Preamp selections 2 channel

[sharkman]

What? His speakers are the problem? Jinjuku and TLS, have you auditioned the Sierra 2's? Whatever… Ematthews, if I was you I'd quit trying to please strangers on the internet. Ask the owner of Ascend what electronics would have a good warm sound with those speakers and ask him about your short list. There are too many egos pushing their schools of thought and pet brands here and you will never get a consensus here. You are approaching information overload by now I should think. Good luck in your efforts.

 

[jinjuku]

What? His speakers are the problem? Jinjuku and TLS, have you auditioned the Sierra 2's?

I think you failed in reading my posts. Where did I say his speakers are a/the problem?

 

[RichB]

Some stark talk here, but If I had $3500 to spend, I would spend $3000 on speakers and $500 on a receiver or integrated amp.
Then, I would build up my funds and, sell the receiver and get a better rig.

If you go the pro-amp route, make sure the preamp has sufficient voltage out to drive it.

There is nothing the Oppo wont do that you need done and it will do so much more.
If that doesn't sound good to you, save up for new speakers.
For me, it is speakers first, then electronics. However, if the other way round gets you there, so be it.


- Rich

 

[TLS Guy]

Well, that's telling him, he's a slow learner who owns junk for speakers and wears a tin foil hat. Maybe you should knock off for a while. You're posting in a thread called PREAMP SELECTIONS TWO CHANNEL. Digital, video processing and HDMI inputs need not apply.

What I'm getting at that you should not over obsess about the quality of a preamp. Any speaker designer can only drool at the audio spec of even the most lowly preamp.

I do think it is now time for any reference system to have digital inter connectivity and processing in the preamp stage. That is the logical place to put it. These days if you are investing in a reference system I believe it should be video capable. I think audio only systems are pretty much fading in the rear view mirror.

And yes, in any system the speakers basically set the audio quality and presentation. If you don't like your sound, it usually takes a speaker change to improve it.

 

[ematthews]

Thanks everyone. Guess I asked for it... I must really be dumb. I think the the Ascend Sierra 2's are fantastic. I guess I will put them on ebay this weekend.

 

[jinjuku]

Thanks everyone. Guess I asked for it... I must really be dumb. I think the the Ascend Sierra 2's are fantastic. I guess I will put them on ebay this weekend.

For my part I was simply asking to make sure. In the past with other members, until the question was asked, the member never looked at it that way. When I see electronics roulette it's something that I will eventually ask.

It really doesn't hurt to take the entire setup and put it in the spot light. I'm glad you love your Sierra 2's. I have never heard a bad thing about them.

The Oppo 105 is the way I would go and totally eschew a traditional pre-amp given the flexibility of that unit. It's a game changer IMO.

 

[RichB]

Thanks everyone. Guess I asked for it... I must really be dumb. I think the the Ascend Sierra 2's are fantastic. I guess I will put them on ebay this weekend.

I have not heard the Siearra 2's but the measurements are excellent both on and off axis.
The BDP-105 does fine preamp as a preamp if you do not mind not have a volume knob and room correction.
Here is the AH review of the 105:

Oppo BDP-105 Blu-ray Player Review: The Universal Audiophile Dream Machine? | Audioholics


If you go that route, you probably may need the gain closer to make sure that the 105 can drive it.
Most consumer amps have a 29 DB gain which is no problem.

- Rich

 

[jinjuku]

If you go that route, you probably may need the gain closer to make sure that the 105 can drive it.
Most consumer amps have a 29 DB gain which is no problem.

- Rich

The Oppo's XLR output is 4.2 Vrms (XLR) at 0dBFS. It's going to drive any properly designed XLR input just fine. Your typical voltage gain between 26-29.

If I was to replace my current sound card it would be computer to Oppo. I wouldn't really consider anything else and I don't think there is a $4k piece out there that can do any better.

 

[TLS Guy]

Thanks everyone. Guess I asked for it... I must really be dumb. I think the the Ascend Sierra 2's are fantastic. I guess I will put them on ebay this weekend.

Your not understanding my post. I would say the same thing even if you had the best 100K speakers. The point is the specs of even a lowly preamp offering are going to knock the specs of any speaker out of the ball park.

So you need to concentrate on what features you need now and will want in the future. Reliability should be a big factor, as well as convenience and ergonomics. If I blindfolded you, the only one you might pick out would be the passive horror. Otherwise you won't tell the difference. Forget nit picking distortion and the audiophools. At the current level of speaker technology you won't tell the difference.

At least we have established you like your speakers, and any of these recommendations will not change your SQ, just facilitate things.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Maybe you can try a used stereo preamp for around $300 on eBay.

I used to own a class-A Acurus RL11 preamp. Actually 4 of them. I thought it was great for what it did back then.

It was reviewed by The Audio Critic. I think SNR was -90dB unweighted, Crosstalk was -90dB 20Hz-20kHz, THD was <0.01%, FR 20Hz-20kHz +/-0.1dB.

 

[Adam]

ADTG - sorry for being about a month late in noticing, but welcome to Slumlord!

Now, whenever something goes wrong with how the forum's working, we can blame you for never fixing anything.

 

[PENG]

Maybe you can try a used stereo preamp for around $300 on eBay.

I used to own a class-A Acurus RL11 preamp. Actually 4 of them. I thought it was great for what it did back then.

It was reviewed by The Audio Critic. I think SNR was -90dB unweighted, Crosstalk was -90dB 20Hz-20kHz, THD was <0.01%, FR 20Hz-20kHz +/-0.1dB.

Problem is, at certain point most amps just don't sound bright or warm any more and should sound neutral when matched with speakers that are designed to be driven by most competent amps. There are always exceptions and there are amps designed to sound warm.

Let's start calling a spade a spade, well made preamps and amps like those made by Anthem, Bryston, Krell, Musical Fidelit, Marantz, Parasound, Passlabs, McIntosh, even Bel Canto, are going to sound similar to the point it is hard to pick one out when listened in blindfold. Obviously the list could go on but I just want to list Brands I have at least listened to. In my opinion (not necessarily facts but could be), those who reported night and day difference amongs such amps are either exagerrating to make a point, not volume matching or did somethin wrong in their setups, Placebo prone, or a combination of those things.

I have done my share of trying to find the best combination of components I can afford and am getting tired as my efforts always ended in realizing to get the best sound quality reference to unamplified sound I heard in live concerts, I must only listen to media, digital or analog that give me that kind of sound quality. Beyond that, it is the speakers that determine sound quality in my room. REQ such as XT32 works for me too as it does a great job with bass management, saving me hours of trial and error.

One last thing I am trying to find out once and for all, is whether the highly regarded Oppo 105, with the flag ship ESS chip makes any difference when compared to the entry level ESS chip equipped USB DAC I have and a flag ship Burr Brown/TI DAC chip equipped portable player that I am on order. Early indication is that the answer would be no, but I need more time. Regardless of that outcome I will still acquire a HA-1, obviously for reasons other than sound quality.

For the OP, I admire his patience evidenced in his multiple threads. I really think he should stick with his Marantz Integrated amp, even if that means buying a second one of the same, new or used. Or just pull the trigger on one of those warm sounding pre/power or integrated amps by design. Other than that, a sub with integrated REQ should also help him greatly, but that's just my guess.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

ADTG - sorry for being about a month late in noticing, but welcome to Slumlord!

Now, whenever something goes wrong with how the forum's working, we can blame you for never fixing anything.

Thanks.

I just now noticed that I joined AH in July 2007, you joined July 2006, so you are only 1 year ahead of me. Yet, you have posted almost twice as many as I.

It's like 30K to 15K.

And you even took a hiatus at one point secondary to that Emotiva snafu and fiasco!

That's why you're a Jedi Knight.

 

[Adam]

And you even took a hiatus at one point secondary to that Emotiva snafu and fiasco!

And that one was just six months. I left for 17 months a little while later. Who knows what name Clint would have given me if I'd stuck around and hit 40k. I am curious about what's waiting at 30k. Maybe nothing...

Alrighty, thanks for the sidetrack. Back to the preamp discussion.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Problem is, at certain point most amps just don't sound bright or warm any more and should sound neutral when matched with speakers that are designed to be driven by most competent amps. There are always exceptions and there are amps designed to sound warm.

Let's start calling a spade a spade, well made preamps and amps like those made by Anthem, Bryston, Krell, Musical Fidelit, Marantz, Parasound, Passlabs, McIntosh, even Bel Canto, are going to sound similar to the point it is hard to pick one out when listened in blindfold. Obviously the list could go on but I just want to list Brands I have at least listened to. In my opinion (not necessarily facts but could be), those who reported night and day difference amongs such amps are either exagerrating to make a point, not volume matching or did somethin wrong in their setups, Placebo prone, or a combination of those things.

I have done my share of trying to find the best combination of components I can afford and am getting tired as my efforts always ended in realizing to get the best sound quality reference to unamplified sound I heard in live concerts, I must only listen to media, digital or analog that give me that kind of sound quality. Beyond that, it is the speakers that determine sound quality in my room. REQ such as XT32 works for me too as it does a great job with bass management, saving me hours of trial and error.

One last thing I am trying to find out once and for all, is whether the highly regarded Oppo 105, with the flag ship ESS chip makes any difference when compared to the entry level ESS chip equipped USB DAC I have and a flag ship Burr Brown/TI DAC chip equipped portable player that I am on order. Early indication is that the answer would be no, but I need more time. Regardless of that outcome I will still acquire a HA-1, obviously for reasons other than sound quality.

For the OP, I admire his patience evidenced in his multiple threads. I really think he should stick with his Marantz Integrated amp, even if that means buying a second one of the same, new or used. Or just pull the trigger on one of those warm sounding pre/power or integrated amps by design. Other than that, a sub with integrated REQ should also help him greatly, but that's just my guess.

You know where I stand. Amps are amps to me. Preamps are preamps to me. DACs are DACs to me. Players are players to me. Analog is obsolete to me. Digital is the present and future to me. Both my $2K BD players are boxed up in the closet. At one point I had that $4K Denon super universal player also.

No way any Oppo analog is going to sound better to me. Not happening. Heard it once too many times.

But it's okay if others feel differently. I learn MY lesson for both speakers and electronics. Not falling for anymore hearsay.

How many times have we heard people claim this speaker and that component sound better? How many speakers, amps, preamps, pre-pros, and media players have we bought to prove it? Too many.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

And that one was just six months. I left for 17 months a little while later. Who knows what name Clint would have given me if I'd stuck around and hit 40k. I am curious about what's waiting at 30k. Maybe nothing...

Alrighty, thanks for the sidetrack. Back to the preamp discussion.

Wow. 6 + 17 months hiatus.

My longest break was probably one week.

30K is just around the corner for you. Scary. Okay, back to preamps and amps.

I am now listening to Yo-Yo Ma Plays Ennio Morricone while copying files from one PC to my 3 HTPCs and chatting on AH.

 

[PENG]

You know where I stand. Amps are amps to me. Preamps are preamps to me. DACs are DACs to me. Players are players to me. Analog is obsolete to me. Digital is the present and future to me. Both my $2K BD players are boxed up in the closet. At one point I had that $4K Denon super universal player also.

No way any Oppo analog is going to sound better to me. Not happening. Heard it once too many times.

But it's okay if others feel differently. I learn MY lesson for both speakers and electronics. Not falling for anymore hearsay.

How many times have we heard people claim this speaker and that component sound better? How many speakers, amps, preamps, pre-pros, and media players have we bought to prove it? Too many.

Yes I know, and am not far behind you. After my DAC comparison experiments I will be done and will start spending my time in enjoying the music I love, not the gear.. That's not to say I won't acquire more gear, but it won't be for sound quality.

 

[ematthews]

You know where I stand. Amps are amps to me. Preamps are preamps to me. DACs are DACs to me. Players are players to me. Analog is obsolete to me. Digital is the present and future to me. Both my $2K BD players are boxed up in the closet. At one point I had that $4K Denon super universal player also.

No way any Oppo analog is going to sound better to me. Not happening. Heard it once too many times.

But it's okay if others feel differently. I learn MY lesson for both speakers and electronics. Not falling for anymore hearsay.

How many times have we heard people claim this speaker and that component sound better? How many speakers, amps, preamps, pre-pros, and media players have we bought to prove it? Too many.

Acu.... do you not use a BD player in your HT set up? I'm realy starting to swing towards changing to the complete AVR set up and incorporating my tv into the set up.. This way I can watch some of my BD video concerts from Steven Wilson etc.

 

[TLS Guy]

Acu.... do you not use a BD player in your HT set up? I'm realy starting to swing towards changing to the complete AVR set up and incorporating my tv into the set up.. This way I can watch some of my BD video concerts from Steven Wilson etc.

Now you are getting it. PENG has told you the same thing I did about SQ.

I think it is a mistake not to have video capability with audio these days. I think most of us here have a lot of AV sources, including BD.

So once you accept you are going to have video, it really comes down to flexibility. So make sure you have lots of HDMI inputs.

I still think a Marantz pre/pro will give the most cost effective, flexible and ergonomic solution. You need have no worries about sound quality. Ease and convenience are very important considerations. I can't stress enough the importance of planning your signal flow, unit and cable layout.

We get quite a few posts here about systems that are just ghastly awkward lash ups. Don't join them.

 

[RichB]

Let's start calling a spade a spade, well made preamps and amps like those made by Anthem, Bryston, Krell, Musical Fidelit, Marantz, Parasound, Passlabs, McIntosh, even Bel Canto, are going to sound similar to the point it is hard to pick one out when listened in blindfold. Obviously the list could go on but I just want to list Brands I have at least listened to. In my opinion (not necessarily facts but could be), those who reported night and day difference amongs such amps are either exagerrating to make a point, not volume matching or did somethin wrong in their setups, Placebo prone, or a combination of those things.

With amps, I would like to see increased testing into difficult loads and multi-tone measurements. There are measureable differences showing increased harmonics with two tone tests. Some lower end (Emotiva U series) amps show significantly more harmonics than a Parasound/Bryston and many others.
This might account for some of the difference heard by the op. I wont rule that out.

My preamps mostly sound the same but there can be subtle differences. So subtle, that using an XLR switch between an analog Class-a preamp and the Marantz AV8801, I thought the switch was broken until I changed the volume on one. The Marantz is a bit brighter sounding, definitely subtle. There is no way, I could detect this without a switch, but I believe, over time a reasonable person could develop a preference. (No SBT yet, but I have level matched with pink noise, the OmniMic2, and my ears)

One last thing I am trying to find out once and for all, is whether the highly regarded Oppo 105, with the flag ship ESS chip makes any difference when compared to the entry level ESS chip equipped USB DAC I have and a flag ship Burr Brown/TI DAC chip equipped portable player that I am on order. Early indication is that the answer would be no, but I need more time. Regardless of that outcome I will still acquire a HA-1, obviously for reasons other than sound quality.

We refer to them DACs but they are much more USB Drivers, USB interfaces (some asynchronous, some not), the DACs, preamp, and volume control.
There seem to some synergies between driver, settings and playback software and some combinations sound better than others (to me ). For example, with Oppo, 44.1/16 (and others formats) sound best to me when with bit-depth is not altered by the playback software. There are also settings within the USB driver that can alter the sound. For the most part, these are subtle differences.

For the OP, I admire his patience evidenced in his multiple threads. I really think he should stick with his Marantz Integrated amp, even if that means buying a second one of the same, new or used. Or just pull the trigger on one of those warm sounding pre/power or integrated amps by design. Other than that, a sub with integrated REQ should also help him greatly, but that's just my guess.

For the Op, he was waited his long, maybe he should hold out for the HA-1

The simplest solution would be to sell his components and keep the speakers. Replace it with a BDP-105 and good amp. Simple, easy, and a huge increase in capability is provided by the 105's networks capability and apps.


View attachment 13368

- Rich