Yamaha 3030 or emotiva separates

[dertitan2]

Emotiva UMC-200 7.1 Pre-amp - $599.00
Emotiva XPA-5 (200W X 5) - $999.00
Emotiva XPA-200 (150W X 2) - $499.00
Total: $2097

Or

Yamaha 3030 - for less than $2K (dealer pricing)

difference of $700 approximately, is this amount worth going the separates path???

running energy CF-70 left/right/cc-10 center/CF-30 surround left/right, cb-20 back surround left and right, sub??? will be changing out my current ML dynamo 500, haven't decided exactly what i will get, but leaning toward (2) svs pb-2000..

p.s. i am not an audiophile....

 

[macddmac]

Get the yamaha, sell the dynamo, and buy the SVS subs.
Cheers, Mac

 

[Pyrrho]

I would go with the discontinued RX-A3020 for $1300:

Yamaha AVENTAGE RX-A3020 9.2-channel home theater receiver with Apple AirPlay® at Crutchfield.com

And I would get SVS subwoofers, the best I could reasonably afford. Since this receiver will save you some money, you might want to get a pair of higher model subwoofers.

 

[PENG]

Yamaha for sure.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yamaha or Denon for sure.

Amazon.com: Denon AVR-4311CI 9.2 Channel Network Multi-Room Home Theater Receiver with HDMI 1.4a (Discontinued by Manufacturer): Electronics

Electronics Expo would probably sell you a new Denon X4000 for $900 delivered.

 

[Tomorrow]

It's no contest. Get the Yamaha (+1 for the RX-A3020) + SVS sub(s).

 

[dertitan2]

so you would consider the pb-2000 not a "higher" model sub?

 

[dertitan2]

can I ask why? would separates by definition give you better sound?? Just asking to educate myself further, thanks for your input

 

[Nestor]

can I ask why? would separates by definition give you better sound?? Just asking to educate myself further, thanks for your input

No, not necessarily. The 3020 has a lot of great features for the price. The only thing you would gain with the separates is slightly more power, which may or may not be beneficial to you.

Gene recently wrote this article as a rule of thumb for adding external amps. You may want to check it out.

IMO, get the 3020 and spend what you save on subs. You can always add external amps to the 3020 at a later date if you decide it's not enough.

 

[dertitan2]

funny, i actually read that article yesterday afternoon

my score was in that 0 - 4 category

the only thing that surprised me was a comment above that seemed to indicate the PB-2000 were not a "higher" model sub????

 

[TheHills44060]

I'd take the Yamaha over the Emotiva stuff any day of the week.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

would separates by definition give you better sound?

Just another audio myth - another old wives' tale. And there are many. Check out a few articles from The Audio Critic. They will debunk many of these myths.

The Audio Critic

 

[Steve81]

so you would consider the pb-2000 not a "higher" model sub?

The PB-2000 is a very good subwoofer (I owned one of its predecessors/relations, the PC12-NSD), but it's not SVS' top of the line by any means.

 

[dertitan2]

total cubic square footage of my living room is approximately 3607 cubic feet, room is 22' X 16' plus a 6' X 6.6' foyer, ceiling in foyer is 8', and vaulted ceiling in living room is 10.7', i have 3 openings, a 2.5' opening into my kitchen, 6' opening into the dinning room, and a 3' opening into the hallway

total square footage including foyer is approximate 392 sf

running a 7.1 setup right now

I will be adding some acoustic panels to replace some wall art, these panels are fairly affordable....

what sub or subs would you suggest? The guys over at SVS suggested (2) of the PB-2000???

 

[Steve81]

That's a lot of space to fill, so as others have said, I'd get as much sub as I could afford. A pair of PC12-Plus' would be a fair start for not a lot more than a pair of PB2000s. From other manufacturers, you could look at Power Sound Audio's XV15se, Hsu's VTF-15H, and the Rythmik FV15HP. The PSA offering has undergone a revision lately which is claimed to deliver performance that rivals that of the PB13-Ultra/FV15HP, and Tom V. of PSA has said we should be expecting 3rd party measurements from Josh Ricci before too long.

 

[Pyrrho]

so you would consider the pb-2000 not a "higher" model sub?

"Higher" is a relative term. It is higher than the PB-1000 (which is a great subwoofer for its price), but it is lower compared with the PC12-Plus and the PC13-Ultra. At its price point, the PB-2000 is a very good subwoofer.

The point was, with the differences in electronics, you are unlikely to hear much, if any, difference (if one bypasses all special processing), whereas a better subwoofer is much more likely to make a real difference in the performance you get. Most people, in my opinion, spend far too much on electronics, and far too little on speakers (which includes subwoofers), if actual sound quality is the goal. Speakers, including subwoofers, make vastly more difference in the sound you get than electronics generally do. For the electronics to be a big deal, either one is comparing with garbage, or one has speakers that require massive power. Otherwise, the electronics will have relatively minimal effect on the sound. The new automatic setups can be different from each other and make a noticeable difference, but they cannot make up for substandard speakers or magically get more output from one's subwoofers. Also, the better the speakers you buy, the less likely you will feel the need to ever upgrade, and that can save money in the long run. In the case of receivers and processors, they are always coming out with new features that may entice you to replace whatever you buy now, which means that receivers and processors are not good long-term investments, whereas speakers never have to be replaced as long as they continue to work and one is satisfied with them.

 

[Pyrrho]

can I ask why? would separates by definition give you better sound?? Just asking to educate myself further, thanks for your input

Think about it logically for a moment. A receiver is simply one box that contains many different things (tuner, preamp, and power amp). Putting them in separate boxes will not magically make them better. So no, absolutely not; separates are not better by definition. Quality and performance are not determined by the number of boxes the gear is in.


Now, if you need massive power (but most likely, you don't), then you might want to go with separates, at least for the power amps, because they simply do not put the massively powerful amplifiers into one box with a preamp and tuner, because the one box would be ridiculously large. Imagine 7 of these all in one box:

XPR-1 Mono-block Power Amplifier | Emotiva Audio | Emotiva Audio | High-end audio components for audiophiles and videophiles, spanning 2-channel music systems, as well as 5.1 and 7.1 home theaters. Products include multichannel amplifiers, stereo amp

99 pounds x 7 = 693 pounds

Of course, some of the weight is the case, but we also need to add in the weight of the tuner and preamp. And some receivers have 9 or 11 channels of amplification, so it could get completely out of hand for all going into one box.

That said, something like the Yamaha RX-A3020 is quite powerful, and will drive most speakers more than adequately. And at its current closeout price, it is cheaper than a comparable preamp would be. It has many very nice features, including very good video processing, which may or may not be of use to you.

 

[agarwalro]

The CF70 are very efficient speakers, an AVR alone will be more than sufficient to drive them, especially if you will add a subwoofer to the mix.

 

[Pyrrho]

The CF70 are very efficient speakers, an AVR alone will be more than sufficient to drive them, especially if you will add a subwoofer to the mix.

Yes, the Yamaha is more than enough for driving those speakers. My comments were more generic, explaining why it is that someone might reasonably go with separate amplifiers instead of simply relying on the amplifiers in a receiver. For most people, the amplifiers in a receiver are fine. I use the amplification in my receiver, which is less powerful than the RX-A3020. My receiver can drive my speakers to levels I find painful with crystal clarity, so in my case, more power would be completely useless. This also is not a function of cost; my speakers retail for well over $6k. But they are an easy 8 ohms and of normal sensitivity, so no crazy power is needed.

In order for the RX-A3020 not to be adequate to drive one's speakers, one must have difficult speakers to drive. And since it has preamp outputs, one could always add whatever power amplification one needed anyway, so it is still a good choice for the preamp section for a home theater.

 

[Irvrobinson]

can I ask why? would separates by definition give you better sound?? Just asking to educate myself further, thanks for your input

The primary reasons to buy separates are:

1. You want to physically place one component separately from another. Like in my case, I wanted the pre-pro and sources many feet away from the amplifiers.

2. You want to scale or upgrade one component separately from another. For example, you might want more powerful amplifiers than are available in an AVR.

3. You want to use powered speakers, and you don't need or want the amplifiers in an AVR.

4. You simply have a preference for separates, for whatever reason, and you're willing to pay the additional costs.

Given the vigorous assertions you read on this forum about wasting money or something being unnecessary, having a preference is OK. I'd ignore anyone who asserts what you should or should not be happy with. Some people have a preference for vinyl, tube electronics, or even fancy-looking cables - and separates. If you do have a preference, cool, go for it, just don't expect audible superiority simply because the electronics are on dedicated chassis. (And if you're into tubes or vinyl, you're leaving me at the train station. )