HTPC vs WDTV vs KDLinks

[brabus]

I'm looking to toss our current DLNA solution as it is simply becoming more than I care to manage. I am an IT guy by trade, and while I love to tinker with computers, networking etc, however, after spending 8+ hours on the job the last thing I want to do is have to tinker with a piece of tech when I'm trying to watch a flick.

I've looked at the Dune Smart solutions but have read that they no longer make devices that will play Bluray .iso's with menus. Is there currently a device out there that will run a BRD iso with menu, stream netflix,hulu,etc, and play a myriad of audio/video file types without transcoding. DTS MA and True HD are a must.

I've also looked at the Intel NUC's and OpenElec/XBMC, but not sure if I want to devote all that time in managing another device unless there is limited involvement. How polished are XBMC, Plex etc? Whould I be better off going with a device such as WDTV or KDLinks? If so, would I get all of the desired functionality?

Any opinions and experiences are welcomed.

Thanks for reading!

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Since I finished setting up initially all xbmc and files collection - time I dedicate to management tasks of openelec itself is zero ... just saying
Rough edges would be around things like BD menus and remote control is not 100% bulletproof imo, but otherwise it's fine

 

[aberkowitz]

Since I finished setting up initially all xbmc and files collection - time I dedicate to management tasks of openelec itself is zero ...

+1

I don't believe there's a solution out there that doesn't involve some investment of sweat equity at the start. Personally I found the hardware build to be the easiest part- more time has been spent ripping my collection and occasionally tweaking software settings (I'm a plex user). The playing of media on any one of my devices (home theater, bedroom roku, iPads, iPhones, etc) is painless.

 

[itschris]

I was where you're at now and decided on the HTPC route. There's a ton of solutions out there, but all seemed to have limitations that would always get me close to what I want but still leave a few holes. I went the HTPC route. My thought was that I could build exactly what I want, to do everything I want, and still have expandability, scaleability, flexibility, and some sort of near term future proofing. I didn't want another little device sitting in a drawer that's no longer needed or woefully out of date. Hell, the worst case with an HTPC is that you end up with a computer that you can repurpose into any number of things.

The difficult part is figuring out what parts to buy. I agonized over it...a lot more than I should have, but ended up with a great machine. It's all chronicled here: http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/home-theater-pc-htpc-media-servers/88705-htpc-build-part-1-stuff.html

it explains what and why I ordered what I did, what I ended up changing after ton of great advice. To me that was the hard part, but now that's done for you! Well... At least it'll give you a starting point if you erected like me and didn't have a clue what the latest hardware offerings were.

My stuff should be coming late this week or early next. I have to do some traveling, but I'll be putting it all together as soon as I can...which will be another post and hopefully full of good advice and how-to since it's been awhile since I built a computer.

 

[brabus]

Since I finished setting up initially all xbmc and files collection - time I dedicate to management tasks of openelec itself is zero ... just saying
Rough edges would be around things like BD menus and remote control is not 100% bulletproof imo, but otherwise it's fine

Is XBMC intuitive enough to select the highest quality audio track available in a BD .iso? Or can you at least select which track you want to use, such as DTS MA or True-HD? Will it do the same with .mkv or m2ts files created from BD discs that contain all original audio tracks? One of the problems I have with my current DLNA solution is that it does not seem to pass DTS-MA or True-HD, regardless of whether its an .iso, mkv, or m2ts.

Do you have any suggestions regarding which remote would be the most compatible? I will likely use a keyboard and mouse as well, but it's nice to be able to have a single remote to control everything.

+1

I don't believe there's a solution out there that doesn't involve some investment of sweat equity at the start. Personally I found the hardware build to be the easiest part- more time has been spent ripping my collection and occasionally tweaking software settings (I'm a plex user). The playing of media on any one of my devices (home theater, bedroom roku, iPads, iPhones, etc) is painless.

I agree, hardware build out is typically the easiest part. Its temperamental software I deplore.

I was where you're at now and decided on the HTPC route. There's a ton of solutions out there, but all seemed to have limitations that would always get me close to what I want but still leave a few holes. I went the HTPC route. My thought was that I could build exactly what I want, to do everything I want, and still have expandability, scaleability, flexibility, and some sort of near term future proofing. I didn't want another little device sitting in a drawer that's no longer needed or woefully out of date. Hell, the worst case with an HTPC is that you end up with a computer that you can repurpose into any number of things.

The difficult part is figuring out what parts to buy. I agonized over it...a lot more than I should have, but ended up with a great machine. It's all chronicled here: http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/home-theater-pc-htpc-media-servers/88705-htpc-build-part-1-stuff.html

it explains what and why I ordered what I did, what I ended up changing after ton of great advice. To me that was the hard part, but now that's done for you! Well... At least it'll give you a starting point if you erected like me and didn't have a clue what the latest hardware offerings were.

My stuff should be coming late this week or early next. I have to do some traveling, but I'll be putting it all together as soon as I can...which will be another post and hopefully full of good advice and how-to since it's been awhile since I built a computer.

Thanks for the information! Do you currently subscribe to cable or dish and are looking at building a HTPC as a means to do away with cable. Or will you be using your HTPC in conjunction with it, as a PVR/DVR for instance?

 

[itschris]

My HTPC will start out as a movie playback device only. Once I get that under control, I'd like to add tuner cards and have it do DVR chores as well. I have cable... which I hate... especially now because the last 3 months we've had attrocious... and mean attrocious PQ. They can't seem to figure out what's wrong. Our entire neighborhood is affected. I'd like to drop cable altogether, but I'm a channel flipper. I don't really watch a lot of shows religiously... actually I don't watch any like that. Most of what I watch is stuff like Gold Rush, Ax Men, re-runs of Big Bang Theory, Law & Order, and all that. I'll watch one, then flip on comercial to something else, then flip back... maybe.

I'm not sure what my box will ultimately become, but i have enough horsepower and space in the case to do a lot.

 

[aberkowitz]

Is XBMC intuitive enough to select the highest quality audio track available in a BD .iso? Or can you at least select which track you want to use, such as DTS MA or True-HD? Will it do the same with .mkv or m2ts files created from BD discs that contain all original audio tracks? One of the problems I have with my current DLNA solution is that it does not seem to pass DTS-MA or True-HD, regardless of whether its an .iso, mkv, or m2ts.

I can't answer directly for XMBC, but since Plex is built on top of the same engine I think they both act similarly. In my case I can easily select which audio track I want from the start or switch in the middle of playback- if I've ripped multiple tracks. I primarily rip BDs/DVDs into MKV format and strip out all of the extraneous extras and audio tracks except for the highest quality audio. DTS-MA and True HD both get passed-through and I get the lovely logo(s) on my receiver.

Regarding software- I've found that ongoing maintenance is minimal. There are semi-regular updates that need to be processed that add/delete features, but generally once you make your settings there's very little reason to make ongoing changes.

 

[brabus]

My HTPC will start out as a movie playback device only. Once I get that under control, I'd like to add tuner cards and have it do DVR chores as well. I have cable... which I hate... especially now because the last 3 months we've had attrocious... and mean attrocious PQ. They can't seem to figure out what's wrong. Our entire neighborhood is affected. I'd like to drop cable altogether, but I'm a channel flipper. I don't really watch a lot of shows religiously... actually I don't watch any like that. Most of what I watch is stuff like Gold Rush, Ax Men, re-runs of Big Bang Theory, Law & Order, and all that. I'll watch one, then flip on comercial to something else, then flip back... maybe.

I'm not sure what my box will ultimately become, but i have enough horsepower and space in the case to do a lot.

Picture quality with our cable provider is horrible as well. The only reason why we still have cable is because of HBO, and its HBO that has quality issues, (along with CBS and quite a few others). During any fast moving scenes the picture becomes blocky I guess you would say. Turning on motion smoothing doesn't help nor do any of the other enhancement settings on our TC-P65VT60. I wonder if DirectTV is any better in that department; I really don't see HBO going ala carte any time soon unfortunately.

I can't answer directly for XMBC, but since Plex is built on top of the same engine I think they both act similarly. In my case I can easily select which audio track I want from the start or switch in the middle of playback- if I've ripped multiple tracks. I primarily rip BDs/DVDs into MKV format and strip out all of the extraneous extras and audio tracks except for the highest quality audio. DTS-MA and True HD both get passed-through and I get the lovely logo(s) on my receiver.

Regarding software- I've found that ongoing maintenance is minimal. There are semi-regular updates that need to be processed that add/delete features, but generally once you make your settings there's very little reason to make ongoing changes.

I'm going to have to look at Plex a bit more along with XBMC. I have an old PC lying around with a Q6600 and a 4870x2 in it I could test with I suppose. Are there any PQ differences between a BR disc and a mkv/m2ts passthru file ripped from the disc? Can you shove a BR disc into the drive and play it from within Plex/XBMC?

 

[aberkowitz]

I'm going to have to look at Plex a bit more along with XBMC. I have an old PC lying around with a Q6600 and a 4870x2 in it I could test with I suppose. Are there any PQ differences between a BR disc and a mkv/m2ts passthru file ripped from the disc? Can you shove a BR disc into the drive and play it from within Plex/XBMC?

Chris actually posed the first question over the BD/DVD section, and the answer was there's no difference. As long as you aren't further compressing the mkv after the rip, the AQ/PQ should be identical to what's on the disc.

Based on my research to date, Plex cannot play a disc- whether it be BD or DVD. You need to either a) rip the movie, or b) use alternative software to play the disc.

 

[brabus]

Thanks mate, I wonder if theres a plugin for XBMC that allows you to mount up a bd/dvd .iso through TMT. If not I bet a custom script would do the job.

Can't wait to see how Chris is doing with his new HTPC. I will likely be canceling cable soon, thanks for all the help everyone!

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

XBMC will fully support HD Audio pass-thru to receiver with right system and changing audio channels during playback is very easy

 

[itschris]

Thanks mate, I wonder if theres a plugin for XBMC that allows you to mount up a bd/dvd .iso through TMT. If not I bet a custom script would do the job.

Can't wait to see how Chris is doing with his new HTPC. I will likely be canceling cable soon, thanks for all the help everyone!

All the rest of my crap is coming tomorrow. I have to travel a bit next week, but I'm hoping to get this together this weekend. The next few days and upcoming week are mostly spoken for, but I'm hoping in between everything I can get the box put together. It's nothing I want to rush however since the last time I built a computer was when IDE and PCI was the hot setup.

I don't believe you can run a disc through XMBC. I've seen the question asked in forums and there is no mention of any plugins. If you just want to play the disc, any $50 bd player will do the trick. XMBC is really for managing and playing all your stored digital media. Just rip your discs with MKVMaker and you'll be fine. If space is an issue, a lot of people use .264 compression scheme and say there's no difference.

I'll create a new HTPC post when the stuff comes in and will chronical my woes trying to get it up and running.

 

[brabus]

Not really the discs, I'm referring to .iso's of the discs. Storage isn't an issue, convenience is. I don't want to have to get up and slap a disc in the drive. I would like to push a button on a remote and have a .iso load and play as I have quite a few BD iso's. I suppose I could convert them to mkv/m2ts passthru with DVDFab or whatever but that requires work ;-)

I remember a few years ago I was able to sort of get this working with either mymovies or WMC coupled with TMT platinum. I figured by now there would be a way.

I've been using Wild Media Server to play those .iso's via DLNA, but either my panny tc-p65vt60 wont do DTS MA over DLNA through the ARC to my new X-4000, or wild media server isn't sending out the audio correctly to begin with. I have re-ripped some of my blurays to test Wild Media server but haven't had any luck.

This wasn't a big deal until I got my new home theater speaker setup. Hence the reason I am switching back to a HTPC/Streamer.

 

[BMXTRIX]

This is a huge issue that XBMC owners ignore to my knowledge. They insist that the issue is not XBMC, but the fact that you are unwilling to get rid of your entire menu structure, extras, etc. because you are stupid and should be playing MKVs. Obviously, not everyone thinks that way, but it certainly is the way that I felt when I got into XBMC for about 5 minutes before returning to my Dune players... which are a long way from perfect but DO give me full BD menus and work for the only and exclusive purpose I got them for: Playing my BD ISO rips and other media content. For streaming I... Well I have AppleTV, but I also have a Roku which I haven't hooked up to try yet. I don't do much streaming, the quality just bugs me, and I'm happy to chill in front of my computer monitors for that with headphones on.

Anyway, while there are certainly a lot of XBMC/Plex users out there, and I really think that it is a good product for many, it remains the case that I have over 300 BD and 300 more DVD ISO files which I demand be played back by whatever I use, and the Dune players do it (except the newest model).

What's good? The Dune players have a solid remote control and were built around a 10' interface. They are fairly straightforward to connect to your network, setup to browse to specific files, and to start any supported file playing back.

What's bad? They don't have a native movie wall, and adding a 3rd party one isn't hard, but is tedious. Yeah, it just bugs me that I have to manually go out and load the cover art. No, wait, I just go to my PC and tell it to find new stuff and it does, but it seems like the Dune players should be built to support the media wall systems a lot better. Zappiti, Yadis, MyMovies, etc should all have native Dune support where they just go out at 3 in the morning and look at the network for new media. If they find some, they update, if not, they go back to sleep. Nope, you gotta do it yourself. Oh, and much like I've seen from other players, it can be kind of slow. Not a lot of horsepower behind the chip or the memory.

I am still searching for the 'perfect' media player, and it doesn't exist as far as I can tell.

The HTPC really stands out because you can build it so it isn't slow. I mean, good graphics is easy, and mostly not that expensive. But, a good processor and memory means you can make those suckers really fast and work well. But, considering that you can get a Roku and a media player of any number of varieties for under a few hundred bucks, it certainly isn't the worst way to go. It's just frustrating that there just doesn't seem to be a 'perfect' NMT product out there yet... Well Kaleidescape if you have the cash.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I agree BD Iso playback (menus) is far from perfect in recent XBMC versions, but it never occurred to me as a major issue. I still can change sountracks/subtitles later on if needed...
Unprotected BD or flat files -> MakeMKV and no more bd menu issues

 

[brabus]

So, it appears there is a hole in the market then, that is only filled by a $4000.00 device. Does the Cinema One even do Netflix?

Surely someone has looked to fill the gap in the market but is failing, I wonder why...

 

[BMXTRIX]

So, it appears there is a hole in the market then, that is only filled by a $4000.00 device. Does the Cinema One even do Netflix?

In all fairness, my Dune players provide the full menu on my discs. Just their newest 3D version does not.

If I want Netflix, I will get a $50 Roku or a BD player, but if I want quality movie playback of my collection, then a NMT solution whether it be a HTPC or Dune, Popcorn Hour, WDTV, or something else would be great, but certainly none of them are gravy the way Kaleidescape is. Of course Kaleidescape is legal while any solutions where you rip your content from BDs is definitely... questionable. I can't say you don't have authorization from studios to break their encryption, but I would guess that most of us don't.

At the end, I'm still waiting for a breakthrough NMT.

 

[brabus]

I'm just saying that $4000 for a device that doesn't do everything, relative to our discussion, is ridiculous. So essentially I have to pay someone 4K for the licensing right to stream my already purchased media, sounds legit!

 

[itschris]

Here's how I see it after thinking about all this stuff for 3 years. The HTPC (XMBC or PLEX) solution is really just a library of content and convenient and show-off worthy interfaces. The reality is, on first run, I may actually use my BD player... just to see any of the nifty stuff they have. But I watch stuff more than once and when have friends and family over for movie night, it's cool just to hand someone and iPad and say "your pic." It's nice that movie just plays and I don't have to sit through 20 minutes of nonesense I can't skip.

I honestly cannot remember the last time I used chapter selection or any other extra functionality. I just watch the movie usually and maybe check out extras later. I can always do that... maybe not with my HTPC but let's not forget you still have the player.

 

[panteragstk]

The way mine is set up I have a dialog box that will pop up when you pick a movie that literally asks if you want to watch just the movie or movie with menus. One program launches for main movie playback, another for full menus. All seamless to the user.