BMX on Remotes

[Alex2507]

There is no excuse that has ever been said (ever) which justifies not using the quality audio which is in place other than it being overly complex to use.

In which case, you need a good remote. A REALLY good remote.

When ever I ask for a product recommendation, I feel like I'm on the hook financially to get the product. So I'm a little afraid to ask what a REALLY good remote is.

First, let me get an opinion on the URC MX-350. Is that good enough? I have one already but stopped using it with the 7.2 home theater set up. It's getting used with a 2.2 music set up. I would like to stick with that model.

The living room 7.2 HT set up is basically 2 systems. One is the cable STB which has an HDMI cable going straight to the TV. The girl actually prefers to use the TV speakers for 'her' shows (GH, Dr. Phil and a series of other crap I won't watch).

Here is my excuse for allowing that. Those shows are 95% dialog and the TV speakers are good enough at low spl's. The commercials are much louder but through the TV speakers it is not as annoying due to the lack of bass and what I imagine to be some sort of compression whether it be power or thermal. Using the TV speakers is an advantage in a condo setting. I'm good with letting the girl use the STB remote to navigate the Verizon TV Guide, DVR and TV volume and on/off controls.



The other system in play there is the BR player and rec'r which has another HDMI cable going to the TV. There's an ADS EQ in the subwoofer chain that allows me to adjust the LFE on the fly. If there's something I want to watch and listen to from the STB, I have digital audio going to the rec'r and can switch to that source for the rec'r.

I haven't tried to use the macro settings on the MX-350 but see like a ton of steps in trying to make it switch the input sources on the TV from HDMI 1 to HDMI 2 (STB to rec'r). So ... it seems to me that another MX-350 would easily handle the 4 devices in the other system.Should that remote be deemed good enough or maybe even REALLY good I might like to get an RF base station with it to avoid all that pointing.

A possible glitch is that my BR player is analog multi channel output. In order to activate that on the rec'r (Yammy 663) I have to press an AMP button and then the MULTI-CH IN button after selecting DVD as the source. I've briefly fiddled with the rec'r menu to have the multi ch in thing be a default but I haven't quite got it to do that automatically.

I'm considering using DRC to level out the play back volume ... I could do that through the STB and/or through the rec'r. A lot of movies have a huge dynamic range that isn't at all condo friendly but I don't like the idea of having music (even the music in movies) messed with. That's a different topic though and potentially a different stumbling block gear wise because of the analog audio connections from the BR player to the rec'r.

Anyway this thread for now is basically about what a REALLY good remote is.

 

[Ponzio]

Looking forward to the responses since I've got an old Yamaha RX-V1070 AVR in my bedroom and the remote volume control buttons wore out; everything else works fine. I tried using a Logitech Harmony H659 to no avail. The only dam thing that did was control the power button. Biggest waste of $80 in my life. It works but the buttons are not very responsive and has a tight signal window. I originally purchased it because Princes Mawa complained about the cornucopia of remotes, just to watch TV. This is the same woman who has an IQ of 132. It has nothing to do with IQ, I know. As George Carlin once said, "you gotta wanna" learn something, and she obviously does not. She's a pistol! She rejected the Harmony after 2 days use, claiming it was "too confusing". So she went back to the 2 remote method (TV & DVR). Don't, and I mean don't, bring up watching a DVD with the HT. She goes into full-blown banshee mode ... all this fancy equipment, all this money spent, remotes all over the house ... with no ETA back to sanity.

 

[sawzalot]

1.So I'm a little afraid

2.The girl actually prefers to use the TV speakers for 'her' shows (GH, Dr. Phil and a series of other crap I won't watch).

3.Here is my excuse for allowing that.


4.Anyway this thread for now is basically about what a REALLY good remote is.

1.Me Too !
2.I am in the same boat !
3.No excuse needed, we do what we must do !
4.My thread was basically about HDMI pass thru !

 

[j_garcia]

There is no good remote I've not found one that does everything I wanted out of the box, so as long as it is programmable, you shouldn't have an issue. I still have my fancy Marantz rebranded Pronto that was like $500 when it came out (because I don't use it...). Sure it works and does practically everything, but it eats batteries like crazy if using the backlight, takes a long time to setup, and the touchscreen is not 100% responsive all the time. My URC R50 was $50 and does the same things and is a lot easier to setup because there are LESS things to configure. I haven't tried the more expensive Harmonys but I was not impressed with the one I bought for my parents, the 860 or something like that. The first time the batteries died, they stopped using it.

 

[adk highlander]

Buy a URC MX-780 and give me a list of components and what you want it to do. I'll send you the config file and you will be all set.

I spent quite a bit of money on remotes and at first thought they were for me. Then I realized they are for my wife and family so I never get bugged about how to do this or that. There were some initial growing pains but now I never get a call that something is not working.

It can be set up to run multiple systems and if you get a base station it can all be done via RF.

 

[crossedover]

Buy a URC MX-780 and give me a list of components and what you want it to do. I'll send you the config file and you will be all set.
It can be set up to run multiple systems and if you get a base station it can all be done via RF.

Or an MX-850, old style. easy feel and layout similar to the 350 and a little less expensive.

 

[adk highlander]

Or an MX-850, old style. easy feel and layout similar to the 350 and a little less expensive.

True but I don't like the editor for the 850 and it has been a few years. I can do CCP programming in a couple of hours.

 

[Hi Ho]

My favorite is the URC MX-890. The upper end URC remotes are just so flexible and you can do just about anything with the programming. IF/ELSE programming adds a lot to the functionality of a complex system. I also love the charging base. I cannot stand programming the MX-350. It is such a pain in the *** and it takes much longer to do simple tasks than it does using CCP on a PC.

I'm still using an MX-980 and I love it. I wouldn't touch a Harmony. They are much too simplified to be useful IMO.

 

[crossedover]

True but I don't like the editor for the 850 and it has bee a few years. I can do CCP programming in a couple of hours.

good thing though is the 850 can be added to an upgraded system after. CCP is is nice but for a single, simple setup the older 850 (while programming is different) might be more fruitful. Crestron integrates the 850 well into its native language, allowing a simpled remote structure to work well. I like whole home solutions with URC, and ccp made programing simpler.

 

[BMXTRIX]

If we're offering favors...

Buy a used MX-850 on eBay and then buy a Crestron MC2W and give me a list of your gear and I can get it programmed in a couple of hours for a basic single room setup.



A really good remote is one that works 99.9% of the time. You hit a button, and it responds as expected. The URC lineup is generally very well regarded and tends to be better than the Harmony lineup. But, the Harmony lineup allows you to program it yourself and make changes yourself. This is really good for end users who don't want to pay professional installer rates.

Obviously since I can program Crestron, I work with Crestron. But, with used gear out there on eBay for very low cost, the actual price tag to get into Crestron is extremely low these days. For my own stuff, I don't buy new, but on eBay. I have to sell at a high enough price to cover potential issues and guarantee reliability for my client... and I rarely get away with a RF only unit like the aforelinked MC2W, but for just a few hundred dollars you can get a RF and Ethernet enabled system. Then it's all about the programming time and skill.

But, I could buy a complete MX-850 RF controlled Crestron system for well under $200 and deliver near 100% reliability in under two hours (depending on components) of programming.

I have yet to hear of that level of reliability from Harmony or even URC. The hard part is often that people haven't run the IR wires to everything they needed to or serial control cables.

I do remember my wife once asking "How does the system know to switch between the speakers built into the TV and the good speakers?"
I smiled... The TV was a Pioneer display without any speakers.
A good remote makes it completely transparent to use the good stuff all the time.

Oh - and always remember my bold as heck statements from time to time are still just my opinions. Take them or leave them, I don't have to live in anyone else's situation. So my loud and direct statements I am totally fine when people ignore completely if they so choose!

 

[ARES24]

I am also in the market for a new remote system. I have a Harmony 510 that works wonderfully when it can 'see' all of the devices. However, I have moved my equipment to a closet (except the tv of course) I have a cmple IR repeater that transmits fairly well. (original remotes work 98%) Unfortunately the harmony isn't so reliable, or reliable at all....

My frustration level is driving me to go buy another remote yesterday but snap decision not always the best.

I have been thinking that I would like to have the remote control the lights aswell. The lights include two standard 110 circuits, on 3-way circuit and two RGB LED light strips (both run identically)

What am I getting myself into with this? Both logistically and financially

 

[Alex2507]

Buy a URC MX-780 and give me a list of components and what you want it to do. I'll send you the config file and you will be all set. ... get a base station ...

Hmmm ... tempting.

Buy a used MX-850 on eBay and then buy a Crestron MC2W and give me a list of your gear and I can get it programmed in a couple of hours for a basic single room setup.

I could buy a complete MX-850 RF controlled Crestron system for well under $200

Sold to the lowest bidder!

Oh - and always remember my bold as heck statements from time to time are still just my opinions. Take them or leave them, I don't have to live in anyone else's situation. So my loud and direct statements I am totally fine when people ignore completely if they so choose!

I don't generally ignore people who are in the business of being right.

The hard turn for me is ditching IR completely. When those IR wires get put in, the old remotes won't be able to get a signal in edge wise, right? Anyway I covered this with the girl. I'm watching eBay for an 850 and one of those Crestron units. BTW, where do I get those IR wires?

Right now I'm using a Yamaha RX-V663 as a pre-pro. What happens when I finally get the rec'r I've been hankering for? Is reprogramming the remote a cost I just need to factor into that upgrade? That's down the road a ways so for right now I'll just stick to the matter at hand.

 

[Alex2507]

There's a Crestron ML500 remote bundled with a Crestron MC2W for $140. Is that remote worth while or should I hone in on n MC2W with a bid starting at $100 bucks and keep looking/waiting for an MX-350?

Those two listings for the MC2Ws are the only cheap ones with the power supplies and antennas.

 

[BMXTRIX]

There are a number of MC2W units on eBay. Spending more than $40 is to much, but they do need a 24v power supply. Most sold don't include one, so you have to buy them after the fact, or do some searching for a 3rd party one.

crestron mc2w | eBay

Something like this is cool because it includes a remote, processor, and power supply:
Nice Crestron MC2W Control Processor ML500 Remote | eBay

The ML500 is the Crestron badged MX700 remote. The Crestron ML600 is the rebadged MX-850 remote.

You can pick up IR emitters on eBay as well. Something like this will give you five of them:
5X Single IR Emitter Mini Stick on Infrared Blink Eye Cable Lot Pack | eBay

I'm not sure how the cheaper ones work if you have to double them up on a single output. I often use Xantech or similar higher level emitters, but I've used the cheap ones as well. You cut the 1/8" mono connection off, strip the wire back, and put the two conductors into signal and ground on the back of the Crestron unit. The real thing is looking to ensure that there is two wires going into the 1/8" connection. Some have a single jacket with two micro wires inside which are nearly impossible to properly strip back.

These are the good ones:
4 Xantech IR Emitter | eBay

Oh, and the IR emitter uses a IR clear plastic piece with the emitter inside. Your remotes will continue to work just fine after they are put in place.

 

[Alex2507]

Something like this is cool because it includes a remote, processor, and power supply:
Nice Crestron MC2W Control Processor ML500 Remote | eBay

That's the very one I asked about! I just used the buy it now thing. It's mine.

The ML500 is the Crestron badged MX700 remote. The Crestron ML600 is the rebadged MX-850 remote.

Okay, the above listing includes ML500 remote and it's on the way. If need be I've got a couple of other auctions I'm watching for an ML600 and an MX-850. Pretty soon I'm going to be the URC version of the crazy cat lady. That ML600 says it's new in the box and the auction is over in 6 days. The auction for the MX-850 ends tomorrow. I'm okay with having a redundant/spare remote. Let me know what it is that I should be doing here.

You can pick up IR emitters on eBay as well.
These are the good ones:
4 Xantech IR Emitter | eBay

I ordered those too.

Oh, and the IR emitter uses a IR clear plastic piece with the emitter inside. Your remotes will continue to work just fine after they are put in place.

That's cool. I'll still just go with your recommendation about eliminating the TV speakers and force the use of the RX-V663. Thanks for all the help so far.

 

[BMXTRIX]

You aren't going to like the up/down/left/right on the ML500/MX700 remote. Fortunately, if you get a MX-850/ML-600 you can actually swap the buttons out. I just did this on one of my old MX850 remotes which was broken. Put the board from a ML500 into the case of the MX850 and it works great and the better buttons of the MX850 are a definite plus. In fact, I think that's why they went from the MX700 to the MX850 and the MX850 has stuck around so long. It's the most ergonomic remote I've ever used.

Ares stepped in with a question about lighting.

Lights are a bit of a toughie. The reason they are tough is because they aren't line of sight for most rooms, they often are two-way or three-way, and most people don't have a control wire at their lights, and don't have the ability to get one there.

My situation has been no different, so I put in Insteon. I'm not convinced they are the best solution, but I went with them and I've managed to get them working with my setup. I had to struggle with their non-intuitive software to setup lighting scenes, and I did get the Crestron controller working with it through a USB interface. Not sure, but I imagine I could have gotten it working with the IP interface as well, but I haven't tried that and that won't work with the MC2W since it doesn't have IP on it. (MC2e/CP2e/etc. would have IP)

It certainly works, and it has worked well so far in my home.

The problem with true automated systems is there is so much you can do, but you really need to be an expert on almost everything. Like, a HVAC guy can install a HVAC system, but will know nothing about controllable thermostats. Or a access control guy may know there are key-fobs and a iPhone app, but not about third party controls or if there is an API available for integration. The list goes on with security, phone systems, shades, etc. So, it becomes a hobby unto itself to get some of this stuff working.

 

[ARES24]

All hobbies start with interest and enthusiasm! I do have access to the switch boxes to add signal wires if need be. (the light boxes too but that would be 15 points instead of 2) Besides I think my wife would be happy that I take on a bit of a hobby that doesn't take up room (building speakers) or somewhat dismantle rooms (installing indirect lighting)

I will also talk to the electrician I use for most of my clients and ask him if he has any suggestions on what to use and what is available up here.

 

[crossedover]

All hobbies start with interest and enthusiasm! I do have access to the switch boxes to add signal wires if need be. (the light boxes too but that would be 15 points instead of 2) Besides I think my wife would be happy that I take on a bit of a hobby that doesn't take up room (building speakers) or somewhat dismantle rooms (installing indirect lighting)

I will also talk to the electrician I use for most of my clients and ask him if he has any suggestions on what to use and what is available up here.

Since Cat5 is cheap and if you can easily run it to each wall plate, thats what Id do. IR, triggers, audio, video, etc Cat5 makes cabling decisions easy . Lights and dimmer switches can be done RF as BMX noted.

 

[BMXTRIX]

I don't really think that running wire to light switches makes all that much sense, but programming lighting is time consuming (at the very least) as each switch must be uniquely programmed and identified. Groupings which need to be programmed together as scenes must be setup individually, and often there is the requirement for a piece of software from the lighting manufacturer to setup the lighting, and then the control system must be programmed to recall those scenes exactly.

For a simple room, the Lutron Grafik Eye is a solid product, and Lutron in general with their RadioRA is a solid product, but certainly carries a premium price tag.

I will say that while working with Insteon has been cumbersome, they have actually worked very well. Dimming, scene recall, etc. all works nicely.

 

[STRONGBADF1]

I might just throw my URC RF20 against the wall if I can't get it to work without me having to spend a couple of hours programing it... It won't even adjust volume correctly. Someone explain to me again why you can just put your model number into Harmony's data base and everything works but the rest of the remote world has to be difficult and make you go through lists of numbers and hope the one you think works works all the functions and not just half of them. It's not like my Panny TV and Blu-Ray player, Sony receiver and Verizon (Motorola) Fios box aren't common...