First-timer looking for advice on what to buy . . .

J

jackieck

Enthusiast
Hello. My husband and I are upgrading to a 65-inch TV and would like to get an awesome surround sound system to go with it. I'm trying my best to research everything and learn all I can, but I am seriously confused by all the different elements I need to look for. I need some advice on what equipment would be best for us.

We of course want power (my husband is quite fixated on the number 1,000 when it comes to total wattage), but I think clarity is even more important. I definitely want low distortion. We have small kids, so we won't be blasting all our movies, but we want the option to do so. Most of the time, we'll be listening at relatively low levels. Our living room is about 22 feet long by 12 feet wide, and we want to utilize that length by putting the TV on a short wall and having a 7.1 (or 7.2) setup. We'd settle for a 5.1 if we had to, though.

Our budget is a teeny bit flexible, but we would like to stay under $1,000 for everything, especially since we have small kids and don't really have the luxury of buying luxury stuff. :) But I should mention that our current surround sound system (Sony STR-K790) is totally ancient and wimpy, so anything's going to be a luxury upgrade for us at this point.

At first we were looking at Onkyo's complete package on Amazon (HT-S5600), but after looking on here, I see that Onkyo isn't great for longevity, and we want this stuff to last a long time. Plus, I noticed that that particular package has more distortion than I'd like to deal with. So Onkyo doesn't seem to be the best choice. After reading through some forums, it seems like I should go with Yamaha or Denon.

I should mention that extra features aren't that important to us--we don't really keep music on our phones or anything. We need at least 4 HDMI inputs. I've seen some sweet-looking stuff on Amazon (like Yamaha's RX-V871BL for $500), but would I even have enough money for quality speakers if I bought something like that? I haven't even looked into what speakers to get yet. And what's all this preamp stuff mean? Can't I just get an AV receiver and some speakers? I seriously need some advice!
 
slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Warlord
Budget of $1000. Is that for the TV too? Or only the Receiver and speakers (plus cables, wires, etc). What about your source components (cable box, xbox, dvd, etc)?

Basically, a reciever is a pre/pro and power amp in one chassis, so receiver and speakers is what you will want here.

My advice is to not worry about 7.1, stick to 5.1.
 
J

jackieck

Enthusiast
The $1,000 is just for the receiver and speakers. We use a blu-ray player, an HD DirecTV box, and an Xbox. That's pretty much it. The desired fourth HDMI would be just in case we ever got something else.

Yes, I can see why sticking with 5.1 would be best, since that would be less speakers to have to buy, which would allow more money per speaker. I guess I just liked the idea of getting a second subwoofer someday if I got 7.2. But that's all right; we probably will just go with 5.1.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
You can try to do everything at once and get a decent setup or you can build it up over time and get a great setup. The choice is entirely yours.

A nice front-3 set of speakers would be fantastic. Along with 300 dollar receiver you could have a great setup. Toss in some Dayton Audio cheap ones for surrounds and a sub and you have a good start.
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
It is a good idea to listen to as many speakers as you can stand, as different people have different preferences. The reason being, there is no such thing as a perfect speaker, so it is a question of which virtues you require and which vices you can stand. Typically, the number of vices drop as price goes up, but there are always vices.

The best approach on that is to listen to all of the types of speakers you can find (e.g., ribbon, horn, dome, whatever) that you can find, from as many brands as you can stand, with all of the types of music to which you normally listen, with music with which you are familiar (making a CDR for this is a good idea). You then take your time, over a series of days (or weeks), and select the ones you like best in your price range.

But a couple of general guidelines. You will want your speakers to be able to go deep enough that you can match them up with a subwoofer without being able to locate the subwoofer from sound alone. Human hearing is not good at its limits, so you cannot tell direction for really deep bass, which is why you can get away with using a subwoofer instead of having all speakers truly full range. The THX standard for the crossover is 80 Hz, and so to use a crossover that low, your main speakers should be able to go below that before hitting the -3dB point in their frequency response. About 60 Hz should be good enough. In practice, this usually means a woofer that is 5" or larger, but you should base your decision on actual performance. This also means that you can use bookshelf size speakers for all main channels, as you can send the deep bass to your subwoofer. I have well over $6k worth of speakers, and I use identical bookshelf speakers for all positions (other than subwoofer, obviously). The reason I have done that is that I can get a higher line of speaker that way than what the same amount would get me in tower speakers. And also I have perfect voice matching all around (see next paragraph).

Ideally, all of your main speakers will match, but the most important thing is for the front three speakers to match. That is so that when the sound pans across the front, it does not change tonal character, only its position in your room. The rear speakers matter less, for two reasons. First, they are used for less important sound effects, and second, humans hear better in front of them than behind them. So if you need to save money on something, you can go pretty cheap on surrounds without it being too bad.


The subwoofer does not need to match the other speakers, and it is totally fine to use a different brand altogether. If your budget were higher, I would recommend going with an SVS (such as the PB-1000), but that would eat up half your budget. My real advice on this is to save up for an SVS and go without a subwoofer for now, but if you do not want to do that, you will want to ask others for advice on cheaper options.

As lsiberian states above, you can buy a few good things now and buy more gear later to finish the system, if you want to end up with a better system without wasting money buying something that you end up replacing. Of course, if cheaper will be good enough for you forever, then that would save money over buying higher priced gear.


Speakers matter far, far more than the receiver. Buy a receiver that has all of the features you require, but whatever extra you spend on it will mean less money for better speakers, and the speakers matter more for the sound than the receiver. I like Yamaha receivers, but Marantz, Denon, and Pioneer are all worth considering.


Regarding wires, do not waste money on exotic ones. You should not pay more than $1/foot for any wire you use of any kind, and probably not even that expensive. Here is a link to probably all (and probably more than) you ever wanted to know about wires:

Speaker Wire

The speaker wire gauge matters; here is a chart:

Speaker Wire

But you don't need anything fancy, just a big enough speaker wire. For other kinds of wires, you don't generally need to worry about gauge. Monoprice.com is a good place to buy reasonably priced wire, though you can also find wire at parts-express.com and at hardware stores.
 
slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Warlord
The $1,000 is just for the receiver and speakers. We use a blu-ray player, an HD DirecTV box, and an Xbox. That's pretty much it. The desired fourth HDMI would be just in case we ever got something else.

Yes, I can see why sticking with 5.1 would be best, since that would be less speakers to have to buy, which would allow more money per speaker. I guess I just liked the idea of getting a second subwoofer someday if I got 7.2. But that's all right; we probably will just go with 5.1.
You could also do 5.2
 
J

jackieck

Enthusiast
Thank you so much for the advice, everybody! It definitely gives me a place to start. I was wondering--do I really need 100 watts per channel with a 12x22 room? Is that more than I need? The Denon AVR-1713 seems pretty nice, but it's only 80 watts at 8 ohms. At 6 ohms, it's 120 watts, but then the distortion is at 0.7%.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
Thank you so much for the advice, everybody! It definitely gives me a place to start. I was wondering--do I really need 100 watts per channel with a 12x22 room? Is that more than I need? The Denon AVR-1713 seems pretty nice, but it's only 80 watts at 8 ohms. At 6 ohms, it's 120 watts, but then the distortion is at 0.7%.
80 to 100 watts is an inaudible difference in headroom. You'd have to go from 100 to 50 watts for it to really register. Besides you'll probably never use that much power.
 
zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
Thank you so much for the advice, everybody! It definitely gives me a place to start. I was wondering--do I really need 100 watts per channel with a 12x22 room? Is that more than I need? The Denon AVR-1713 seems pretty nice, but it's only 80 watts at 8 ohms. At 6 ohms, it's 120 watts, but then the distortion is at 0.7%.
The Denon 1713 is fine

I agree with post #7 on the Cambridge S30 - a solid option >>
I would even buy a second pair and use one as a center channel,
it would be worth it - and perform better

For budget surrounds - look at 2 each of the NXG Pro 4.1
Amazon.com : Nxg Pro 4.1 Satellite Speaker : Home Theater Speaker Systems : Electronics
 
J

jackieck

Enthusiast
Okay, I think I'll find the receiver I want first (I'll keep it to $350 or under), and then I'll know how much money I have for speakers. Then I can take a look at all the speaker recommendations you guys are giving me. We'll be getting a 3D TV, so do I need a receiver with a 3D label on it, since the 3D blu-ray player will be going through it? If I do, why is that? What exactly does a 3D-capable receiver do for a 3D movie? I associate an AVR with audio, so it doesn't make sense that it would have anything to do with 3D.
 
zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
Okay, I think I'll find the receiver I want first (I'll keep it to $350 or under), and then I'll know how much money I have for speakers. Then I can take a look at all the speaker recommendations you guys are giving me. We'll be getting a 3D TV, so do I need a receiver with a 3D label on it, since the 3D blu-ray player will be going through it? If I do, why is that? What exactly does a 3D-capable receiver do for a 3D movie? I associate an AVR with audio, so it doesn't make sense that it would have anything to do with 3D.
Using a non-3D compliant Home Theater Receiver with a 3D TV and 3D Blu-ray Disc Player

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-rsnRj3pBqrP/learn/learningcenter/home/receivers_faq.html
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
Okay, I think I'll find the receiver I want first (I'll keep it to $350 or under), and then I'll know how much money I have for speakers. Then I can take a look at all the speaker recommendations you guys are giving me. We'll be getting a 3D TV, so do I need a receiver with a 3D label on it, since the 3D blu-ray player will be going through it? If I do, why is that? What exactly does a 3D-capable receiver do for a 3D movie? I associate an AVR with audio, so it doesn't make sense that it would have anything to do with 3D.
If the receiver cannot pass a 3D signal, you have a problem unless:

  1. your BD player has 2 HDMI outputs, so you can connect one to your receiver and one directly to your TV, or
  2. your BD player has multichannel analog outputs AND your receiver has multichannel analog inputs.
The reason is, to get the best audio formats, you need to hook up the HDMI from the BD player to your receiver (or the BD player must decode them and send them via multichannel analog).

If the BD player has one HDMI output and no multichannel analog output, and you hook up the HDMI from the BD player to the receiver, and the receiver will not pass 3D, then you cannot watch the movie in 3D because the receiver will not pass the 3D signal. But that would be the only way to get the best sound.

Some BD players these days have no other output but one HDMI. In that case, you would have very seriously degraded audio if you hook that up directly to the TV, as most TVs can only pass 2 channel audio from any of their HDMI inputs.
 
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J

jackieck

Enthusiast
Ah, I get it. The receiver's like the central hub that handles everything, and so it'll need to be able to handle a 3D cable and stuff. Got it. I think I was halfway to understanding that and just needed someone to spell it out for me. Thanks.
 
J

jackieck

Enthusiast
Okay, here's another question: Let's say I get a receiver capable of 100 watts per channel, but then I get an awesome 400-watt subwoofer. I'll obviously only be utilizing a quarter of that subwoofer's power, right? Is this when amplifiers come into play?
 
zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
Okay, here's another question: Let's say I get a receiver capable of 100 watts per channel, but then I get an awesome 400-watt subwoofer. I'll obviously only be utilizing a quarter of that subwoofer's power, right? Is this when amplifiers come into play?
The so-called awesome subwoofer will have its own built in amp - the receiver
pre-out will send the signal to the sub amp.
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
The so-called awesome subwoofer will have its own built in amp - the receiver
pre-out will send the signal to the sub amp.
Yes, the 400W JBL i listed above is not by any means "awesome", merely decent just like my PA-120 sub - decent for that it does, but pretty good considering the price.
And yes, era of passive subs is thank god long gone - 99.9% of subs are active - aka have their own amps.

Stop worry about watts and such. in fact most specs are useless - Tip of the Day: Don't Be too Focused on Loudspeaker Specs & Measurements | Audioholics

And for 3D (which most of us here think is a cheap parlor trick) is not hard to get. All recent equipment supports it, including X1000 avr I linked to above even my TV does (I couldn't care less about it)

In addition to useless 3d, X1000 does indeed have something very important is a full range of Audyssey technologies including MultEQ XT,Dynamic Volume, and Dynamic EQ.
Time and time again we heard most AH member prefer these over similar Yamaha or Pioneer systems. Marantz and Onkyo also use Audyssey as few other smaller brands
 
J

jackieck

Enthusiast
I'm definitely leaning towards a Denon. I've heard enough about Audyssey to be intrigued. I'm actually not crazy about 3D, but I think it's fun every now and then. The TV we're getting is desirable for other reasons, but it just happens to have 3D, too. And I've bought a few 3D blu-rays because they were only a couple bucks more than the normal ones at the time, and I'm all for a good deal. So I figure if I'm getting a 3D TV and I have some 3D blu-rays, I might as well have the option of watching them.

I forgot all about the active/passive thing; thanks for reminding me. I researched all this stuff over a year ago because we were thinking of getting the system then, but stuff happened and we had to wait. So now I have to remind myself of everything again.

I'm trying not to get too caught up in the specs of stuff because it's just too confusing. Will I have to learn about all that ohm stuff? From the specs I've seen, it seems as though 6 ohms yields more power and more distortion to go with it. So when I see specs with 6 versus 8 ohms, I'm focusing on the 8 because of the minimal distortion. For instance, for the Denon AVR 1713, it's 0.08% THD at 8 ohms and 0.7% at 6 ohms. Isn't 0.7% really bad? Why would I even want to use the receiver at 6 ohms? I've heard lower is better, but why? I have a feeling these questions require very long and involved answers. Can you at least point me to a thread that talks about the basics of ohms and whether I should even worry about them?
 
zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
I forgot all about the active/passive thing; thanks for reminding me. I researched all this stuff over a year ago because we were thinking of getting the system then, but stuff happened and we had to wait. So now I have to remind myself of everything again.

I'm trying not to get too caught up in the specs of stuff because it's just too confusing. Will I have to learn about all that ohm stuff? From the specs I've seen, it seems as though 6 ohms yields more power and more distortion to go with it. So when I see specs with 6 versus 8 ohms, I'm focusing on the 8 because of the minimal distortion. For instance, for the Denon AVR 1713, it's 0.08% THD at 8 ohms and 0.7% at 6 ohms. Isn't 0.7% really bad? Why would I even want to use the receiver at 6 ohms? I've heard lower is better, but why? I have a feeling these questions require very long and involved answers. Can you at least point me to a thread that talks about the basics of ohms and whether I should even worry about them?
Well you are still trying to get caught up and confused again
At the forum, we tend to recommend what will work together
Also, before a final purchase, it is good to confirm it here

Stop worrying, or having all this distortion fear

Look at some things here
Loudspeaker Sensitivity Specifications & Measurements Explained | Audioholics

http://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/audio-measurements

Connecting 4-ohm Speakers to an 8-ohm Receiver | Audioholics

Setting the A/V Receiver Impedance Selector Switch | Audioholics

http://www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier/product-managing-receiver-platforms-power-ratings
 
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