Preamp selections 2 channel

[macddmac]

P5/ A21 I cried once and now I'm so glad I did it!
Cheers, Mac

 

[Irvrobinson]

On your last point, obviously that new ATI amp is less balanced than the old one, which was basically two bridged amps.

What is "less balanced", and how do you know this? Do you have a schematic, or just that silly press release? ATI still calls the amp "fully balanced", and I'm guessing it is, even based on the marketing nonsense.

However, that is almost certainly to the good.

Why is that? Not that I care, per se, but in another thread Gene provided compelling measured proof that a bridged amp had lower distortion than an unbridged version of the same amp. Bridging reduces the ability of the amp to drive lower impedance loads, but you didn't mention that. What other drawback did you have in mind?

Finally a word about noise. A 50% reduction is 3 db. Now if you can't hear noise in you chair at a volume setting at concert pitch there is no problem. If you can't hear the noise you can't improve it, can you? Now noise of all units in the chain is additive. I have my sources, the pre pro, a bunch of electronic crossovers, buffer amps and 14 amp channels. Even on the Minnesota Orchestras Grammy winning SACD of Sibelius symphonies 1 & 4 under Osmo Vanska I don't here noise at concert level. Osmo by the way is legendary for huge dynamics. He gets the quietest pianissimos and the loudest fortes. I hear no intrusive background, so there is no point in me trying to lower the nose floor further. When it comes to balanced circuits in an amp, balancing the input helps with common mode rejection, however in domestic situations this is rarely an issue.

I agree. I have an unbalanced ATI amp and I can't hear any difference in noise level as compared with the fully balanced model, even with my ear an inch from the tweeter.

The reason the output stage is balanced has nothing to do with noise, but power output.

Do you want to amend this assertion?

Now that designer, claims a 50% (3db) improvement in noise by only balancing input and output. Well you would expect that wouldn't you? You have pretty much halved the components in the voltage gain stages where most of the noise is generated, so you should have a 3db reduction in noise. I rest my case!

No, this is not what I would expect, and, BTW, I think you misread the statement in that announcement. You don't think the noise in the balanced halves will be subject to the CMRR?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The ATI ATP7700 pre-pro would look great with the ATI AT2002.

ATI ATP7700 Preamp Processor (120/240V) - A/V Processors

Really, if all I ever wanted was a plain Jane 2Ch analog stereo preamp and didn't care for Audyssey XT32 + dual Sub EQ + DEQ, I would get this ATI pre-pro brand new for only $800 (MSRP $4,000).

Since I do care, I would get the Marantz pre-pro or just the Denon X4000 AVR.

How do you think the 2 ATI combo look together?

The 2 Parasound Halo look great together as well.

I wish ATI would just buy the Denon X4000, remove the amp section and stick it into the ATP7700's case. I'll buy it for $2K.

 

[jinjuku]

Denon DN-500AV $1099



I would be willing to bet, OP blind folded, they couldn't tell which would be the Denon vs the Parasound vs the NAD. Plus lets face it the Denon blows them out of the water for connectivity and creature comforts. Sub management is a nice plus.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Denon DN-500AV $1099

View attachment 13362
View attachment 13363
I would be willing to bet, OP blind folded, they couldn't tell which would be the Denon vs the Parasound vs the NAD. Plus lets face it the Denon blows them out of the water for connectivity and creature comforts. Sub management is a nice plus.

Good find. Excellent option.

Too bad it doesn't have Audyssey XT32 + dual SubEQ + DEQ like the X4000.

On the plus side, it is a pre-pro, looks good, low price, and is great if the OP does not care for any DEQ and XT32 (since Parasound, NAD, and all stereo preamps also lack these features).

Just remove those side rack handles and you got yourself a consumer pre-pro that could hang with the best (minus the XT32, etc.).

 

[jinjuku]

Good find. Excellent option.

Too bad it doesn't have Audyssey XT32 + dual SubEQ + DEQ like the X4000.

On the plus side, it is a pre-pro, looks good, low price, and is great if the OP does not care for any DEQ and XT32 (since Parasound, NAD, and all stereo preamps also lack these features).

Just remove those side rack handles and you got yourself a consumer pre-pro that could hang with the best (minus the XT32, etc.).

I can't wait for some member here to chime in about how I'm always recommending 'Pro-Audio' and 'DIY'

Those rack handles will line right up with the ATI amps

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I can't wait for some member here to chime in about how I'm always recommending 'Pro-Audio' and 'DIY'

Well, I don't mind big front metal handles, but don't care for side rack panels.

As far as "pro" gears, if they look good, it doesn't matter to me. And that Denon looks pretty good. I wonder why I didn't go that route a long time ago when I was all about analog and couldn't care less about DEQ.

I wouldn't mind having that Lexicon 8Ch amp, but I would mind having that Crown 8Ch amp, even though they are the same amp; the Lexicon is just 100% better looking.

 

[ReUpRo]

View attachment 13363

After TLS Guy went through all the trouble to explain why balanced connections are unnecessary (unless one has long cable runs in an interference prone environment) and potentially detrimental (when circuitry develops bias) you go and post a pre-amp with... I chuckled .

 

[crossedover]

I prefer xlr, speakon,etc just for easy secure connections

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

After TLS Guy went through all the trouble to explain why balanced connections are unnecessary (unless one has long cable runs in an interference prone environment) and potentially detrimental (when circuitry develops bias) you go and post a pre-amp with... I chuckled .

Street price on this Denon pre-pro is probably ~ $800 with 5 HDMI-1.4 Inputs in back, Balanced outputs, DTS-HD MA/Dolby TrueHD decoding. That's got to be tough to beat. I'd say this is one of the best finds.

I think XLR connectors are nice to have.

 

[jinjuku]

After TLS Guy went through all the trouble to explain why balanced connections are unnecessary (unless one has long cable runs in an interference prone environment) and potentially detrimental (when circuitry develops bias) you go and post a pre-amp with... I chuckled .

TLS Guy, from what I read, was talking about a design that is differential from I to O. And he's correct. It's twice the part count. This Denon isn't that. OpAmp on the analog I/O.

I'll take balanced connections any day of the week personally. They are easier to work with IMO. CMNR doesn't hurt either.

 

[jinjuku]

Street price on this Denon pre-pro is probably ~ $800 with 5 HDMI-1.4 Inputs in back, Balanced outputs, DTS-HD MA/Dolby TrueHD decoding. That's got to be tough to beat. I'd say this is one of the best finds.

I think XLR connectors are nice to have.

It's $1099 from about anywhere. I can get dealer pricing on this however (and am waiting for the call back out of curiosity).

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

It's $1099 from about anywhere. I can get dealer pricing on this however (and am waiting for the call back out of curiosity).

Yeah, MSRP is about the same as the Denon 3310/3311/3312/3313. Dealer price is definitely a lot lower.

If this Denon pre-pro had been advertised (minus the pro-rack look), I think it would have been a hot seller. Seriously, I probably would have bought one a few years ago.

 

[crossedover]

Looks to have a 9 band manual EQ with Plethora of speaker options also.

 

[jinjuku]

Looks to have a 9 band manual EQ with Plethora of speaker options also.

I downloaded the 139 page user guide. It's not lacking for features, just features that serve the installed sound reinforcement market.

Most likely this would feed an external processor like Lake / BSS etc...

I could CERTAINLY make this work in a 7.1 home theater or 2.0/2.1 stereo. It's a very flexible unit.

 

[crossedover]

Ya picking up a used DBX or Lake for under 500 would work well. It sure would look great on my middle Atlantic rack

 

[RichB]

If the Denon DN-500AV had 7.1 analog inputs , I might sell my AV8801... and put some money in my pocket.

- Rich

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

If the Denon DN-500AV had 7.1 analog inputs , I might sell my AV8801... and put some money in my pocket.

- Rich

The $800 ($4K MSRP) ATI ATP7700 has 7.1 Inputs and Outputs. No HDMIs, though. This one is really just for audio.

http://www.ati-amp.com/ATP7700.php

 

[RichB]

The $800 ($4K MSRP) ATI ATP7700 has 7.1 Inputs and Outputs. No HDMIs, though. This one is really just for audio.

ATI ATP 7700

Old technology with no HD Audio decoding (DTS-HD, Dolby True-HD).
Zero WAF.
No XLR's (hey, I like them)

- Rich

 

[jinjuku]

The $800 ($4K MSRP) ATI ATP7700 has 7.1 Inputs and Outputs. No HDMIs, though. This one is really just for audio.

ATI ATP 7700

I'm scratching my head over ATI keeping something like that on the market. 1998 called and they want their quadro-phonic pre-pro back

Next year you will see it Goodwill for $25 and a sign next to it: ($4K MSRP).

Sorry to bust your chops but IMO they are really trying hard at selling an antique.