Voting On Tuesday ?

[Halon451]

You are suggesting that the war is an attempt to eradicate Islam by force? Come on, not even the Shrub is stupid enough to imagine that that is possible. No, the war has never been about anything other than oil.

Oh boy, here we go...

 

[stratman]

The logic of it all................

 

[Joe Schmoe]

There's no doubt in my mind brother. It's remarkable how soon we all forget here, 7 years after 9/11, as so many want to pack it in and run with our tails between our legs. Our forefathers are surely turning in their graves.

Attacking the entire country of Iraq because of the actions of a small terrorist group makes about as much sense as someone attacking the US because of the actions of some local militia. Why was there not a surgical strike targeting those responsible, instead?

 

[Halon451]

Attacking the entire country of Iraq because of the actions of a small terrorist group makes about as much sense as someone attacking the US because of the actions of some local militia. Why was there not a surgical strike targeting those responsible, instead?

I don't know Joe, why didn't they?

 

[stratman]

Attacking the entire country of Iraq because of the actions of a small terrorist group makes about as much sense as someone attacking the US because of the actions of some local militia. Why was there not a surgical strike targeting those responsible, instead?

Joe you do understand that Al Qaeda and other militant groups don't exactly have addresses, they're not an official government with a mailing address or offices, these animals are rodents, you can't do a surgical strike when there's nothing to strike at, these matters require boots on the ground.

 

[Halon451]

Joe, what's your position going to be when Iran starts stockpiling nuclear weapons? Are you that obscenely naive? Man, put down the Michael Moore propaganda and wake up to what's really going on here, please. You can bash Bush all you want to my friend, but remember this: it took a military and huge sacrifice and loss of life to grant you the right to do so.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

You can bash Bush all you want to my friend, but remember this: it took a military and huge sacrifice and loss of life to grant you the right to do so.

Back during the last war that it made any sense for the US to be involved in at all, namely WWII, that was true.

 

[Halon451]

Joe you do understand that Al Qaeda and other militant groups don't exactly have addresses, they're not an official government with a mailing address or offices, these animals are rodents, you can't do a surgical strike when there's nothing to strike at, these matters require boots on the ground.

Absolutely - this is the new face of warfare, not clearly defined WWII era front lines and trenches. As "The Shrub" as you so eloquently put it, declared shortly after 9/11, that we would go after terrorists and those who harbor them. At the time, it was hard to find a soul who didn't readily and whole-heartedly agree.

So what's changed? We're still fighting the same battle, friend. We're having to make up rules as we go along, because this type of warfare doesn't have a history to pull from. Our enemy is not sovereign, but they take refuge in sovereign areas. So far, we've upset the balance in both Afghanistan and in Iraq, both of which were led by maniacal terrorists in their own right, either by Saddam Hussein or by the Taliban - and have worked very hard to eliminate these areas as a breeding ground for the ones who might otherwise plant a bomb at a mall near YOU one day. Think about this.

Let me guess;

You've probably never served in the military. Do you vote? What have you done, personally to further our nation's endeavors? What have you contributed to our nation's welfare Joe? Anything? I'm curious!

I'm just saying, if you hate it so much, what have you done to fix the problems as you see it?

EDIT: I quoted you Strat, because I wanted to echo your thoughts, my response was for Joe - I'm sure you got that.

 

[masak_aer]

I had fun reading this thread only to page 3 where it degrades to just another thread on war and Bush.... Can we spare that topic please? We have many threads about that already..

Thanks.

 

[Halon451]

Back during the last war that it made any sense for the US to be involved in at all, namely WWII, that was true.

Is that even a coherent sentence? Listen Joe, I'm going to afford you the benefit of the doubt, lay down any hostilities, and challenge you to a real, intelligent debate here. First off though, I would like you to answer my previous questions.

 

[Halon451]

I had fun reading this thread only to page 3 where it degrades to just another thread on war and Bush.... Can we spare that topic please? We have many threads about that already..

Thanks.

Well, I do agree masak - except anytime someone mentions the word politics on this forum, Joe Schmoe sees it as an opportunity to trash-talk George Bush and the military. I won't stand for it. I had fun just casually discussing the Florida elections with the rest of the guys.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

You've probably never served in the military. Do you vote?

No, I was too young for one war and too old for the next one. My father, who served in Korea, feels exactly the same as I do, however. Yes, I vote against Republicans. I contribute to this country as much as any working stiff, by doing my job well.

 

[masak_aer]

Well, I do agree masak - except anytime someone mentions the word politics on this forum, Joe Schmoe sees it as an opportunity to trash-talk George Bush and the military. I won't stand for it. I had fun just casually discussing the Florida elections with the rest of the guys.

No, I was too young for one war and too old for the next one. My father, who served in Korea, feels exactly the same as I do, however. Yes, I vote against Republicans. I contribute to this country as much as any working stiff, by doing my job well.

Can we just stop there and agree to disagree on this one? That would be much better...well, the backyard is always an option but i guess Highfi is doing something there...

 

[Rickster71]

Let's start by dramatically slashing the military budget, which is where most of the money is wasted.

You are suggesting that the war is an attempt to eradicate Islam by force? Come on, not even the Shrub is stupid enough to imagine that that is possible. No, the war has never been about anything other than oil.

Oh, I see we've switched gears, from one brand of convoluted logic to the next.

 

[Halon451]

No, I was too young for one war and too old for the next one. My father, who served in Korea, feels exactly the same as I do, however. Yes, I vote against Republicans. I contribute to this country as much as any working stiff, by doing my job well.

So, do you vote against Republicans just for the sake of voting against Republicans, or do you actually examine the issues and determine the best candidate? I wasn't trying to imply that one has to serve in the military in order to be patriotic either, just trying to get a sense of where you're coming from. I joined the military before 9/11 when there was no war going on, and my ship was first on the scene when we went into Iraq in 2003. To afford you this much information - my father-in-law also served in the military, in Vietnam and he shares a lot of your views (trust me, we "discuss" things all the time )

What I can't understand is the pacifist mentality that prevails amongst the Democrats of this country. Like I mentioned, I'm neither red nor blue, but I do feel that our days are numbered as soon as we begin to exhibit weakness amid the global community. Yes, in an ideal world, war would not have to exist, and we could all live peacefully, holding hands and planting flowers. But until that day arrives, it's a simple matter of survival and the continuation of our freedoms that so many (seemingly yourself) take for granted. It is not. Our freedom is something we will always have to be ready to fight for.

Oil? If you think for a second that our interest in oil is over-rated and that we shouldn't be involved in any conflicts because of it, then feel free to visit any third world country in the world - then envision those conditions here, because that is exactly what would happen. Oil, unfortunately, is part of the overall equation, and is an undeniable, complicated component of our nation's welfare, like it or not. Oil is a natural resource, and legions of armies have fought over natural resources since the first caveman clubbed a rival tribe member over the best pond in the hills. (yes Strat, that's a tip of the hat in your direction ) So, formulate an alternative for resource sharing on a global scale that would benefit everyone, and the mathematics of it are impossible, because of humanity's oil dependency, and it's ever-shrinking reserves, therefore making war an inevitable consequence of a problem that mankind created long before any of us were around.

But - this is not merely a war for oil. It is a war on terror, and that objective remains true and focused, despite what the liberal media outlets such as CNN would have you believe.

 

[Halon451]

And to clarify - we're not attempting to eradicate Islam by force. That is preposterous. Islam is a religion that is practiced by many peace loving individuals around the world. Haven't we covered this before?

No, our intent is to eradicate terrorism, yes - by force - on their soil before we have to do it on ours.

 

[Highlander]

I...don't understand the mindset of those that oppose the military...It's like a deer mesmerized by car lights...

They would say the same about you.

If you think for a second that our interest in oil is over-rated and that we shouldn't be involved in any conflicts because of it, then feel free to visit any third world country in the world - then envision those conditions here, because that is exactly what would happen.

Are you arguing that if oil was the reason for going to war, that going to war would be justified?

...our intent is to eradicate terrorism...

Do you consider this achievable? Is the world a safer place today than it was only a few years ago?

 

[Halon451]

Are you arguing that if oil was the reason for going to war, that going to war would be justified?

Well, if you re-read my post, I wasn't arguing that oil was the reason we went to war, but oil interests in the region cannot be ignored.

Do you consider this achievable? Is the world a safer place today than it was only a few years ago?

I don't know about the rest of the world, but we haven't been attacked on our soil since 9/11. To me, that means we're doing something right. When has the world ever been a safe place? War has existed for ages. We had our backs turned on 9/11, much as we did when Pearl Harbor was attacked. That's what happens when we don't reach out and attempt to stop the problem before it reaches us.

 

[Halon451]

For the record, the argument ends here. No sense in continuing to throw rocks, everyone gets bruised.

 

[Highlander]

Well, if you re-read my post, I wasn't arguing that oil was the reason we went to war, but oil interests in the region cannot be ignored.

I did read your post and I am well aware you do not believe that oil was the reason America went to war. The above quote does not answer the question.

I don't know about the rest of the world, but we haven't been attacked on our soil since 9/11.

When was America last attacked prior to 9/11?

...the argument ends here. No sense in continuing to throw rocks...

There are no rocks being thrown by me.