I Am a Ukrainian

[Rickster71]

Are you recommending that we retreat from the world stage and forgo any influence we know have economically/politically? In short, let the Russians & Chinese take center stage and do whatever they want? I'm not trying being antagonistic here. I'm just trying to understand your reasoning.

I'm not saying it's necessarily the case here.
Your quantum leap not withstanding... No, I guess I see other countries as I do the many special interest groups in the USA.
The squeaky wheel gets the grease, if you will.

I'm supposed to be working. Forgive me for not elaborating more.

 

[Ponzio]

I love it when we discuss history.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say your being facetious.

Of course we could ignore history and keep making the same mistakes over and over and over and over and over again, which humanity seems to do with some regularity.

 

[Ponzio]

I'm not saying it's necessarily the case here.
Your quantum leap not withstanding... No, I guess I see other countries as I do the many special interest groups in the USA.
The squeaky wheel gets the grease, if you will.

I believe that's my cue to get off the stage.

Have a good day gentlemen.

 

[GO-NAD!]

There's a difference between sanctions and bringing them to their knees. I agree that the nuclear option is (luckily and thankfully) highly unlikely, but I do believe that it is always a consideration in the decisions that are made.

What I mean is that if the west imposed hard sanctions, i.e. stopped purchasing oil & gas, the Russian government would lose 75%-80% of it's revenues. That would soon bring any government to its knees. However, such sanctions would also inflict so much pain on Europe, that I don't believe anything of that nature will happen. Which is why I believe any sanctions will be purely symbolic so that the west can save face and claim that "we" are doing something.

I agree with you that the fact that Russia has a powerful, nuclear-armed military makes it a factor in the west's decision-making. At the same time, I don't think it's a "real" factor, because the military option would be instantly dismissed as reckless.

 

[Ponzio]

What I mean is that if the west imposed hard sanctions, i.e. stopped purchasing oil & gas, the Russian government would lose 75%-80% of it's revenues. That would soon bring any government to its knees. However, such sanctions would also inflict so much pain on Europe, that I don't believe anything of that nature will happen. Which is why I believe any sanctions will be purely symbolic so that the west can save face and claim that "we" are doing something.

I agree with you that the fact that Russia has a powerful, nuclear-armed military makes it a factor in the west's decision-making. At the same time, I don't think it's a "real" factor, because the military option would be instantly dismissed as reckless.

I know, I know, I said I was getting off the stage.

I quite agree with GO-NAD's analysis. Here's an up to date article from the Washington Post on the subject.
Europe divided over Russia as NATO meets on Ukraine crisis - The Washington Post

 

[Chu Gai]

Please show me those polls/reference with a link to a valid national polling organization in Russia to support that claim. I'll go on record and place a $100 wager that it is false.

How Putin's Ukraine Invasion Is a Disaster for Russia | TIME.com

 

[Ponzio]

How Putin's Ukraine Invasion Is a Disaster for Russia | TIME.com

Well up to this point everything I had read indicated otherwise but obviously a reporters impressions are trumped by this. I was way wrong, I guess. No, there's no guessing about it. I missed the mark. I apologize Chu. Please PM me with your name and address and I'll get that check out to you.

While I'm at it, I might as well order that crows pie from the baker that everyone is raving about.

 

[Chu Gai]

I don't want the money, Ponzio. But if you really feel like it, take the $100, and using your personal discretion, pick out people like mothers with kids who look like they might need a break and pick up the tab. Maybe at a BK or such. Not Starbucks, those folks have discretionary funds. Do it a few times and spread some joy. Might catch on a little.

 

[GO-NAD!]

How Putin's Ukraine Invasion Is a Disaster for Russia | TIME.com

Well up to this point everything I had read indicated otherwise but obviously a reporters impressions are trumped by this. I was way wrong, I guess. No, there's no guessing about it. I missed the mark. I apologize Chu. Please PM me with your name and address and I'll get that check out to you.

While I'm at it, I might as well order that crows pie from the baker that everyone is raving about.

Very interesting article. If the writer has his facts straight, well....excellent! I'd love to see Putin put in his place. But, I never base my assessment of a situation on one article, or one opinion poll. Regardless, even if the Russians pull back and Viktor Yanukovych doesn't get back into power, it doesn't mean everything will be hunky-dory. As I understand it, the new government has different factions - some of them who are not so nice. Time will tell...

 

[Ponzio]

I don't want the money, Ponzio. But if you really feel like it, take the $100, and using your personal discretion, pick out people like mothers with kids who look like they might need a break and pick up the tab. Maybe at a BK or such. Not Starbucks, those folks have discretionary funds. Do it a few times and spread some joy. Might catch on a little.

Chu ... I agree with your sentiment about spreading some help, where you can, physically and monetarily. My wife and I already give more annually than I spend on audio equipment, easily. We both came from humble (read: poor) beginnings and realize you have to help people out to give them a leg up sometimes. It's funny you mentioned mothers with kids. My wife belongs to an organization where you pick as many battered women with children, that you can afford, and buy the kids Christmas presents and clothing for the mothers to go on interviews for jobs, while they're trying to sort out their lives. She's been doing this for over 22 years and we've actually gotten letters from some of these women who thanked us and told us what a difference it made in their lives. We figured we've been so fortunate, its the least we could do.

Be good.

 

[Chu Gai]

I grew up poor too, I just didn't know it until I got to school. Don't forget about the battered men, BTW! But I tell you, there's nothing like the look of someone whose tab you just paid. Or buying ice creams for the kids who flock to the truck and came up short. Better stop now or I'll ruin my rep for being a prick.

 

[lsiberian]

This is a very dangerous situation. I know we all hope it's saber rattling, but all it takes is one of these nutcases to actually follow through and we are in a major global mess.

 

[Rickster71]

This is a very dangerous situation. I know we all hope it's saber rattling, but all it takes is one of these nutcases to actually follow through and we are in a major global mess.

There were a couple of people that warned of this, back in 2008 and again in 2012.
They were mocked by the press.

 

[Chu Gai]

You're right. But we will never know what actions they would've or could've implemented that made a difference.

 

[mtrycrafts]

OK fair enough. I am sure you will also, using Wikipedia, make the same overview for the US just to represent a balanced view of the history.

If you are worried about an unbalanced view you are more than welcome to balance it out.

 

[Rickster71]

You're right. But we will never know what actions they would've or could've implemented that made a difference.

That part is true. However...
It's just very disappointing to see how so called 'journalists' behave.
Their job is to determine the accuracy of statements made by political types and fact find.
Media does something.... it's not journalism.

 

[GO-NAD!]

That part is true. However...
It's just very disappointing to see how so called 'journalists' behave.
Their job is to determine the accuracy of statements made by political types and fact find.
Media does something.... it's not journalism.

That's why I like to see different sources of news before coming to any conclusions about any particular situation.

 

[Rickster71]

That's why I like to see different sources of news before coming to any conclusions about any particular situation.

Welcome to a very small group of people pointing out, The Emperor Has No Clothes.

At the time it was difficult to find an alternate news source that wasn't mocking the two people that spoke out.
90% of the media jumped on.

 

[Adam]

That's why I like to see different sources of news before coming to any conclusions about any particular situation.

That takes too much time. I just read Rick's posts.

 

[Rickster71]

That takes too much time. I just read Rick's posts.

We're all doomed!