Lets build me a HTPC/Server!

[BoredSysAdmin]

BoredSysAdmin, don't fret too much. I do still have an older computer laying around that I may build into a FreeNAS box (technically it already is) just because. I need more memory for that one (I think its 1GB), and some HD's, but it runs FreeNAS off of a micro SD card no problem. I know its only 10/100 though, can I put in a PCI gigabit card? I just don't know how that works for drivers and such.


Sean

I don't fret about it dude, I try to take things easier nowadays

Re: Drivers support for FreeBSD, which what FreeNAS is built on, is pretty decent. But it depends on the nic vendor - big boys nics will probably be plug and play
Do Play with in and who knows - you just might like the remote interface and great management

 

[panteragstk]

I don't fret about it dude, I try to take things easier nowadays

Re: Drivers support for FreeBSD, which what FreeNAS is built on, is pretty decent. But it depends on the nic vendor - big boys nics will probably be plug and play
Do Play with in and who knows - you just might like the remote interface and great management

I put FreeNAS on a VM and was impressed with what I saw. If I were to build a server and already had all the drives I planned to use I would go with it in a heartbeat. I won't be doing that though. I buy new drives as needed and with FreeNAS (or ZFS in general) I'd lose quite a bit of capacity. If the UnRAID dev would implement dual parity and hot spare and maybe even snapshot capability it'd be a hard solution to beat.

 

[MidnightSensi2]

WD Green's aren't designed for RAID applications. Some people have luck, others don't. If they have a read/write error, the pause to recover can confuse the raid controller and have it think the drive failed.

The people that have had luck with them seem to just do simple mirrors (raid 1).

Interested to see what you build, I've been thinking I'm in need myself! Also, think I'm in need of some data spring cleaning. heh.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Speaking of drives: WD Red are generally more recommended for raids as they built to work 24/7

WD Green's aren't designed for RAID applications. Some people have luck, others don't. If they have a read/write error, the pause to recover can confuse the raid controller and have it think the drive failed.

The people that have had luck with them seem to just do simple mirrors (raid 1).

thanks you MS, I 100% agree on that point

 

[panteragstk]

thanks you MS, I 100% agree on that point

For sure. Green drives are notorious for killing RAID arrays. I think that's why they came out with the Red series in the first place, just so people wouldn't have to buy RE series drives for home servers.

Having said that, my UnRAID box has some green drives in it, but it isn't conventional RAID so the spinning down of the drives is a non-issue. In fact, UnRAID spins down drives no matter what type they are. You can turn it off if you want to.

If (when) I decide to build a ZFS server I wouldn't build it with anything less than a drive rated for 24/7 up-time.

 

[Rowdy S13]

I hate to burst bubbles, but this got bumped back for now. The money I had allocated for it had to get used other places as it usually goes. For now I got an additional 3TB green drive that I will fill with my movie collection. When I get around to building the server I will add it to that system.

The reason for the green drives is because with the FlexRaid I can spin them down when not in use. Seeing as how most of the time I they wont be doing anything, I don't see too much of a problem with them. Also I will have dual parity, so if they prove to be complete POS's in the future, I could afford to loose two at at time and not have any problems.

Hopefully I can start piecing this together soon though. I was hoping to go out and buy it all at once, but **** happens. I will keep you guys up to speed with how it all progresses. Thanks for all of the help!


Sean

 

[MidnightSensi2]

thanks you MS, I 100% agree on that point

Whoops, missed you said that.

...

My bit: Use the simplest method possible.

Right now I have a pair of really old servers running OpenBSD and mirrored using rsync and CAARP. It's perfect for my purposes. At most three people are using the network at any time, so, not much load. If there is a hardware failure, just goes to the next server. RAID controllers go out too.

Web servers I switched to Samsung SSD drives last year and removed the RAID controllers (slowed down access times), and redundancy is done through clustering as well. Mail servers are SATA 7,200rpm drives RAID10 (also clustered and mirrored)... but, loosing someones e-mail they'd probably shoot me. hehe.

I say that to say this: I like cool gear too, but, for what your trying to accomplish - don't overthink it. And save the licensing costs! Use something free and standards based.

 

[Rowdy S13]

Bringing this back from the dead! Now that I finally have the house, and I am starting on the HT its time to build the server I always wanted First lets start by clarifying what I am trying to do with this box. This computer will serve as both a "server" for holding my movie collection, and a network attached backup for my photos (I have ~4TB currently) and other important files. Keep in mind that this is just another backup for the photos and files, and is not intended to serve as 100% fail safe for those. This is also going to serve as my HTPC running WMC for OTA TV and DVR capabilities. I will stream the PLEX media through a ROKU 3 at each display since you cant really have the PLEX server, and the PLEX player run on the same machine. Right now my main computer is acting as the PLEX server, and it has worked great using the ROKU as the player.

So, as you can tell this machine is going to be Windows based. Windows 7 Professional 64bit to be precise, and will also run Flex Raid with a single parity drive. The reason for the single parity drive is that the MB I am looking at has only 6 SATA ports. I will use one for the SSD that has the operating system on it, and 1 for the parity drive leaving 4 ports open. That would give me a maximum of 16TB of space (not accounting for any loss) which is what I would like to have. I figured a while back that I currently need close to 10TB, so if I went with 2 parity drives that cuts me down to a max of 12TB which is a LOT, but not as much room to expand as I would like.

Lets talk hardware shall we (this is my favorite part)

Case: Fractal Design NODE-804
Motherboard: Asus H87M-Plus
CPU: Intel Pentium G3430 (dual core 3.3GHz Haswell)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws 8GB (2x4GB DDR3 1600)
SSD: Mushkin Enhanced 120GB
Power supply: SeaSonic 520W
Parity drive: Western Digital 4TB RED

I also currently have 1 Western Digital 3TB Green drive that has all of my DVD's ripped to it. I am not sure if I want to use Green or Red drives for the array since I can spin them down with FlexRaid. I am also not 100% sure on the memory if I am honest. Last thing to note, when I was making up the above list (getting links) I noticed that they now have 5 and 6TB drives! Seem a bit out of my price range, but I could change the set up later to be all 6TB drives with dual parity

OK that is all I have for now, lets tear it apart and tell me how wrong all of my selections are As always thanks in advance for any advice.



Sean

 

[Rowdy S13]

OK, not everyone all at once!

Sean

 

[Matt34]

Buy a drobo 5N, put your exisiting drives in it and get a 128-256GB mSata SSD to boost tranfers. Has a Plex app built in as well.

http://www.drobo.com/how-it-works/

 

[Rowdy S13]

I started with looking at a Drobo many moons ago. For starters the 5N doesn't have the space I need, well it does with single disc redundancy but barely. Second is, it is only storage which is most of what I am looking for, but not only. Putting together a computer gains me media center, a DVR, and various other programs. A Drobo isn't completely out of the question, but I am not sure its the right option for me right now.


Sean

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Yeah, no need to spend so much on few components :
Love the case - worth every penny, but imo I would swap mobo to asrock/gigabyte, memory to value Kingston or similar and while I love seasonic psus, cheaper FSP or Antec would be fine. No need for platinum. Gold is almost identical and even bronze is not terrible.

Im also not big fan of off the shelf nas boxes. They are often overpriced, underpowered and limited in functionality.
Of course they are typically easier to setup and run.

You seem pretty technical, so why not mythtv box. You don't need win7 wmc for encrypted ocur tuner support. Ota are not encrypted.

 

[Rowdy S13]

The mobo isn't much cheaper that I have seen. Any of the H87 boards are $90-100, and if we are talking $10 for ASUS (which I have had great luck with) then Ill just spring for it. The only ones cheaper (on newegg anyway) are brands I havent heard of, or they are open box/refurb. BUT, I am open to suggestions if you know of any! I have also had great luck in the past with Gigabit mobos.

Memory is the one area I knew I was over doing it. I guess the real question is how fast and how much do I really need? I am sure I can look at Kingston, or Corsair value select, or some others that are cheaper.

Last up the power supply. I came to that one by picking a Certified Haswell support, Fully Modular, and 500-599 watts, that is the only one that comes up. I know this because I just did it again I don't fully understand the Haswell deal, but I know that not all PSU's can handle them. I think its a matter of regulating the voltage that low? Anyway, I don't know much about it so I am again fully open to input.

I will have to look into MythTV more. I have seen it mentioned in my searching, but never looked into it at all. Thank you for the input so far!



Sean

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

My 2c for mobo: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157512
With RAM, you're know on right track.
PSU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371033
I have 6 2tb (WD AV-GP - almost same as RED) HDs on same PSU and 0 issues.
No need for so much power. WD RED are slower drives - think Green slow, but designed to work 24/7 in array of disk. Their maximum power usage is under 5w per hd. Do the math. Add another 100W or so for cpu/memory/mobo. Another 3-4W for SSD. what do you get? A far cry from 500-600W.

Also this might help you with selecting PSU:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/power-supply-psu-brands,3762.html

Hint - MOST PSU brands are just that - brands - Actual PSU are made by only a very few companies.

my DIY Nas build photos:
https://plus.google.com/photos/111982341744839796543/albums/5856810032319966337?authkey=CM7Y2Mqc17_aHg

I boot (ubuntu server) from USB 3 card reader and a very fast SD card

 

[Rowdy S13]

Well the time to buy and build is nearly upon us! I have taken your thoughts into consideration, as well as thorough scouring of the interwebs and come up with this "final" list of components.

Case: Fractal Node 304
Power Supply: Antec EarthWatts Green 380W
Motherboard: Asus H87M-E
CPU: Intel i3 4130 Haswell (Dual core 3.4GHz)
Memory: G.Skill 8GB (DDR3 1600 4 x 2GB)
SSD: Mushkin Enhanced 120GB
Parity drive: Western Digital 4TB Green
Storage drive 1: Western Digital 3TB Green (Existing)
Storage drive 2: Western Digital 4TB Green
Tuner: SiliconDust HD Home Run Extend-2
Operating System: Windows 7 Pro (64bit)
RAID software: FlexRAID RAID-F pooling and protection

So, just a few changes from the list I posted a few weeks ago. Starting with the case, I really like the small "cube" type case but the Node 804 was more than I needed. I do LOVE the 804 though, and I may build one later on, but for now I figure the 304 will do everything I need and cost about half as much. I went with the suggested power supply after a bit of research on my own. I actually had picked that same power supply MONTHS ago (looking at other saved wishlist on newegg), but its really a no brainer for the price. I would have liked a modular power supply, but for $45 I cant complain. The motherboard was something I went around and around on. The only real reason I am going with this one over the suggested one is that its in stock. CPU I stepped up a bit just to have a more current/efficient processor. Plus the built in video processing is better which is what this is all about! Memory was another one I kind of went around on. This seems to be the cheapest memory that I would use that is DDR3 1600. I know I don't need 8GB, but I will probably get two sets anyway. After that its pretty standard stuff I think.

I am debating if I should order it all now, or wait a bit. No real reason to wait other than possibly cheaper components. I would like to hear what you guys think of the current configuration of parts though



Sean

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Your tuner includes a hardware h.264 compression so the heaviest load should be done by tuner. the rest is simply writing/reading data stream does not require much in a way of processing. But then again it's only $20 extra for i3. The QuickSync Intel tech - may or may not be useful to you, heavily depends on software support. It would not occur automatically.

I highly disapprove your choice of green drives - do switch to HDs below. They are faster and will no go sleep unexpectedly.
New cheap mobo altermatve: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128672
Memory: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820144614
hdd: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822178338&cm_re=4tb_hdd-_-22-178-338-_-Product

 

[Rowdy S13]

Well that is good to know I am not exactly an expert on turners, I have had them in the past but on hard core gaming rigs. If there was a bigger load for the CPU, I would have never noticed since I had so much power available. I agree the i3 may be a bit more than I need, but for the money I am OK with it.

I figured I would hear about the drives. I have had good luck so far with my one 3TB green drive. I have seen good and bad about every drive there is. We could debate HDD's to no end I am sure. I will take into consideration the drives you suggested. They are the same cost (or cheaper) so I can't argue money. One thing I like about the green drives is that they put out less heat since they spin slower. This is especially desirable since I am building such a small case.

Motherboard: I like it EXCEPT that it has 4 6Gb/s ports and 2 3Gb/s ports as opposed to 6 6Gb/s like the other boards. I can only find this board that is cheaper, but still has 7.1 audio and 6 6Gb/s ports.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157525

But for $8 less, Id probably rather stay with the Asus board since I have had great luck with Asus product.

Good find on the memory! I have asked this question (probably not here) before, but which is faster 2 sticks for 4 sticks? Assuming the same total amount of memory, and they are all the same speed. I doubt the speed difference will even come into play in real world use of this machine, just curious. For now that memory has made the cut


Thanks,
Sean

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Sean, as long as its dual channel its as good as it gets. You not getting any advantage going with 4 sticks.
As for sata 6 vs sata 3. Honestly it doesn't matter much for hard drives. Sata 3gbs is limited to about 300MBytes/sec. Best barely reach 200 on sequential reads and much worse with random.

7.1 audio doesn't matter much. Most likely you would want to bitsteam anyway

 

[Rowdy S13]

Thats kind of what I thought on the memory.

On the SATA speed, its a mental thing probably. I want to know that they are all 6Gb/s

So the board being able to do 5.1 or 7.1 doesnt matter when bit streaming?


Sean

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Yes. Thats correct.