First-timer looking for advice on what to buy . . .

[jackieck]

All right, I read all those articles. I understood at least half. Thanks for the tip, though; I will definitely stop worrying about distortion. The more I look at receivers, the more I lean towards the Denon 1713 (or the 1913 if I decide that upconversion or 7.1 is important to me). Now it's time to look at speakers!

 

[psbfan9]

Now it's time to look at speakers!

These will into your budget.

Cinema 5 Compact Home Theater System

Or, if you want to go 7.1;

Cinema 7 Compact Home Theater System

 

[jackieck]

Yeah, I looked at those, but I like what Pyrro said about having a speaker's frequency go as low as 60 Hz. More of a range sounds like a good thing in general. I'm in the process of looking through Amazon at speakers, and I'm saving ones that have a wider frequency range and are under $200 for a pair. I looked at a sub that BoredSysAdmin recommended, and I like the "sound" of it (I haven't actually listened to anything yet). It's the JBL ES250PB. So then I looked at JBL's recommendations for matching speakers, and I like what I see. I'm looking at all kinds of brands, but there's something about JBL that's drawing my attention more than others.

One spec I don't understand is sensitivity. What's that all about? I think one of the articles zieglj01 pointed me towards talked about it, but it was late and I didn't understand some stuff. Can anyone put it as simply as possible for me?

 

[zieglj01]

In general the higher the sensitivity, the easier it is to drive the speaker - however,
impedance will also play a part.

The Cambridge S30 will play down to 60 hz - and has nice bass - and a nice cohesive
sound signature.

My JBL speaker recommendation, would jump your budget

The JBL sub would be your call.

 

[Pyrrho]

Yeah, I looked at those, but I like what Pyrro said about having a speaker's frequency go as low as 60 Hz. More of a range sounds like a good thing in general. I'm in the process of looking through Amazon at speakers, and I'm saving ones that have a wider frequency range and are under $200 for a pair. I looked at a sub that BoredSysAdmin recommended, and I like the "sound" of it (I haven't actually listened to anything yet). It's the JBL ES250PB. So then I looked at JBL's recommendations for matching speakers, and I like what I see. I'm looking at all kinds of brands, but there's something about JBL that's drawing my attention more than others.

You should go listen to some speakers. How they look online is not going to tell you how they sound. I know, the local selection will be limited, and this will take time and trouble on your part. But it is the only way to get a good idea of what is possible and what kinds of things you like.

One spec I don't understand is sensitivity. What's that all about? I think one of the articles zieglj01 pointed me towards talked about it, but it was late and I didn't understand some stuff. Can anyone put it as simply as possible for me?

Sensitivity tells you how much power is needed for a given output level. Typically, though not always, it is measured with 1 watt at 1 meter. So a speaker that produces 90dB @ 1 W @ 1 M will be 2dB louder with a given amount of power than a speaker that produces 88dB @ 1 W @ 1 M. That is, up to the point when you reach the upper limits of the speaker. (By the way, both of those volumes are pretty loud; look at the chart here.)

This has absolutely nothing to do with sound quality; it is only a measure of how loud it will be with a set amount of power. Small differences on this are trivial, and in most cases, you should ignore it. If, however, you are wanting to recreate the loudest Who concert ever, at the actual volume, then you would want to look for very sensitive speakers (a high number for this rating). For sane listening volumes in a normal home environment, you can pretty well ignore this.

As it turns out, many professional speakers have very high sensitivity, which is good in a large auditorium, as they need to produce a lot of sound to fill an auditorium. Home speakers often sacrifice sensitivity for better quality, and many of the finest sounding speakers are of low sensitivity. However, being a lower sensitivity does NOT tell you that it will sound better, so, again, you probably want to ignore this specification.

 

[jackieck]

Thanks again, Pyrrho. I was actually already planning on listening to speakers later today. But I feel better looking at some online and getting a feel for different brands and what they offer; that way I know what to listen to first. Those Cambridge speakers keep getting recommended to me, but I have a feeling I won't find those at Best Buy. And then there's my paranoia that the people in stores alter settings to make a more expensive product sound better than a less expensive but otherwise equal product. I'll just have to pay attention to that stuff while I'm there. And I think I'll make a little list of the speakers I've found so far that intrigue me and bring that with me.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

So then I looked at JBL's recommendations for matching speakers, and I like what I see. I'm looking at all kinds of brands, but there's something about JBL that's drawing my attention more than others.

You don't need to match sub and speakers. The only speakers which must match are left/center/right.
That is why I recommended Cambridge s30/s50 on front AND the JBL sub - together - same system...

btw: here is a decent x1000 vs 1713 review: Amazon.com: Customer Reviews: Denon AVR-X1000 5.1-Channel Networking Home Theater AV Receiver with AirPlay

 

[zieglj01]

But I feel better looking at some online and getting a feel for different brands and what they offer; that way I know what to listen to first.

Thinking and logic, plus perception and paranoia > does not speak/guarantee sound quality.

Enjoy the adventure ride.

 

[jackieck]

Well, Best Buy was pretty bare bones when it came to brands--no BIC or JBL, and I was hoping to hear those. They had Polk and Klipsch and Pioneer--stuff like that. We listened to what they had and determined that Klipsch was our favorite. After looking around online, I found a review on TopTenReviews.com for the Klipsch B-20. It's their number one pick for bookshelf speakers, and after looking at the specs, I can see why. At $199 for a pair, it fits in our budget pretty well. I like the idea of bookshelf speakers because I'll be able to get them out of the way of the kids, but I like the idea of floorstanding speakers because of the added power. The Klipsch F-20 seems pretty freakin' sweet, and it really isn't that expensive for a floorstanding speaker.

So let's say I went with the F-20s and got a pair of B-20s for the rear speakers (I realize they don't have to match--I just like them). I'm then left trying to find a Klipsch center speaker that'll complement those awesome fronts. The RC-52 II would probably work great, but it's also REALLY expensive. There's the C-20 that's more in our price range, but the frequency range isn't as great. So my question is, if we have those F-20s (which go all the way down to 38Hz), would we need our center speaker to handle low frequencies as well? Or would the F-20s handle that just fine on their own? I do of course plan on getting a subwoofer, but that might have to wait if we splurge on these other speakers.

The other option is to just use four of the bookshelf speakers (the B-20s) and some sort of center speaker (probably the C-20).

So what do you guys think of Klipsch? I certainly liked the sound of the B-15s in Best Buy, and I do feel more comfortable buying a brand I've listened to. We unfortunately live in a smallish city and don't have any specialized audio stores, so Best Buy is pretty much all we have to work with. I've heard numerous times that Klipsch (I really hate spelling that word) is better for movies than music, and that's fine for us--movies and TV is what we'll be using these speakers for the most.

Here are the links to all the stuff I just mentioned:
Klipsch F-20: Amazon.com: Klipsch Synergy F-20 Premium Dual 6.5-Inch Floor-Standing Speaker: Electronics
Klipsch B-20: Amazon.com: Klipsch Synergy B-20 Premium 5.25-Inch Bookshelf Speakers (Pair): Electronics
Klipsch C-20: Amazon.com: Klipsch Synergy C-20 Premium Dual 5.25-Inch Center-Channel Speaker: Electronics
Klipsch RC-52 II: Amazon.com: Klipsch RC-52 II Center Speaker - Black - Each: Electronics

Thanks a lot for any feedback you can give!

 

[AVMike]

I have not listened to the Synergy 20 series yet but I have listened to the Pioneer Andrew Jones system and I was pretty impressed. Impressed enough that I bought a pair of the bookshelves. Even the subwoofer sounded pretty good. Try and listen to the whole system if you can. Those bookshelves have high reviews from top reviewers.

 

[AVMike]

oh and zieglj01 is the one who informed me about my sub and sat speakers. Glad I took his suggestion as I was on a strict budget.

 

[zieglj01]

Well, Best Buy was pretty bare bones when it came to brands--no BIC or JBL, and I was hoping to hear those. They had Polk and Klipsch and Pioneer--stuff like that. We listened to what they had and determined that Klipsch was our favorite. After looking around online, I found a review on TopTenReviews.com for the Klipsch B-20. It's their number one pick for bookshelf speakers, and after looking at the specs, I can see why. At $199 for a pair, it fits in our budget pretty well. I like the idea of bookshelf speakers because I'll be able to get them out of the way of the kids, but I like the idea of floorstanding speakers because of the added power. The Klipsch F-20 seems pretty freakin' sweet, and it really isn't that expensive for a floorstanding speaker.

Thanks a lot for any feedback you can give!

The top 10 reviews is something to read - if one is looking for some humor.
They do not really listen to the speakers - they are mainly looking at the
speaker marketing specs.

The Klipsch B20 did manage a -3db point of 82 hz when measured.

The Klipsch Synergy speakers and the made for Best Buy Klipsch speakers,
I could not live with long term - and I have been there/owned.

However, all that matters is that you like them.

For me, I would prefer bookshelf speakers - so, one could buy a subwoofer
for mainly movies and TV.

Also, match the front with the series center channel.

Enjoy the adventure.

 

[jackieck]

I've read enough on this site to see that you either love Klipsch or you don't. Out of the speakers we listened to, we really liked them, so I'm guessing we're more horn-speaker people. Everywhere I look, I see awesome reviews for the B-20s and the F-20s; it seems like ordinary people love them, and we are pretty ordinary when it comes to the home theater stuff. So I'm pretty sure we're gonna go with Klipsch.

Right now, the F-20s are on sale on Newegg for $100 each after a $50 rebate each. After reading reviews on there and seeing really happy people who paid way more than that, I have a feeling I should jump on it right now. The B-20s are also on sale for $150 for a pair after a $50 rebate, and that's the best price I've seen by far as well.

Because of those sales, I'm leaning towards the two towers for the front and the bookshelf speakers for the back. So now I'm left to decide what center I can use. I would like to get the C-20 because of the price, but will that be okay with the better tower fronts? I'm thinking yes, but I just want to make sure.

I'm still thinking of what sub to use. The BIC F-12 is $200, which sounds pretty nice to me. Anything bad about that one?

I'll have to make sure the Denon 1713 is going to do those speakers justice. I want the AVR to last a long time; I wouldn't want to get the 1713 only to find out that I should have gotten an AVR more capable of 100 watts per channel.

So what do you guys think? Those sales are pretty awesome, right?

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

... but I think clarity is even more important. I definitely want low distortion. We have small kids, so we won't be blasting all our movies, but we want the option to do so. Most of the time, we'll be listening at relatively low levels. Our living room is about 22 feet long by 12 feet wide, and we want to utilize that length by putting the TV on a short wall and having a 7.1 (or 7.2) setup. We'd settle for a 5.1 if we had to, though.

I've read enough on this site to see that you either love Klipsch or you don't. Out of the speakers we listened to, we really liked them, so I'm guessing we're more horn-speaker people. Everywhere I look, I see awesome reviews for the B-20s and the F-20s; it seems like ordinary people love them, and we are pretty ordinary when it comes to the home theater stuff. So I'm pretty sure we're gonna go with Klipsch.

Right now, the F-20s are on sale on Newegg for $100 each after a $50 rebate each. After reading reviews on there and seeing really happy people who paid way more than that, I have a feeling I should jump on it right now. The B-20s are also on sale for $150 for a pair after a $50 rebate, and that's the best price I've seen by far as well.

Because of those sales, I'm leaning towards the two towers for the front and the bookshelf speakers for the back. So now I'm left to decide what center I can use. I would like to get the C-20 because of the price, but will that be okay with the better tower fronts? I'm thinking yes, but I just want to make sure.

I'm still thinking of what sub to use. The BIC F-12 is $200, which sounds pretty nice to me. Anything bad about that one?

I'll have to make sure the Denon 1713 is going to do those speakers justice. I want the AVR to last a long time; I wouldn't want to get the 1713 only to find out that I should have gotten an AVR more capable of 100 watts per channel.

So what do you guys think? Those sales are pretty awesome, right?

You asked for low-volume, height clarity system - this is what I recommended above.
That said, Klipsch speakers (especially the budget lines) have, for lack of better words - "exciting" sound but it will very often lead to long term listening fatigue. This is due pretty large variations in higher frequencies.

If you are trying to save every penny - see my link for Pioneer bookshelfs - on sale they go for 80/pr - get two pair, matching $90 center and you could even afford better sub

In regards for F-12 - another great example of cheap and "exciting" sound - it's fine of movie explosions, but terrible for music. JBL listed above would be more accurate.

In conclusion - it's your money and you are free to spend as you like, just expect me to approve these choices...

 

[zieglj01]

I'll have to make sure the Denon 1713 is going to do those speakers justice. I want the AVR to last a long time; I wouldn't want to get the 1713 only to find out that I should have gotten an AVR more capable of 100 watts per channel.

So what do you guys think? Those sales are pretty awesome, right?

You will have to go higher than 100 watts to move much pass the Denon 1713
You are over-thinking again > you did come here for advice.

I am not against horn speakers - I own the JBL Studio 5 bookshelf - and it has
no blaring horn sound >> and a lot of owners prefer them over some nice high
dollar speakers.

The budget and Reference Klipsch are a different sonic/sound character - that to
me, fall short in detail and definition and lack good bass quality. Also, there are
a lot of music tracks in Movies/TV

For me the Cambridge Audio speakers are a step above the Klipsch > and for the
Horn loaded speakers - I would take the HTD Level Three over the Klipsch.> How
ever, I will Take the Cambridge over the Level Three.

Still the JBL Studio 5 over all of them

However, it is you that counts - and your system will be better than some.

Now for a subwoofer - my choice is different, and will make some eyes roll.
It will not have the highest SPL, it will not hit the lowest notes - however,
it will not be sloppy, mushy or boomy - and is my preference over the budget
popular ones $300 down. A real head banger may be offended - however, still
92 db at around 25 hz >> Mordaunt Short Aviano 7
Mordaunt Short Aviano 7 10" 175 Watt Powered Subwoofer Rose | Accessories4less

However, with that said - the JBL sub is still a nice option

Good Luck with the adventure

 

[jackieck]

What sucks is that I can't listen to any of those brands in person, so if I bought the Cambridge, it would be completely on your word (and your ear). We listened to all the different brands Best Buy had to offer, and the Klipsch was the one that stood for us, and I believe it was the only horn speaker there. So I can probably deduce that we prefer the sound of a horn speaker. Because of that, I'm interested in your recommendation of the HTD Level Threes, but I have no way of trying them (and they're a bit pricey for us).

I have a feeling we're gonna have to just take a chance and get a Klipsch setup and just hope that it works for us. Oh how I wish we had a specialized audio store here . . .

 

[ImcLoud]

The only time I would go with something unheard is if the other option was Klipsch.... For HT, most prefer something "livable" where you can listen for hours with no fatigue, I do not see klipsch fitting that bill... IMO they are way to bright for use in a home, forget nearfield....

sorry to jump in here, with out reading the entire thread, but I would think real hard about purchasing klipsch for HT.. some love them , but IMO they are crazy {jk, lol}

 

[ImcLoud]

The only time I would go with something unheard is if the other option was Klipsch.... For HT, most prefer something "livable" where you can listen for hours with no fatigue, I do not see klipsch fitting that bill... IMO they are way to bright for use in a home, forget nearfield....

sorry to jump in here, with out reading the entire thread, but I would think real hard about purchasing klipsch for HT.. some love them , but IMO they are crazy {jk, lol}

OK, so I went back and read the first post...

$1000 is OK for a budget...
I would FOCUS on a good sub, you have a large room, and the sub is going to give you the most effect for your money....

But for $1000 I don't think you will find better than the 1st gen Andrew jones pioneer speakers... Under $300 for 2 front towers, 2 surrounds, and a center...
Pioneer SP-FS51-LR Pair Home Audio Speaker - Newegg.com
Pioneer SP-BS21-LR - Newegg.com
Pioneer SP-C21 Center Channel Speaker Single - Newegg.com

I wouldn't spend a lot of budget on the avr, its going to be the first thing to get outdated... $140
DENON AVR-1513 5.1ch Home Theater Receiver 3D ready | Accessories4less

that leaves around $600 for a sub which of course IMO would be the VTF2 hands down... But others like the rythmik lv12...
VTF-2 MK4 Subwoofer but the vtf2 is hard to beat....

That is about the best you are going to get for around $1000.... I don't know if anyone else already recommended this stuff but it would be how I went if I was looking for ht in your budget..... good luck...

 

[zieglj01]

What sucks is that I can't listen to any of those brands in person, so if I bought the Cambridge, it would be completely on your word (and your ear). We listened to all the different brands Best Buy had to offer, and the Klipsch was the one that stood for us, and I believe it was the only horn speaker there. So I can probably deduce that we prefer the sound of a horn speaker. Because of that, I'm interested in your recommendation of the HTD Level Threes, but I have no way of trying them (and they're a bit pricey for us).

I do not prefer the sound of a horn speaker - I prefer the sound of a good speaker.
I like a horn speaker, that is a good speaker - with no blaring/annoying offensive
sound. What I do recommend is subjective, as is for anyone else.

The HTD ribbon horn is nice and decent, with better overall sound quality compared
to Klipsch - and is not really offensive, or ear slapping. It will also have nice detail
and definition - the midrange is not perfect, however it is nice for the price.

HTD is having a 10% off sale till Feb 2 - the bookshelf and center will be $450 with
the sale. In most cases HTD will pay return shipping for 1st time buyers, if you do
not like or want to return.
HTD Level THREE Speakers

What you buy, or do is up to you - I have very little ego to bruise.

When you ask for advice, then we recommend - while I am not perfect, I am still a
nit picker - no one can guarantee the so-called perfect/right speaker for you. >>>
However, some of us have been doing this for a while.

I do not know what else to say - Your call

 

[Pyrrho]

What sucks is that I can't listen to any of those brands in person, so if I bought the Cambridge, it would be completely on your word (and your ear). We listened to all the different brands Best Buy had to offer, and the Klipsch was the one that stood for us, and I believe it was the only horn speaker there. So I can probably deduce that we prefer the sound of a horn speaker. Because of that, I'm interested in your recommendation of the HTD Level Threes, but I have no way of trying them (and they're a bit pricey for us).

I have a feeling we're gonna have to just take a chance and get a Klipsch setup and just hope that it works for us. Oh how I wish we had a specialized audio store here . . .

If you are a couple of hours drive away from a big city, you might be able to take a day trip to audition more gear. You could search online for audio dealerships in whatever that city might be, before you go, and make sure they are open on the day and time that you will be there.

Also, if you are unsure, that favors buying locally at a store like Best Buy, because of their return policy. If you buy online and regret it, most places are going to charge you for shipping, even if they will take it back (which they may not). Always check return policies before you buy anything from anyone; that will tell you how certain you need to be before your purchase.

Save all boxes and packing material until you are absolutely sure you don't want to return it. And if you have space in your attic for the boxes, keep them. They will be useful if you ever move, or ever need to take them in for a repair.

Also, take your time. Usually, better decisions are made when one is not rushed than when one is.

And remember, it is your money and your ears. We will not suffer if you make a mistake, and we will not have to listen to whatever you pick. So pick what makes you happy.


One more thing: When auditioning different speakers, try to forget about the deep bass. You are going to be using a subwoofer for that anyway, so what matters is how they are above the crossover point to the subwoofer, not how they are much below that.