what would lower it. Is there another tool that is better than a multimeter for trying to test the wire runs?

Adding: I was careful to make sure the white stripe was connected at the red post on all eight connections.

A multimeter with a resistance function and a length of wire (say, six inches) is sufficient.

So just to be clear: You have a basic system with an AVR and two speakers (ignoring the squeezebox). You remodeled and added terminal wall plates near the location for the AVR, and two plates (left and right) for your main speakers in the same room. You also added two wall plates in a second room for a set of zone 2 speakers. Given that, I'm assuming you have hookups for four speakers at the AVR wall plate and can connect one (and only one) speaker at each speaker wall plate. In sum total, you have 8 pairs of connectors.

Is this correct?

 

[Nestor]

Can you provide pics of the setup that way we may be able to see how it's hooked up?

^^^^This^^^^

 

[Rickster71]

Behind the stereo there is a wall plate with four sets of spring clip connections. On the wall with the speakers are two plates, separated, each of which has one set of spring clip connections.

Is it possible that too much insulation was removed and strands of wire are shorting inside the spring clip?
I wouldn't remove any more than half an inch of insulation.

 

[TLS Guy]

There are only two speakers, they are Polk Monitor 70s. They are connected to the wall plate by approx two feet of 16 gauge speaker wire connected to the top connectors on the back of the speaker (same ones it was connected to before). There are no additional volume controls or switches, it is only wire run through the attic to instead of trying to run it along the baseboards. The only volume controls will be the ones on the receiver or the squeezebox. It appears the connectors in the wall at both sides are these: MODULE, SPEAKER, DUAL, BUTTON | Structured Cabling, Network Cabling, Structured Wiring Solutions | ICC. They are mounted into the wall plates in a standard size receptacle box. I did a google images search for auto transformers and speakers but I am still not sure what I would be looking for there. Would that be something I would find inside the attic? Most of what I found looked fairly large.

I continue reading to try to increase my understanding. I understand ohms is impedance and if I follow you I think you are saying something may have made my 8 ohm speakers behave as if they were 4 ohm or lower. Thus far all the references to speaker wire runs refer to longer runs increasing impedance, I am not clear on what would lower it. Is there another tool that is better than a multimeter for trying to test the wire runs?

Adding: I was careful to make sure the white stripe was connected at the red post on all eight connections.

So that is a very basic set up. Really the only problem could be a short. As Rick points out, a wire touching a plate or receptacle. You should be able to sort that out with an ohm meter.

Check and see if any +ve and -ve connection are connected together and see if any +ve or -ve connects to ground. If not the wiring is OK.

Although those speakers are not new, they are a known difficult load. They are specked at 8 ohm, but they are four ohm and actually drop below. A newer receiver might like these less than your old one. So you actually could use a separate amp for those, and not because of the wiring.

 

[NonEntity]

So just to be clear: You have a basic system with an AVR and two speakers (ignoring the squeezebox). You remodeled and added terminal wall plates near the location for the AVR, and two plates (left and right) for your main speakers in the same room. You also added two wall plates in a second room for a set of zone 2 speakers. Given that, I'm assuming you have hookups for four speakers at the AVR wall plate and can connect one (and only one) speaker at each speaker wall plate. In sum total, you have 8 pairs of connectors. Is this correct?

Yes, this is exactly correct. I do have a powered subwoofer, but it was not hooked up at the time of the failure and honestly does not seem to add all that much to the music anyhow. There are connections for four speakers in the wall behind the receiver and four wall plates to connect a single speaker, two in each room.

Is it possible that too much insulation was removed and strands of wire are shorting inside the spring clip?
I wouldn't remove any more than half an inch of insulation.

Possibly? I had read the 1/2" guideline but may have erred on the longer side if I erred. I have ordered pin connectors, hopefully this would prevent a re-occurrence?

Check and see if any +ve and -ve connection are connected together and see if any +ve or -ve connects to ground. If not the wiring is OK.

Although those speakers are not new, they are a known difficult load. They are specked at 8 ohm, but they are four ohm and actually drop below. A newer receiver might like these less than your old one. So you actually could use a separate amp for those, and not because of the wiring.

TLS Guy, I am not sure exactly what you mean by +/-ve. Would this be pulling the wall plates to make sure the wires are not crossed on the inside of the box? I did not know the Polk's pulled more power than they were billed to pull, so that is useful going forward.

All: I will try to get some photos tomorrow. Are there particular shots that would be useful? I can photograph the wall plates and the wires that are still connected, or is a wider angle showing the speakers on the wall and the receiver on the wall what would be helpful? I do appreciate the help greatly and music has been important enough over the past couple of years I think I can get permission to buy whatever I need to make this work (well, at a budget price). Our contractor also had an older Sony receiver sitting in storage he offered to me, but I know I need to figure out if there are any issues before hooking anything new up. Thank you all!

 

[TLS Guy]

Yes, this is exactly correct. I do have a powered subwoofer, but it was not hooked up at the time of the failure and honestly does not seem to add all that much to the music anyhow. There are connections for four speakers in the wall behind the receiver and four wall plates to connect a single speaker, two in each room.



Possibly? I had read the 1/2" guideline but may have erred on the longer side if I erred. I have ordered pin connectors, hopefully this would prevent a re-occurrence?



TLS Guy, I am not sure exactly what you mean by +/-ve. Would this be pulling the wall plates to make sure the wires are not crossed on the inside of the box? I did not know the Polk's pulled more power than they were billed to pull, so that is useful going forward.

All: I will try to get some photos tomorrow. Are there particular shots that would be useful? I can photograph the wall plates and the wires that are still connected, or is a wider angle showing the speakers on the wall and the receiver on the wall what would be helpful? I do appreciate the help greatly and music has been important enough over the past couple of years I think I can get permission to buy whatever I need to make this work (well, at a budget price). Our contractor also had an older Sony receiver sitting in storage he offered to me, but I know I need to figure out if there are any issues before hooking anything new up. Thank you all!

+ve is the red wire and -ve is the black wire.

 

[NonEntity]

Hopefully these are useful. Please remember we are still moving back into the remodeled part of the house and furniture is being auditioned in different locations. I am somewhat concerned because it appears the favored locations for the furniture to audition are the same places I thought I was OKed to have speakers.

I will start with the closeups of the wall plates. This is the wall plate behind the receiver:

There are four of these, one for each speaker:


For the moment, this is where the receiver was intended to live. Hopefully we will add built-in shelves and cabinets as the budget allows. The plugs are behind the mirror:


This is the living room wall where the speakers are intended to go. The speakers are supposed to be further apart, one should be where the table is and one should be where the chair is:


This is the dining room, the speaker jacks are flanking the window, I have not bought the speakers for this room yet and the need to replace the receiver may put that purchase down the road a bit:

 

[NonEntity]

If everything is in place and I win the furniture placement battle, the idea is the speakers in the living room and dining room will all be pointed towards the kitchen. Since I do most of the cooking and I like music while I cook, I thought stereo-stereo would be a cool idea. I don't know that this helps at all, but if you want to picture the room layout, these last two shots are taken from in front of the stove:




Hopefully this helped? Again, I appreciate all of your input and expertise. I received the stereo wire plugs today, and I intend to carefully check that I do not have a strand of wire hanging loose at any connection. Thank you audioholics!

 

[TLS Guy]

How come you have two pairs of wires going into the same terminals?

 

[NonEntity]

TLS Guy, are you looking at the shadow from the flash? I do only have one speaker wire to each connection.