Denon AVR-33xx/43xx quality issues?

[surveyor]

PS, The AVR-4520ci was bought new and the AVR3312ci was refurbished.

I have an AVR-3312ci and an AVR4520ci and I'm impressed. The AVR-4520ci rocks my boat to the gills. The AVR3312ci is awesome!

 

[herbu]

So, every refurb should get tested, while every new item does not.

That is not my experience.

There are primary mfg lines for new build. These line are staffed by the "A team", have the most efficient and complete test equipment, and each unit is tested. Refurbs likely have their own mfg line/site. Their volume is much lower and more diverse between products, and their operators are more Jack-of-all-trades than specialized, (because they have to handle any product and some weird issues). Expected reliability drives the significant difference in warranties between refurb and new. (Warranty is the company betting there won't be a problem... and you can see they make a much larger/longer bet on new builds.)

Given the choice, I would buy "new" every time. How much will a couple hundred $ savings be worth AFTER you have everything set up, connected, dialed in, then have to unplug everything and send it back for repair... whether covered or not? Just my .02

 

[cpp]

Here is a copy of Denon's refurnished warranty and Denon repair I found on the web http://ca.denon.com/DocumentMaster/US/WebWarrHOME-B-STOCK-Apr07a.pdf

[url]http://www.panurgyoem.com/denon/denonrepair.html
[/URL]

 

[GlocksRock]

Next time you guys think about buying refurbished, send me a PM.

Why buy refurbished when you could buy brand new authorized for the same price as refurbished?

I'll be putting together a surround sound system for a freind of mine pretty soon, and I know the budget will be tight. If you know where I can get a brand new receiver for the price of a refurb, and from an authorized dealer, please let me know!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

NOW you tell me! Just kidding, I knew you have a dealer friend who gives you awesome deals, but, now I'll make sure I ping you for my ATI amp .

Yeah, you should. He's an audiophile like most of us here on AH, not like typical "dealers". So he likes to help out.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I'll be putting together a surround sound system for a freind of mine pretty soon, and I know the budget will be tight. If you know where I can get a brand new receiver for the price of a refurb, and from an authorized dealer, please let me know!

Sent you a PM.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

A LOT of gear (especially electronics) gets returned to the stores because the buyer doesn't understand how to work it correctly. Those types of returns will be sold as refurbs.

No, it's not.

If an item is simply returned to the store without any issues, it is NOT sold as a REFURBISHED.

If an item is simply returned to the store without any issues, it is sold as an OPEN BOX item, which entitles the buyer to the FULL ORIGINAL MANUFACTURER WARRANTY. So a new Denon with 3 YR warranty that has been simply returned to the store and sold as OPEN BOX will get 3 YR warranty.

It is REFURBISHED only when the item has been shipped back to the REPAIR center to actually REPAIR something DEFECTIVE. The warranty is usually 90 days only.

I have spoken to a few Denon reps regarding this issue of REFURBISHED vs. OPEN BOX.

You should give Denon a call and ask them. I did a few times just to make sure I was getting the same answer.

 

[Pyrrho]

A LOT of gear (especially electronics) gets returned to the stores because the buyer doesn't understand how to work it correctly. Those types of returns will be sold as refurbs.
....

No, they typically won't. They will typically be sold as "open box" items. If they did what you suggest, there would be virtually no "open box" items for sale.

 

[Pyrrho]

That is not my experience.

There are primary mfg lines for new build. These line are staffed by the "A team", have the most efficient and complete test equipment, and each unit is tested. Refurbs likely have their own mfg line/site. Their volume is much lower and more diverse between products, and their operators are more Jack-of-all-trades than specialized, (because they have to handle any product and some weird issues). Expected reliability drives the significant difference in warranties between refurb and new. (Warranty is the company betting there won't be a problem... and you can see they make a much larger/longer bet on new builds.)

Given the choice, I would buy "new" every time. How much will a couple hundred $ savings be worth AFTER you have everything set up, connected, dialed in, then have to unplug everything and send it back for repair... whether covered or not? Just my .02

Additionally, there is no possible way that it would be cost-effective to test every receiver for every configuration and feature, AND do it over an extended period of time (as some problems occur only when a device is cold, and some problems occur only when a device is warm). So a refurbished unit will likely have limited testing, not absolutely complete testing.

 

[ReUpRo]

Additionally, there is no possible way that it would be cost-effective to test every receiver for every configuration and feature, AND do it over an extended period of time (as some problems occur only when a device is cold, and some problems occur only when a device is warm). So a refurbished unit will likely have limited testing, not absolutely complete testing.

A refurb must have gone through a complete round of testing when it was first manufactured.

Putting on my project delivery hat, I'd expect the refurb to be tested thoroughly around the fix (or fault leading to return) and moderately around features associated to the fix and minimally for all other functions. If this actually happens, is anyone's guess. For example, if a receiver got returned for a faulty HDMI board will they test the amp section at all?

 

[ReUpRo]

Yeah, you should. He's an audiophile like most of us here on AH, not like typical "dealers". So he likes to help out.

Good on you mate!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

A refurb must have gone through a complete round of testing when it was first manufactured.

Putting on my project delivery hat, I'd expect the refurb to be tested thoroughly around the fix (or fault leading to return) and moderately around features associated to the fix and minimally for all other functions. If this actually happens, is anyone's guess. For example, if a receiver got returned for a faulty HDMI board will they test the amp section at all?

I sent a refurbished Denon AVR to the NJ factory once because of the HDMI problem. When I got it back and plugged it in, smoke came out of the unit and there was no sound.

So they probably did not check out the amp section or any other section.

 

[Pyrrho]

I sent a refurbished Denon AVR to the NJ factory once because of the HDMI problem. When I got it back and plugged it in, smoke came out of the unit and there was no sound.

So they probably did not check out the amp section or any other section.

I guess you and I are wrong, as that pretty well proves they do a great job thoroughly testing refurbished models.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I guess you and I are wrong, as that pretty well proves they do a great job thoroughly testing refurbished models.

Yeah, and it even came straight from the main repair center in NJ.

I was going to send to a repair center in Dallas (no repair centers in OKC), which would have been cheaper shipping than all the way to NJ. But I figured the main repair center would do a better job.

I guessed wrong.

Luck may have something to do with it. But I've had enough of taking chances like that.

 

[ReUpRo]

I sent a refurbished Denon AVR to the NJ factory once because of the HDMI problem. When I got it back and plugged it in, smoke came out of the unit and there was no sound.

So they probably did not check out the amp section or any other section.

Yeah, it sounds like they didn't even plug it in/power up the unit, to make sure the replacement HDMI board performed as expected.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yeah, it sounds like they didn't even plug it in/power up the unit, to make sure the replacement HDMI board performed as expected.

Those bastards, I tell you. Cost me $50 shipping for nothing!

 

[slipperybidness]

No, it's not.

If an item is simply returned to the store without any issues, it is NOT sold as a REFURBISHED.

If an item is simply returned to the store without any issues, it is sold as an OPEN BOX item, which entitles the buyer to the FULL ORIGINAL MANUFACTURER WARRANTY. So a new Denon with 3 YR warranty that has been simply returned to the store and sold as OPEN BOX will get 3 YR warranty.

It is REFURBISHED only when the item has been shipped back to the REPAIR center to actually REPAIR something DEFECTIVE. The warranty is usually 90 days only.

I have spoken to a few Denon reps regarding this issue of REFURBISHED vs. OPEN BOX.

You should give Denon a call and ask them. I did a few times just to make sure I was getting the same answer.

What I mean is that a lot of people will take items back to the store, tell the store about the "problem", even though the problem is really "operator error"

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

What I mean is that a lot of people will take items back to the store, tell the store about the "problem", even though the problem is really "operator error"

You don't think the store would plug it in to confirm that the $1K+ AVR is actually defective? That's one way to lose money and go out of business.

If I take a $1K AVR back to Best Buy and say it's defective, I guarantee you the Geek Squad will plug it in right there in front of me to confirm.

I took a $90 BD player back to BB b/c it was defective. Surely enough, the Geek Squad plugged it in right in front of me to confirm it was defective.

But I suppose some poor management stores might not even verify.

 

[slipperybidness]

You don't think the store would plug it in to confirm that the $1K+ AVR is actually defective? That's one way to lose money and go out of business.

If I take a $1K AVR back to Best Buy and say it's defective, I guarantee you the Geek Squad will plug it in right there in front of me to confirm.

I took a $90 BD player back to BB b/c it was defective. Surely enough, the Geek Squad plugged it in right in front of me to confirm it was defective.

But I suppose some poor management stores might not even verify.

Yeah, but then you have other stores like Walmart that take things back with no questions asked.

 

[RichB]

You don't think the store would plug it in to confirm that the $1K+ AVR is actually defective? That's one way to lose money and go out of business.

If I take a $1K AVR back to Best Buy and say it's defective, I guarantee you the Geek Squad will plug it in right there in front of me to confirm.

I took a $90 BD player back to BB b/c it was defective. Surely enough, the Geek Squad plugged it in right in front of me to confirm it was defective.

But I suppose some poor management stores might not even verify.

I am not so sure.

If a customer says it is defective, then I think it goes back to the manufacturer for a refund. An open box sale of a product that was reported defective is really bad business and might be unlawful, even if you cannot verify the defect.

- Rich