how much power do you need?

ratso

ratso

Full Audioholic
we have all seen the math to figure out how much amp power is needed for dynamic peaks (you know, the ones that quickly get up into the 4000W ranges). but obviously, that isn't very feasible. i personally have always felt that for real world cranking up the AC/DC situations that 400W is about the minimum. what is YOUR preferred amp power?

edit: btw, i do know how to figure out amp power ratings for my speakers. i was more wondering how much power you guys consider to be the bottom line cut off for amps (i know, i know, "the more the better").
 
ImcLoud

ImcLoud

Audioholic Ninja
It depends on so many things, in my 2.2 system I have in my front parlor the speakers are of medium efficiency crossed around 80hz to the subs. The amp is 300x2 and the subs are 300 each so that is a total of 1200 watts, BUT I hardly ever go past 1/2 throttle in a fairly large room over 400 sq ft with ceilings as high as 24 ft.... On the other hand while I was waiting for my xpa2 to come in I used my upa200 in that room for a few days and it was easily clipped {un crossed, my xovers are xlr so I couldn't test it crossed but have played the xpa2 uncrossed and it doesn't come close to clipping}....

I say get the amp that your speakers manufacturer recommends, if it says 20-200watts get a 200w as a minimum...

All systems are different, If you are listening nearfield I have never needed more than 50 watts, a large room with some inefficient bookshelfs and no sub I would get as much power as they would take and add a little for headroom...

With the prices of amps 200w per ch is affordable, and is a good starting point...

Also it depends on what channels you are powering, for fronts in an HT 200w pc is good for most, and for surrounds you can get away with 50...
 
S

sterling shoote

Audioholic Field Marshall
I've got about 100 watts per channel from a 5 channel amp powering a 5.1 HT which was once powered by stereo amps bridged to mono for about 300 watts per channel. I am satisfied that 100 watts per channel is enough for an experience similar to hearing the Rolling Stones live at Rupp Arena. That said, 300 watts is not enough to power my JBL B380 subwoofer. I now power it with a Sony TA-N80ES bridged for about 560 watts. With this set up I can play to realistic levels without perception of clipping. BTW, clipping a JBL B380 sounds like sledge hammers slapping. My HT room is 17 x 24 with heavy draperies and carpet. My JBL's are ported and very efficient. They can handle more power but I don't see the need even on dance genre
 
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Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
It is ridiculous to say that one needs a particular amount of power, without reference to the particular circumstances. Take a look at this:


  • Typical home loudspeakers have sensitivities of about 85 to 95 dB for 1 W @ 1 m—an efficiency of 0.5–4%.
  • Sound reinforcement and public address loudspeakers have sensitivities of perhaps 95 to 102 dB for 1 W @ 1 m—an efficiency of 4–10%.
  • Rock concert, stadium PA, marine hailing, etc. speakers generally have higher sensitivities of 103 to 110 dB for 1 W @ 1 m—an efficiency of 10–20%.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudspeaker#Efficiency_vs._sensitivity

Keep in mind, those are typical, not giving us the extreme limits. But I will confine my examples to what is mentioned there. And I will use the calculator you provided in your link.

If you have a pair of speakers that will produce 85dB @ 1 W @ 1 M, at 10 feet with 100 watts, you will have 98.3dB (again, using the calculator to which you provided a link, selecting "away from the walls"). But if you have a pair of speakers that will produce 110dB @ 1 W @ 1 M, at 10 feet with 100 watts, you will have 123.3dB. With that second speaker, no sane person is going to need more than 100 watts at such a distance, especially if we are considering continuous power.

The long and the short of the matter is this: The amount of power needed is a function of several things, not least of which are the particular speakers used.


In the real word, with my home theater, I have a receiver rated for 140 W RMS per channel (into the rated impedance for my speakers) and speakers with a rated sensitivity of 88dB @ 1 W @ 1 M. I sit about 8 feet from the nearest one. It plays more than loud enough for me. And I used to drive the same speakers with a receiver rated at 75 W RMS per channel (into the rated impedance for my speakers), and it played more than loud enough. (If you do the math, you will see that it will be less than a 3dB difference per channel between the old receiver and the new one.) Of course, I have no idea what peak power I have used, as I do not have power meters that would tell me such a thing (most such meters in amplifiers, by the way, are not accurate enough to know this sort of thing anyway).

Of course, some people wish to listen to music at levels that cause permanent damage to their hearing, and so their requirements will be different from someone who wishes to continue to be able to fully enjoy music throughout a long life.
 
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AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I think the minimum should be 100 WPC into 8 ohms, 150WPC into 4 ohms, and 200WPC into 2 ohms.

Just because an amp can output into 4 ohms does not automatically mean it can handle below 4 ohms, which is seldom measured.
 
walter duque

walter duque

Audioholic Samurai
Entry level for me would be 200 watts into 8 Ohms. I could not insult my speakers with less power then that. Like I said that's minimum.
All channels in my system are getting 350 watts into 8 ohms and 500 watts into 4 ohms with 3.5 db of head room. My surrounds are only getting 150 watts into 8 ohms. I do notice a difference when level matching.

 
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sawzalot

sawzalot

Audioholic Samurai
200 watts to each of the front three and 150 to the rears through the Pio but that just may be exaggerated a little bit, but just a little.

The EP 2500 sends 750 watts to each of my two subs.
 
walter duque

walter duque

Audioholic Samurai
200 watts to each of the front three and 150 to the rears through the Pio but that just may be exaggerated a little bit, but just a little.

The EP 2500 sends 750 watts to each of my two subs.
The fronts, center, 2 subs and rear surrounds are getting 350 watts each, except the surrounds are getting 150 watts. Recommended power for my towers is 1000 watts+ for each module and the subs could use 1200-2000 watts. So I am a little shy of that, but system still sounds good to me, for now anyway.
 
Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
Entry level for me would be 200 watts into 8 Ohms.
That's exactly where I'm at. For me it is far from entry level.

You got me looking at my 2.2 rig which is 125 watts for the mains and 200 watts for the subs. Why am I using 125 watt amps when my rec'r will put out more than that? :confused:

I know that when you see a 125 watt rating it's about as tempting as half a cup of luke warm coffee with a cigarette butt sticking out of it. :D
 
ratso

ratso

Full Audioholic
so i was playing with that calculator the other day and found this interesting. let's assume for HT/2 channel that amps range from 100W to 1000W. yes you can go higher with pro amps and run the numbers if you like. for my setup with my salks at 15 feet away i got these numbers:

1000W = 111 db
900W = 110 db
*800W = 110 db
700W = 109 db
600W = 109 db
500W = 108 db
*400W = 107 db
300W = 106 db
*200W = 104 db
*100W = 101 db

so this gives us some cool results. first of all it tells us that a 100W amp can give us over 100db peaks which might be enough for most listening purposes. second it tells me we can save some money here - you could argue that you should only buy the four amps i have an asterisk in front of. if you assume you need an increase of 3db to hear a difference in an amp, those four amps would be it. why would you buy a 1000W amp when a cheaper cooler 600W amp gives you the same audible output (+/- 2 db)? this is also the reason that i think a minimum power of 400W gives you the best bang for your buck as it covers such a wide dynamic range without getting into diminishing returns for skyrocketing costs.
 
walter duque

walter duque

Audioholic Samurai
I know that when you see a 125 watt rating it's about as tempting as half a cup of luke warm coffee with a cigarette butt sticking out of it. :D
[/QUOTE]

I don't know where you come up with some of this stuff. That's what I am looking at right now. Should I drink it or not??
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
1000W = 111 db
900W = 110 db
*800W = 110 db
700W = 109 db
600W = 109 db
500W = 108 db
*400W = 107 db
300W = 106 db
*200W = 104 db
*100W = 101 db

so this gives us some cool results. first of all it tells us that a 100W amp can give us over 100db peaks which might be enough for most listening purposes.
That calculator does not say anything about peaks. Please keep in mind that any decent 100W rated AVR such as those by Yamaha and Denon will give you much more for peaks, as well they will also do better into 4 ohms and even 2 ohms, but again we are talking peaks. For example, the RX-A830 is rated for 100W, but it's dynamic power is specified as:


Front L/R (8/6/4/2 ohms)..........140/180/210/250W. Another thing, for those who always listen to 2.1 or 2.2 such as ADTG, they will get a lot of help from the sub to bump up the SPL.
 
fuzz092888

fuzz092888

Audioholic Warlord
The fronts, center, 2 subs and rear surrounds are getting 350 watts each, except the surrounds are getting 150 watts. Recommended power for my towers is 1000 watts+ for each module and the subs could use 1200-2000 watts. So I am a little shy of that, but system still sounds good to me, for now anyway.
Actually I think your towers (and likely the rest of your EVO 2 system) is around 90db 1W/1m and and 4 ohms, which means they can get about 450-500 watts out of your 3K6.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
That's exactly where I'm at. For me it is far from entry level.

You got me looking at my 2.2 rig which is 125 watts for the mains and 200 watts for the subs. Why am I using 125 watt amps when my rec'r will put out more than that? :confused:

I know that when you see a 125 watt rating it's about as tempting as half a cup of luke warm coffee with a cigarette butt sticking out of it. :D
Why? Because I need 0.1W with 20W peak but I got 300W "cont." and am happy, that's why.:D:D
 
fuzz092888

fuzz092888

Audioholic Warlord
That's exactly where I'm at. For me it is far from entry level.

You got me looking at my 2.2 rig which is 125 watts for the mains and 200 watts for the subs. Why am I using 125 watt amps when my rec'r will put out more than that? :confused:

I know that when you see a 125 watt rating it's about as tempting as half a cup of luke warm coffee with a cigarette butt sticking out of it. :D
I think my computer speakers are getting around 350 watts and another 300 for the sub. I think I need another 3K6 :eek:
 
Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
Why? Because I need 0.1W with 20W peak but I got 300W "cont." and am happy, that's why.:D:D
LOL ... I was looking at my post and looking at my amps and considering availing my rack of some non essential equipment. Then I remembered that the reason anything at all is amped up to begin with is that not all rec'rs behave well with lower impedance loads which many speakers present. At the end of the day it's mostly your fault that I have amps at all. I was actually pretty happy with my H/K AVR 430. You have ruined me. :D
 
DannyA

DannyA

Audioholic
So I have a 5.1 system. All of the speakers have a 92dB sensitivity rating. The factory spec is 8 ohm however the DefTech support tech recommended I run them at 6 ohm. The tech indicated I may get a little more db by setting them to 6 ohm. So how much of a difference does the ohm setting make in relation to the spl calculator? Also, how do I relate the calculator results with the actual volume knob setting on my receiver? I rarely get past -10dB as indicated on my AVR display before it is really loud. I can go to -0dB only on a few recordings like Pink Floyd or classical. From the results below, does this mean my system will hit 113.8 dB when the volume knob is set to +21.5dB? If not +21dB, then where would I expect to see the volume setting at 113.8 dB?

spl_calc.PNG

Pioneer PDP-5020FD
Yamaha RX-V3800
Samsung BD-F5700 Blu-ray Player
Sony - PS3
Definitive Technology BP7006 Mains
Definitive Technology CS-8060 HD Center
Definitive Technology Pro Monitor 1000 Surround
Power Sound Audio XS 15 Subwoofer
 

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