Dedicated Home Theater Setup ~10k Help

[blcskate]

I wouldn't consider myself a complete novice, but I definitely could use some advice from people with more knowledge than me.

I am building a house right now and it has a dedicated theater space. I had a theater in my old home, but I was just using a cheap amp and KEF speakers. I am looking for a real system.

My Uses: Anime, Movie, and Video Games. I only really listen to music in the car so I want a system that is focused on the home theater side of things.

My Budget (Audio Only): ~8-10k
My Current Plan:
Speakers: Aperion Verus Grand Tower XD 7.1 - $5,094
Pre-Amp: Emotiva XMC-1 - $1,999
Amps: Emotiva XPA-5 and XPA-2 - $999 & $899

My room size is only 13x19x9. Planning on 6 seats with a 10" riser on back row.

My Questions:
Is this too much for a small theater? I am all for saving money if yes. Maybe 5T or something along those lines.
Is there some other options I should look at? Maybe, ones that are focused on HT vs Audio?
Should I be getting dipole/bipole speakers for my side surrounds or are bookselfs best? I am doing a typical 2 front, 1 center, 2 side, 2 rear, and sub front setup. Could change this if needed. I don't know much about these speakers

I want a system that can rival IMAX on a much smaller scale of course. Am I even in the ballpark here? What else should I consider?

Thank You All!!!!!

 

[shadyJ]

If you want a system that can rival an Imax, you are on the wrong track. Forget full range tower speakers, forget Aperion. I would rule out the Emotiva stuff as well. if you want an imax sound, you will need speakers with a high dynamic range and subwoofers, very good subwoofers. In your budget I would be looking at speakers like Pi Threes or Fours, JTR Noesis, JBL Pro, and so on. For subs I would be looking at Funk Audio, Seaton Sound, JTR. For electronics I would just get a good AVR, preferably one with Audyssey's Sub EQ.

Here is on system suggestion:
AVR: Denon AVR-x4000, This receiver has Audyssey's top of the line equalization system, it will automatically calibrate the sound for you. What's extra nice is that it has Audyssey's Sub EQ, so it can independently calibrate separate subwoofers, which can save you a lot of time dialing the system in. It has pre-outs in case you ever wanted to connect the speakers to separate amps.

front stage speakers: Pi Threes w/ upgraded woofer and tweeter. These are high sensitivity, high dynamic range speakers with very good sound quality and an easy impedance load. Any AVR can drive them to blazing levels, and they do not need separate amps. They will be far more powerful than the Aperion speakers. THX Reference levels, here we come!

surround speakers: JBL 8320. These are THX Certified, 8 ohm surrounds, the available measurements show good performance and they are easy to mount. They would be an easy load for any AVR, they do not need separate amps. They are inexpensive too, in fact, the least expensive THX certified speakers available, but they will still be powerful. That means a lot of bang for your buck.

Subwoofers: two passive JTR Captivator 2400s powered by two iNuke 6000 DSPs. Welcome to boomtown. This sub system is so far ahead of the Aperion subwoofer you were considering that they are incomparable. You would need many, many Aperion subs to equal a single Captivator with respect to performance. The iNuke amps should work well, there is the above linked DSP version lets you tweak the response and also limit the low end excursion. I would get the DSP version. In your room, Caps plus iNukes would get you huge and very clean bass which can dig to such low frequencies that it can only be felt rather than heard.

That is a $10k system more akin to what you hear at the Imax, and in a room like yours it could easily surpass Imax sound and go well beyond THX Reference levels. It will absolutely smoke a Emotiva/Aperion setup with respect to dynamic range. To address one of your questions, at your budget level, skip bipole surrounds, especially for a seven channel surround sound system. Seven channel surround allows for a more clear surround sound stage which would be wiped out by the ambiguous sound of bipoles or dipoles. Monopoles (speakers which project sound in a single direction ie conventional speakers) will give you a more articulate and precise surround sound stage.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

If you want a system that can rival an Imax, you are on the wrong track. Forget full range tower speakers, forget Aperion. I would rule out the Emotiva stuff as well. if you want an imax sound, you will need speakers with a high dynamic range and subwoofers, very good subwoofers. In your budget I would be looking at speakers like Pi Threes or Fours, JTR Noesis, JBL Pro, and so on. For subs I would be looking at Funk Audio, Seaton Sound, JTR. For electronics I would just get a good AVR, preferably one with Audyssey's Sub EQ.

Here is on system suggestion:
AVR: Denon AVR-x4000, This receiver has Audyssey's top of the line equalization system, it will automatically calibrate the sound for you. What's extra nice is that it has Audyssey's Sub EQ, so it can independently calibrate separate subwoofers, which can save you a lot of time dialing the system in. It has pre-outs in case you ever wanted to connect the speakers to separate amps.

front stage speakers: Pi Threes w/ upgraded woofer and tweeter. These are high sensitivity, high dynamic range speakers with very good sound quality and an easy impedance load. Any AVR can drive them to blazing levels, and they do not need separate amps. They will be far more powerful than the Aperion speakers. THX Reference levels, here we come!

surround speakers: JBL 8320. These are THX Certified, 8 ohm surrounds, the available measurements show good performance and they are easy to mount. They would be an easy load for any AVR, they do not need separate amps. They are inexpensive too, in fact, the least expensive THX certified speakers available, but they will still be powerful. That means a lot of bang for your buck.

Subwoofers: two passive JTR Captivator 2400s powered by two iNuke 6000 DSPs. Welcome to boomtown. This sub system is so far ahead of the Aperion subwoofer you were considering that they are incomparable. You would need many, many Aperion subs to equal a single Captivator with respect to performance. The iNuke amps should work well, there is the above linked DSP version lets you tweak the response and also limit the low end excursion. I would get the DSP version. In your room, Caps plus iNukes would get you huge and very clean bass which can dig to such low frequencies that it can only be felt rather than heard.

That is a $10k system more akin to what you hear at the Imax, and in a room like yours it could easily surpass Imax sound and go well beyond THX Reference levels. It will absolutely smoke a Emotiva/Aperion setup with respect to dynamic range. To address one of your questions, at your budget level, skip bipole surrounds, especially for a seven channel surround sound system. Seven channel surround allows for a more clear surround sound stage which would be wiped out by the ambiguous sound of bipoles or dipoles. Monopoles (speakers which project sound in a single direction ie conventional speakers) will give you a more articulate and precise surround sound stage.

All of these are great advises except one big issue - OP's space (or lack of it) - 13x19x9 - I would not try to shove it with pair of ported 18" subs and still have room for 6 seats comfortably
What will be used for display? If Projector and AT Screen then duty calls for Identical lcr - it could be high performance towers and pair of subs in the front with rest of speakers being installed in-walls
3 Pi's on front is ok, again - I would recommend in-wall for all surrounds - on top end - there are BG Radia, Atlantic and Wisdom Audio
For subs - physical dimensions will be heavily affect the choice of sub, but Aperion sub would really easy to beat - per bang for buck.
For HT sub one would prefer subs which have very low extension. Possibly pair of PC13-Ultra subs - no need for external amps (even at 10k value matters )
I do agree X4000 is a good start.

 

[blcskate]

What would you use for a center channel with this setup?

 

[blcskate]

I have stewart 120" screen and I am planning on getting the new Sony 4k projector.

 

[zieglj01]

What would you use for a center channel with this setup?

I have stewart 120" screen and I am planning on getting the new Sony 4k projector.

For life-like theater sound - you want the speakers to be the same across the front

With good sensitive speakers, you do not need amps

For your small room - SVS Cylinder subs can work for you > PC13 or PC12
SVS Cylinder Subwoofers

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I have stewart 120" screen and I am planning on getting the new Sony 4k projector.

is the screen is AT (Acoustically transparent) you could place speakers behind the screen. If it's not, you might have to do horizontal center speaker
Like already mentioned having identical 3 speakers on front will go a long way improving with sound imaging.

 

[shadyJ]

All of these are great advises except one big issue - OP's space (or lack of it) - 13x19x9 - I would not try to shove it with pair of ported 18" subs and still have room for 6 seats comfortably
What will be used for display? If Projector and AT Screen then duty calls for Identical lcr - it could be high performance towers and pair of subs in the front with rest of speakers being installed in-walls
3 Pi's on front is ok, again - I would recommend in-wall for all surrounds - on top end - there are BG Radia, Atlantic and Wisdom Audio
For subs - physical dimensions will be heavily affect the choice of sub, but Aperion sub would really easy to beat - per bang for buck.
For HT sub one would prefer subs which have very low extension. Possibly pair of PC13-Ultra subs - no need for external amps (even at 10k value matters )
I do agree X4000 is a good start.

If OP has room for the JTR Captivators, he rally should go for them. From what I hear, Caps even dwarf PB13 Ultras in performance. Archaea at AVSforum had two PC13 Ultras and replaced them with a single Captivator, and says that was a huge upgrade. As for in-walls for surrounds, there are good in-walls but they will all be expensive and crowd a $10k budget for great front stage speakers and subs. The JBLs promise to be great performers, are inexpensive, and out of the way since they can be mounted near the ceiling. BG Radia, Atlantic, great stuff but very costly from what I know, and will diminish the front stage and subs by putting pressure on the budget.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

not going to discuss the merits and performance of Captivators - they are certainly very capable, but in small room a pair of PC13 Ultras will deliver already insane amounts of bass

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

$10K will buy you a serious home theater system for sure.

For processor, I would get a Denon X4000. You might be able to get one for $800 new.

Your room is not that big. Depending on your listening volume, you might not even need an amp IMO. Just make sure to keep the Denon X4000 well ventilated and your room cool. For extended use > 3hrs continuous, I would add a small quiet fan to keep the AVR cool.

For subwoofers, I prefer passive subwoofers (like RBH SX-1010N or more expensive subs from Funk) only because I like the flexibility of using external amps for all my speakers and subs. However, most people prefer active subs from Rythmik, SVS, HSU, etc.

The choices for speakers are vast. I personally like Revel Performa3, KEF R-series, RBH SX-series and Atlantic Technology.

So for my personal choice, I would get an RBH SX-system for both passive speakers and passive subs and the Denon X4000.

Oh, yeah, don't forget to get 2 PCs (one for backup ) for your HT room. Then install XBMC for free. Then you can start adding 800+ HD movies and HD TV shows to your collection on-the-fly (details with have to be discussed off forum).

I think I'm at around 750 HD movies as of today. Probably be around 800 movies by May.

 

[agarwalro]

With that much subwoofer in that small a room, you're going to need a prodigious about of bass trapping to sufficiently damp the modal ringing.

The subs will definitely need to be placed in locations that counteract modes/ complement each other to create a uniform spectral excitation. After that balance is optimized, trap trap trap and then, trap some more...

 

[blcskate]

Thanks for the help. I have already learned some new things. I never knew about the center channel being the same as the fronts. My current screen is not AT, but this is making me consider it heavily. The only problem is the wall on the front of the theater is an outside block wall so I don't have room to mount the speaker behind the screen. On the inside walls I did put a lot of effort into soundproofing. Spacers in walls, Roxal in wall, putty on all sockets, rubber flooring under subfloor, hung plywood on the wall spacers followed by green glue and acoustic drywall. This was all based on a theater recommendation from a local custom installer in Orlando. I really wanted to do the electronics all myself so I can know them inside and out and make changes as needed.

In a worst case if I cannot speaker mount behind the screen it sounds like I need to go with a horizontal center at the bottom of my screen. Do you guys have any recommendations for that where it would not impact the sound stage to much? I can't see me dropping the fronts to 30" of the floor to match the center. I still have a little time. I might be able to reverse the room layout and increase the wall depth on the inside. Then make that the front of my theater instead. Is this going to be a critical point?

 

[blcskate]

$10K will buy you a serious home theater system for sure.

For processor, I would get a Denon X4000. You might be able to get one for $800 new.

Your room is not that big. Depending on your listening volume, you might not even need an amp IMO. Just make sure to keep the Denon X4000 well ventilated and your room cool. For extended use > 3hrs continuous, I would add a small quiet fan to keep the AVR cool.

For subwoofers, I prefer passive subwoofers (like RBH SX-1010N or more expensive subs from Funk) only because I like the flexibility of using external amps for all my speakers and subs. However, most people prefer active subs from Rythmik, SVS, HSU, etc.

The choices for speakers are vast. I personally like Revel Performa3, KEF R-series, RBH SX-series and Atlantic Technology.

So for my personal choice, I would get an RBH SX-system for both passive speakers and passive subs and the Denon X4000.

Oh, yeah, don't forget to get 2 PCs (one for backup ) for your HT room. Then install XBMC for free. Then you can start adding 800+ HD movies and HD TV shows to your collection on-the-fly (details with have to be discussed off forum).

I think I'm at around 750 HD movies as of today. Probably be around 800 movies by May.

Awesome post. Thank you. I already have a HTPC and I am considering a ~30TB server with raid 5 for my collection (>5k DVDs and Blu-Rays). My long term goal is to get a second 4k projector and have true passive 3D at 4k. Best possible 3D solution. Quality is my #1 goal, but I don't have unlimited budget so I have to do what I can. This year I have 30k for the whole room. I put 3k extra in the walls/floor, planning on 13k for the projector, 4k on seats, and 10k for audio. Next year I could potentially add some of the other stuff. I could drop down to a 1080p projector and wait for 4k to come down in price a bit. That would change my budget a lot.

PM me on your HTPC setup. I am interested what you did for storage. I build my own typically. I am an IT consultant by trade.

 

[blcskate]

Everyone seems to agree pretty much on the Denon x4000. I will get one of those for sure. Way cheaper then the separates I was looking at. I always thought separates were considered the best of the best. That is why I was looking at Emotiva (affordable ones).

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Awesome post. Thank you. I already have a HTPC and I am considering a ~30TB server with raid 5 for my collection (>5k DVDs and Blu-Rays).

PM me on your HTPC setup. I am interested what you did for storage. I build my own typically. I am an IT consultant by trade.

Oh, well, if you are IT, then you should be teaching me a thing or two.

 

[shadyJ]

Waiting for the 4k projectors to come down in price might make sense since connecting everything might be easier when HDMI 2.0 becomes more widespread and adopted on 4k projectors. That way you will get 60 FPS of 4k resolution instead of 24 fps. Since you intend for a 3D system, a 60 fps projector would be a lot easier to work with than two 24 FPS projectors. Also, it shouldn't be too long before other companies release 4k projectors, and when they do, prices should plummet for the existing models.

As for separate amplifiers, what determines whether you should get them is the speakers. Some speakers pull a lot of current through the amp, and for many AVRs it can be more than they should try to handle. Current generates heat, and heat is the enemy of electronics reliability. If you don't feel like forking out more dough for separate amps, aim for speakers with a 6 ohm rating or above. It'd be best to look at an impedance chart though, to see what's really going on. If you want a system to settle down with, it might be prudent to get separate amps, if only to take a load of the AVR and prolong its life.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

PM me on your HTPC setup. I am interested what you did for storage. I build my own typically. I am an IT consultant by trade.

You would never guess what I do for a living, no don't even try. PM is a hassle, my htpc is in my sig, but i don't recommend to follow that route. It was a learning thing, shoving in zfs into ubuntu server ... it's not pretty, but it works...

Next time Freenas/zfs with jailed plugins is what I would do. openelec/XBMC is best media client combo imo and ADTG would agree

 

[JohnnieB]

Wanted to throw Ascend Acoustics Sierra 2's and Horizon center in the hat for consideration. Would be about 4k for 5 channel, 5.5k for 7. Add subs.

 

[monkish54]

My best advice for you would be to give me the money and watch what I do with it.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

My best advice for you would be to give me the money and watch what I do with it.

What would you do with it if you had to BUY it and NOT BUILD it?

I know you have auditioned many speakers. Have you ever auditioned the RBH SX-T2?

A friend of mine says he likes the bass portion of the SX-T2, which is the SX-1010N sub, but he was not as impressed with the top portion of it, which is the SX-T1.

When I first auditioned the T2, I loved the sound - all of it. But the aesthetics turned me off; I thought it was ugly. Then after I bought the Revel, Linkwitz, KEF, etc., RBH came out with the nicer aesthetic SX-series.

I'm thinking that if RBH had come out with the SX-series sooner, I might have bought the whole SX-system back then - like five SX-T2. Sounds crazy, but that's what I'm thinking.