Tales From the Rabbit Hole

[KEW]

Nice windfall!

A 1st world problem to be sure, but a tough one!

Some misc comments:

Different speakers
I would not change to another speaker without first having the opportunity to compare them with yours in the same room (unless you can live with the return policy).
You might peruse through this thread and see if there is something interesting close by:
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-speakers/1354492-i-ll-demo-my-speakers-other-enthusiasts-thread.html
Many of us would enjoy someone bringing over some quality speakers and comparing them against what we have.
If you have a BestBuy with Magnolia Room nearby, you might see if they have a pair of Martin-Logans from their motion series. I heard the model 20 and thought they sounded pretty good for something from BestBuy. I think you can do better buying Philharmonic or Salk, but it is always good to listen to good speakers and see if you notice good or bad vs your own. Of course you should check out their electrostatics while you are there!

Ultras
Sticking with your Ultras may be the best course of action. It is hard to find fault with them and they look great in your setup.
However, I would look at the towers (via free 45 day trial) with a very skeptical eye. $2000 for a pair of towers is kind of on the threshold of eliminating the resonances in the larger box. Their description includes lots of good things - FEA design, bracing, separate chambers, thick walls; but the proof is in the sound. I like to use Steely Dan for checking coloration because they are so tight in the mid-upper bass range that the coloration comes off as sloppy compared to a BS (however the coloration can sound very rich and full on something like Hotel California - so personal opinion is important as well)!
Also note that the mids are in sealed chambers. So they might not sound as much like the Ultra BSs as you expect. Give them a careful listen before deciding to move from the BS to towers. On less expensive towers, I almost always detect some coloration in the mid-upper bass.
If you try the towers... for music, try them w/o the subwoofers. With a 28Hz low end and a little room gain, you won't need subs for (typical) music.

Salk vs Philharmonic
Definitely the right place to be looking! If you identify a couple of considerations, contact Dennis Murphy to discuss. He is, of course, familiar with both and will give you straight answers on either. My opinion is you cannot find better value than Philharmonic. Value is what Dennis is about! However, if you start looking at custom furniture grade finishes on your Philharmonic speakers, the Salk speakers get much more competitive. If you have read many of Murphy's posts, I think you realize that he will not put his own sales ahead of Salks, nor will he put Salk's sales ahead of his own. I believe he will put your objectives as best you explain them ahead of either. I think he is pretty idealistic about really just wanting to help people find their best "happy-audio-place"!

Amp
Tough call on the Monolith! IIRC, the extra channels cost about $100 a piece after the first 2 or 3. Knowing I'm in for life, I think I'd have to get the 7 channel (at least 5). Remember, if you get extra channels but only use 3, just use the two end and central channel modules in the amp so the heat is spread out. (you might also want to run some outdoor speakers out to the deck or add a pair in an adjacent room).
The Monolith is hard to pass up with it's ATI heritage and top notch performance, it is definitely a value leader! It is an amp that you would probably never consider upgrading from
Stepping down the cost, the best value is the $600 Outlaw 5000.
If you scroll down to the chart just above the "Ground Analysis and FFT..." you'll see it produces 170 WRMS into 2 channels at 8 ohms and 240 into 4 Ohms and 135WRMS with all 5 channels driven!
http://www.audioholics.com/amplifier-reviews/outlaw-5000/measurements
My point is that even though it is a 5 channel amp, for $600, it competes well with any $600 two channel amp and gives you the flexibility of 3 additional channels. If you end up looking at the Monolith as pricing you out of the speakers you want, you might consider the Outlaw as a more cost effective way to off-load the Marantz.
The most cost effective solution (depending on how hard you drive it) is probably to put the "Eco" mode of your Marantz on "Auto". Between that and the cooler, I think you will have a very cool (and long) running AVR!

That is the long of it, but $3000 will buy you a pair of Philharmonic BMR and a "less endowed" version of the Monolith. I would try hard to make the effort to listen to the BMR's. Dennis may know a buyer in your area who will let you listen to them and bring your Ultras to compare.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Hmm... I could set a lower crossover point and let the Hsu's handle from maybe 40-60hz and down instead of 80. I'm sure whatever amp and woofer SVS has in there it's got to be good clean bass. Would that be like using the bass section of the tower as a mid bass module?

Actually the ultra towers are not powered, but do have dual 8's. And of course you do have bad a$$ subs, but from 80-160hz (where the dual 8's handle) I think the towers would give a better experience than the UBS. We've covered other brands too, so I'll leave you with that tidbit.

 

[shadyJ]

I wouldn't be so quick to spend your extra money. The things you are talking about purchasing may only bring you a very modest improvement in sound. The amp is not going to help the sound, but what it will do is take heat out of your AVR and thereby extend the AVR lifetime and long-term reliability. If that is something you are interested in, I would be looking at something like these. You can buy them as you scale your system, and they do not weigh a ton like a single giant multichannel amp. Remember you would need a heavy-duty equipment rack for a 90 lbs amp. Separate amps can have better cooling and are easier to deal with if something goes wrong.

For a multi-channel amp, remember that you will never be touching that 200 watt per channel capacity. You can save money and go down to maybe 150 watts or 120 watts and never know the difference.

As for Ultra towers, if you are not pushing your speakers hard right now, there is no point in getting the towers. Their only advantage is more headroom. You could increase your headroom right now, by the way, by simply using a higher crossover frequency for the subs. They should be good for it up to 200 Hz. And with your speaker layout, they shouldn't be very localized with a higher crossover frequency. The Ultras Towers cross over from their mids to their bass drivers at 160 Hz, but guess what, the Hsu subs can also do 160 Hz with no problem.

Your present system looks very good. If I were you, I would just enjoy it, maybe get an amplifier to alleviate the AVR amp. Use the money to something else that you enjoy. But here is one idea if you are determined to use it for a sound system: do you have room for a near-field sub?

 

[Pogre]

It's not a need thing at this point. It's a want thing. I've wanted a badass amplifier since I was a teenager. I've never owned one. We're talking the culmination of a childhood dream! Right now I can actually afford it and I'm ready to pull the trigger. I've considered the necessity of heavier system rack as well.

Ultras
Sticking with your Ultras may be the best course of action. It is hard to find fault with them and they look great in your setup.
However, I would look at the towers (via free 45 day trial) with a very skeptical eye. $2000 for a pair of towers is kind of on the threshold of eliminating the resonances in the larger box. Their description includes lots of good things - FEA design, bracing, separate chambers, thick walls; but the proof is in the sound. I like to use Steely Dan for checking coloration because they are so tight in the mid-upper bass range that the coloration comes off as sloppy compared to a BS (however the coloration can sound very rich and full on something like Hotel California - so personal opinion is important as well)!
Also note that the mids are in sealed chambers. So they might not sound as much like the Ultra BSs as you expect. Give them a careful listen before deciding to move from the BS to towers. On less expensive towers, I almost always detect some coloration in the mid-upper bass.
If you try the towers... for music, try them w/o the subwoofers. With a 28Hz low end and a little room gain, you won't need subs for (typical) music.

This is a very attractive option to me. I'm pretty well invested in SVS at this point and the towers would really complete my system nicely. There are 2 schools of thought on this move, both camps are populated with people here who's opinions I value. If I'm not blown away, or at least impressed with the towers I do have the option to return. I can order those first, try them out, then determine which amp I can get. I think this is going to come down to a 3 channel amp with the towers, or the 7 channel amp by itself.

 

[Pogre]

I have an opportunity to buy a Pioneer Spec 2 amplifier. I was actually storing it for a while for a friend. I never actually used it. I know it's very heavy and looks high quality. Is anyone familiar with it? I might be able to get it for a couple hundred bucks. Maybe less. I really know nothing about it. I'm gonna start looking it up now.

*Edit: he has the Pioneer SPEC 1 preamp and Pioneer SPEC 2 amplifier. He will sell them both to me for $500.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Hey. Ask him if you can hook it up. It looks cool. My limited search thus far shows it's from 1976. The only thing immediately I can think of is it might need caps, or have dirty pots. Otherwise it's worth a spin for sure. Vintage pioneer on those ultras should sound great.

 

[Pogre]

Okay, this is vintage equipment. It's a 250WPC at 8 ohm amplifier. the prices I'm seeing when I look this up are very encouraging!

 

[Pogre]

Hey. Ask him if you can hook it up. It looks cool. My limited search thus far shows it's from 1976. The only thing immediately I can think of is it might need caps, or have dirty pots. Otherwise it's worth a spin for sure. Vintage pioneer on those ultras should sound great.

Yeah, he'll let me hook it up and test it. You mentioning caps and dirty pots makes me a little nervous. I don't wanna buy something with 500,000 miles on it and have to constantly be sending it off for repairs. I'm seeing prices on ebay that make me think I could make a profit on these at the least. He has the matching tuner too.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Hmmmm very interesting. Even IF it needed a few parts, they're pretty cheap usually. Harder part is finding someone to repair them. Unless you can solder, and are comfortable with that, you could do it yourself. You'll know right away if the pots are bad as soon as you turn the knobs. Heck, if he wouldn't care/know a profit sounds even better. Emotivas look nice in a rack too!!!

 

[Pogre]

Man, I need to look a little more about these. The preamp by itself is listed for ~ $1000 on ebay by a couple different sellers. I could sell it, keep the amp and make a profit. These things appear to have held their value.

 

[Pogre]

Sounds like this thing has serious power. I know he's has it in storage at least 15 years. Probably longer.

*Edit: It's a class A amplifier. This thing looks pretty badass. it's also 35-40 years old and class A amps run really hot, don't they? I might want to pass on it.

 

[Pogre]

Okay, from my research, if this amp is in good shape, it's totally worth his asking price (preamp included) of $500. It appears the combo might be worth quite a bit more. I'd try to get just the amp, but if he sells them, he wants to sell it all together (he might even throw in the matching tuner). He'll have no problem letting me hook it up to my receiver to test it out.

I think my only hesitation is, AFAIK it's never been serviced and it's around 40 years old. I would say a good 20 years of that was most likely spent in storage. I stored it here in my house for at least ten years while he was in jail... friend of a friend, long story. He got out and I gave his equipment back. I don't think he's ever hooked it back up. The speakers he had with it were an old pair of big ass Fisher speakers. The surrounds were all dry rotted and he probably recycled them by now. IIRC the amp in great shape. The VU meters still work and I don't think it even has any scratches on it.

If I take him up on it, assuming it sounds great, am I looking at a failure in the near future and a restoration? I'd rather just get the Monolith and start off brand new, but if this amp is a gem (they appear to have not lost their value much in the last 4 decades) and highly sought after I'll get it instead and save some money. How long do the caps and all the other stuff last in an amplifier?

*Edit: Here's a pic of the tuner. I'm pretty sure if he's not already meaning too, he'll throw that in with the deal too.

That's not the actual tuner, but that's an accurate pic of it.

 

[Gryph]

I personally wouldn't buy it to incorporate the amp into your new system, but I'd test everything and if good probably buy the 3 pieces and see if I fell in love with them.
If no love, or no space for another system, I'd flip it for a nice profit down the road as there's obviously a demand and they aren't making anymore of em.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Pogre]

I just found these on ebay.
Click
Click
That'd be a $400 savings for the pair. Authorized dealer with lots of transactions and a 99.9% seller's rating. Plus I've bought from them before. When purchased through an authorized dealer I believe SVS will honor the 5 year warranty. They did for one of my subs that I bought on ebay a while back.

Just looking for some opinions. This is a pretty smoking deal being that I was considering spending $2000. I can get these for $1600.

 

[Pogre]

I personally wouldn't buy it to incorporate the amp into your new system, but I'd test everything and if good probably buy the 3 pieces and see if I fell in love with them.
If no love, or no space for another system, I'd flip it for a nice profit down the road as there's obviously a demand and they aren't making anymore of em.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I might do just that. I keep looking at the pics and it wouldn't really look right with the rest of my modern equipment. I may still buy them and try to flip for a profit. I didn't see what they're actually selling for, but the preamp by itself is listed a few times on ebay for ~$1000. I might be able to pay for my speakers with the profit if I get the right money!

I've pretty much got my heart set on the Monolith and Ultra towers. If I get the speakers I linked above, I can get more than a 3 channel amp. Might even be able to swing the 7 channel. @KEW said it's one of those amps that I'll be very unlikely to upgrade from and he's been a big help to me with my current system. I plan to keep it a long time. I don't think I could say that about the pioneer. It's going to need serviced sooner or later. Probably sooner.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I agree pogre. I don't think the pioneer is a long term solution, but since it's in your possession, it's easy to play with. It seems like it was a great amp and might give you an idea of what an outboard amp will be like.

 

[Gryph]

I might do just that. I keep looking at the pics and it wouldn't really look right with the rest of my modern equipment. I may still buy them and try to flip for a profit. I didn't see what they're actually selling for, but the preamp by itself is listed a few times on ebay for ~$1000. I might be able to pay for my speakers with the profit if I get the right money!

I've pretty much got my heart set on the Monolith and Ultra towers. If I get the speakers I linked above, I can get more than a 3 channel amp. Might even be able to swing the 7 channel. @KEW said it's one of those amps that I'll be very unlikely to upgrade from and he's been a big help to me with my current system. I plan to keep it a long time. I don't think I could say that about the pioneer. It's going to need serviced sooner or later. Probably sooner.

I wouldn't spend that money for anything less than the Monolith-5 and I'd rather get the Monolith-7 if I could swing it and just run the 5 channels to extend it's life.

The Ultra towers should fit your system nicely as it will be easy enough to move the Ultra BS to surround position and complete your 5.2 setup.

 

[panteragstk]

I might do just that. I keep looking at the pics and it wouldn't really look right with the rest of my modern equipment. I may still buy them and try to flip for a profit. I didn't see what they're actually selling for, but the preamp by itself is listed a few times on ebay for ~$1000. I might be able to pay for my speakers with the profit if I get the right money!

I've pretty much got my heart set on the Monolith and Ultra towers. If I get the speakers I linked above, I can get more than a 3 channel amp. Might even be able to swing the 7 channel. @KEW said it's one of those amps that I'll be very unlikely to upgrade from and he's been a big help to me with my current system. I plan to keep it a long time. I don't think I could say that about the pioneer. It's going to need serviced sooner or later. Probably sooner.

Sounds like you've made a decision. I personally think it's the right path unless you want totally change speakers as KEW suggested. The towers may not be a huge improvement, but you'll have your BS as surround so you'll have a very nice 5.2 system now.

 

[Pogre]

I agree pogre. I don't think the pioneer is a long term solution, but since it's in your possession, it's easy to play with. It seems like it was a great amp and might give you an idea of what an outboard amp will be like.

I don't have it here any more. The guy (John) has it sitting and collecting dust. I think he inherited it all from his father. I don't think that it would be too far of a stretch to say that it hasn't been used for 20 years. But yeah, too many question marks. I would want it gone through thoroughly and tested thoroughly before I committed to it. John isn't going to want to do any of that.

 

[Pogre]

Sounds like you've made a decision. I personally think it's the right path unless you want totally change speakers as KEW suggested. The towers may not be a huge improvement, but you'll have your BS as surround so you'll have a very nice 5.2 system now.

What do you think about the speakers I linked? I'm pretty sure that's the direction I'll be going.

*Edit: Why do I always do this crap on weekends? Nobody is available to ask questions about stuff on the weekends!