Need some advice... Hard $1000 budget.

[AllenA07]

Group,

I'm trying to pick a sub and need some feedback. I'm working with $1000 (wife will actually kill me if I go higher) and will be using it for about 90% movies. Right now I've got a BIC F-12 which, while not a bad value, just isn't what I'm looking for anymore. Anyway, here are the three I'm looking at:

Dual SVS PB 1000's
PSA XV15
HSU vtf-15h

Room acoustics are somewhat irrelevant. I plan on moving in the next 2 years and eventually would like to go to a dedicated theater.

Any thoughts on this would be great, also some opinions about trying to pair my BIC sub with the new sub. I appreciate it.

 

[shadyJ]

The VTF15h is just a bit over 1K after shipping. It will hit harder than a couple of PB1000s, but if you have some freedom of placement for the PB1000s they can provide you with a flatter frequency response. I would not try to pair the BIC with any of those. All it could contribute in such a setup is sloppy bass and distortion, it will do nothing to add to the headroom next to any of those. I would go either the VTF15h or two PB1000s. If you eventually get a dedicated theater you could add another VTF15h for something really formidable.

 

[Pyrrho]

Will you be able to spend more money in the future, or is this budget fixed for the rest of your life? If you can spend more money in the future, I would probably go with one of these:

PC12-NSD

And buy another one in the future when I had more money to spend. If you hate that shape, you could go with:

PB-2000 - SVS

and buy another one of those in the future.


Don't try to pair your new sub with the old one. Get rid of the old one, or use it in a second system.

 

[Basshead81]

I you consider buying used there is a pair of lightly used XV15's for 675.00 each over at AVS forum audio gear section. If that is asking too much then get the PB-1000's. Either way dual subs are a minimum imo.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1512933/power-sound-audio-psa-xv-15-subwoofer

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I you consider buying used there is a pair of lightly used XV15's for 675.00 each over at AVS forum audio gear section. If that is asking too much then get the PB-1000's. Either way dual subs are a minimum imo.
Power Sound Audio (PSA) XV-15 Subwoofer

Imo the seller is not quite honest on that listing.. The the introduction price for xv-15 was $750...
and secondly the redesigned model (without the base) with identical performance (if judged by spec'd) carries current price tag at only $799
Buyer will need to see if PS will honor the 5 year warranty.
I don't care how well kept it was, selling it only 10% (very likely) below original purchase price and Imo for used product is a rip-off.
I think the fair price would around $1000 for both units

 

[ImcLoud]

I would go with the uls15 for the sale price and then add another when you move...

But another good option is diy 2 of these Dayton Audio 15" Ultimax Subwoofer and Cabinet Package | 300-7097 then one of these Crown XLS 1500 DriveCore Series Power Amplifier | 245-502 figure even with glue and paint you are still under $1000 and can have a lot more output than anything on your list... that will be 775 watts at 2 ohms per channel so almost 1600 watts rms, I dont even know what the peak would be ? 2500-3000?

 

[AllenA07]

A little more information. The agreement I have with the wife is one new toy per year, so in the future adding a second sub is something that I plan on doing. Space is a bit limited (not horribly, but these are large subs) and my surrounds are in serious need of replacing, so it might be a while. Secondly, it is a hard budget in the terms that I don't want to go flying over it. $20 over my budget is fine, $100 isn't. This started as a plan to buy a second bic sub, it's just taken on a life of its own.

 

[Basshead81]

Imo the seller is not quite honest on that listing.. The the introduction price for xv-15 was $750...
and secondly the redesigned model (without the base) with identical performance (if judged by spec'd) carries current price tag at only $799
Buyer will need to see if PS will honor the 5 year warranty.
I don't care how well kept it was, selling it only 10% (very likely) below original purchase price and Imo for used product is a rip-off.
I think the fair price would around $1000 for both units

The current price to buy a new XV15 with Base is 899.00...The XV15's with base were 799.00 before the price increase due the rising cost of mdf. However It does not matter if they were 799.00 when he purchased them since it takes 899.00 to buy one now with a base. PSA allows the warranty to be transfered and I do believe the listing says the price is negotiable. I do agree that 1000.00 is a fair price but the seller is not being dishonest.

 

[jinjuku]

This dual opposed from Parts Express:

Dayton Audio RS1202K 1000 Watt Dual 12" Subwoofer Kit | 300-766

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

The current price to buy a new XV15 with Base is 899.00...The XV15's with base were 799.00 before the price increase due the rising cost of mdf. However It does not matter if they were 799.00 when he purchased them since it takes 899.00 to buy one now with a base. PSA allows the warranty to be transfered and I do believe the listing says the price is negotiable. I do agree that 1000.00 is a fair price but the seller is not being dishonest.

Yes, $899 is current price of XV-15 w/base. $799 was the "regular" price same sub only recently. But the original intro price was $750.
I was not implying that the seller is dishonest and he is in his right to omit few of these numbers....

My point is the original intro price (750) held out for a while.

Now currently PS discount for buying pair is 5% (or more possibly) so it's 750*0.95=$712 SHIPPED (for each then buying the pair at intro price).

If this was indeed the case, asking now $675 (BEFORE SHIPPING) is a bit cheeky (and yes, nod to seller as he say he will be willing to consider "serious?" offers)

 

[jinjuku]

Yes, $899 is current price of XV-15 w/base. $799 was the "regular" price same sub only recently. But the original intro price was $750.
I was not implying that the seller is dishonest and he is in his right to omit few of these numbers....

My point is the original intro price (750) held out for a while.

Now currently PS discount for buying pair is 5% (or more possibly) so it's 750*0.95=$712 SHIPPED (for each then buying the pair at intro price).

If this was indeed the case, asking now $675 (BEFORE SHIPPING) is a bit cheeky (and yes, nod to seller as he say he will be willing to consider "serious?" offers)

Caveat emptor and all that jazz.

 

[Basshead81]

Yes, $899 is current price of XV-15 w/base. $799 was the "regular" price same sub only recently. But the original intro price was $750.
I was not implying that the seller is dishonest and he is in his right to omit few of these numbers....

My point is the original intro price (750) held out for a while.

Now currently PS discount for buying pair is 5% (or more possibly) so it's 750*0.95=$712 SHIPPED (for each then buying the pair at intro price).

If this was indeed the case, asking now $675 (BEFORE SHIPPING) is a bit cheeky (and yes, nod to seller as he say he will be willing to consider "serious?" offers)

True...I think if the OP could score those for 1k that would be a smoking deal!

 

[shadyJ]

I would go with the uls15 for the sale price and then add another when you move...

But another good option is diy 2 of these Dayton Audio 15" Ultimax Subwoofer and Cabinet Package | 300-7097 then one of these Crown XLS 1500 DriveCore Series Power Amplifier | 245-502 figure even with glue and paint you are still under $1000 and can have a lot more output than anything on your list... that will be 775 watts at 2 ohms per channel so almost 1600 watts rms, I dont even know what the peak would be ? 2500-3000?

The ULS-15 looks like it is too far over the OP's budget. However, there is a ULS in the B-stock that would be about $1040 shipped. Two Dayton Ultimaxs would be pretty good as well, I would go with something like that. I would go for the Dayton HF drivers over the Ultimaxes though. I would give up some xmax for lower distortion and a flatter response. I might swing for a Behringer DSP iNuke amp as well.

 

[shadyJ]

This dual opposed from Parts Express:

Dayton Audio RS1202K 1000 Watt Dual 12" Subwoofer Kit | 300-766

Like I said in the other thread, I think this is a great choice. However, who knows what shipping on that beast would be like. It says Truck Only so it doesn't carry the free shipping, and it isn't likely to be shipped cheap. Also, I wouldn't expect it to have as much displacement as something like the VTF15h, however, I think for the same loudness below its limits, it could easily have less THD than any of these others, so maybe it would have the cleanest bass.

 

[Basshead81]

Shady, after hearing a Dayton sub1200, which is a budget sub @ 129.99, what do you think about the Sub1500? I can say the sub1200 sounds way more accurate and musical then any other sub below 200.00 that I have herd. Makes me a believer that the ultimax amd titanic kits would offer some amazingl clean bass for the money.

 

[shadyJ]

Shady, after hearing a Dayton sub1200, which is a budget sub @ 129.99, what do you think about the Sub1500? I can say the sub1200 sounds way more accurate and musical then any other sub below 200.00 that I have herd. Makes me a believer that the ultimax amd titanic kits would offer some amazingl clean bass for the money.

I haven't heard any of the Dayton subs. I don't think the Sub1500 will be that great, not to say it is that bad. What you are looking at is probably a low xmax, medium sensitivity driver, and the cabinet is likely to be tuned fairly high. I think you can expect to see a lot of bass above 60 hz, but not too much below that. You are looking at a driver like this but maybe with some more corners cut for costs, so think it may act like this but without as much SPL is my guess. It still may not sound bad, because, for all the pursuit of deep bass that the hobbyists are into, so much more bass is up there in the 70s, 80s, 90 Hz range.

What's more exciting is the Dayton Ultimax 18 which is supposed to be out in February sometime, some speculation based on specs that I have read is that it may have close to Mach 5 UXL-18 performance for $280, that could get you an insane system for very cheap. Imagine getting something like a JTR S2 for under $1k! Ricci is scheduled to be testing one sometime soon.

 

[Basshead81]

I haven't heard any of the Dayton subs. I don't think the Sub1500 will be that great, not to say it is that bad. What you are looking at is probably a low xmax, medium sensitivity driver, and the cabinet is likely to be tuned fairly high. I think you can expect to see a lot of bass above 60 hz, but not too much below that. You are looking at a driver like this but maybe with some more corners cut for costs, so think it may act like this but without as much SPL is my guess. It still may not sound bad, because, for all the pursuit of deep bass that the hobbyists are into, so much more bass is up there in the 70s, 80s, 90 Hz range.

What's more exciting is the Dayton Ultimax 18 which is supposed to be out in February sometime, some speculation based on specs that I have read is that it may have close to Mach 5 UXL-18 performance for $280, that could get you an insane system for very cheap. Imagine getting something like a JTR S2 for under $1k! Ricci is scheduled to be testing one sometime soon.

Ok now you have my attention!! I am seriously contemplating building some 18's someday. I want to go vented tho with a plate amp.

 

[shadyJ]

There isn't really any point in a plate amp unless you just have nowhere to put a shelf unit. Plate amps are typically a lot more expensive for the same power and features set, plus they are just add that much more of a hassle to construct the cabinet. Also a shelf unit should be easier to keep cool and ventilated. Not only that, but if a plate amp goes bad down the road, you will want to be able to get that same amp for the cabinet cut out, but what if it is discontinued? With a shelf unit all you have to do is reconnect some cables.

 

[Basshead81]

There isn't really any point in a plate amp unless you just have nowhere to put a shelf unit. Plate amps are typically a lot more expensive for the same power and features set, plus they are just add that much more of a hassle to construct the cabinet. Also a shelf unit should be easier to keep cool and ventilated. Not only that, but if a plate amp goes bad down the road, you will want to be able to get that same amp for the cabinet cut out, but what if it is discontinued? With a shelf unit all you have to do is reconnect some cables.

Good point...This project will not happen until the day comes I can build a dedicated theatre. At that point running wires from a shelf unit will be no big deal. I am thinking 4 18's, slot vented, 15hz tune, not sure on power yet...all depends on the driver used I guess(Either that Ultimax 18" or UXL).

My only question is: Now looking at that Ultimax 18", it looks to have similar traits of the Power X 15" driver. 2" peak to peak excursion, triple stack ferrite magnents, cast aluminum 12 spoke frame. The motor does not look that large, Must be due to the triple stack instead of one slug. I thought these were all traits that you did not like?

 

[shadyJ]

Good point...This project will not happen until the day comes I can build a dedicated theatre. At that point running wires from a shelf unit will be no big deal. I am thinking 4 18's, slot vented, 15hz tune, not sure on power yet...all depends on the driver used I guess(Either that Ultimax 18" or UXL).

My only question is: Now looking at that Ultimax 18", it looks to have similar traits of the Power X 15" driver. 2" peak to peak excursion, triple stack ferrite magnents, cast aluminum 12 spoke frame. The motor does not look that large, Must be due to the triple stack instead of one slug. I thought these were all traits that you did not like?

The motor looks small because the basket is so large. Those are probably 7" magnets wrapped around a 3" VC. The BL is pretty high though, 24.5 Tm, so the magnetic strength is there. But a good chunk of that is from a dual layer VC. The Le isn't great though, but the driver does have a couple of shorting rings. I doubt the Power X driver has any. The Ultimax 18 is not a perfect driver on paper, but we will have to wait for measurements. Oh, and this might have near 1" (22 mm) xmax if the specs are right, which will put it close to 2" peak to peak xmax. Xmax is different from excursion, which is what PSA claims for the Power X driver. I doubt very much that the Power X driver has an actual 2" peak to peak xmas, which would put its xmas at 25 mm. PSA only claims excursion which doesn't have much technical meaning by itself.

It is not my ideal driver, but what the Ultimax 18 is doing is moving a LOT of air. It achieves a large chunk of its magnetic strength from its voice coil, which is not ideal, but it needs a ton of it because of its rumored mms: 640 grams! If you don't know, Mms is the weight of the moving part of the driver, the voice coil and cone. 640 grams is very heavy, and this has caused some concern from some of the DIY guys. That is more weight than even the TC Sounds LMS Ultra. Speculation is they piled on the weight to lower the Fs. Anyway, yes, like the Power X driver, this is going to have a good amount of induction, but at least some measures were taken to control it. We will see how it is when Ricci measures it.