Tales From the Rabbit Hole

William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
I don't have it here any more. The guy (John) has it sitting and collecting dust. I think he inherited it all from his father. I don't think that it would be too far of a stretch to say that it hasn't been used for 20 years. But yeah, too many question marks. I would want it gone through thoroughly and tested thoroughly before I committed to it. John isn't going to want to do any of that.
Well it still seems like a decent investment/flip opp. If "john" isn't gonna do it he shouldn't care if you do as long as he feels like you paid him a fair price. For basically doing nothing.
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Warlord
What do you think about the speakers I linked? I'm pretty sure that's the direction I'll be going.

*Edit: Why do I always do this crap on weekends? Nobody is available to ask questions about stuff on the weekends!
If you're talking about the ebay link then I'd go for it as long as it is an authorized dealer. Ebay has been very reliable for me so I don't hesitate.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
Vintage gear is a real gamble, not because of the design, but because it is 40 years old and you have little idea how hard it's life has been. A 250 WRMS class A amp would see very high temperatures for sure, but it may have been paired with some pretty efficient speakers.

My best advice is to pull them out. Since the amp is the item you are most interested (and most subject to heat) pop the top and take a close look. This is mostly obvious stuff (I'm no EE) but look for signs of heat: Discoloration, distortion of component surfaces, leakage at the bottoms of the capacitors, etc. Also look for film or residue (the tar from being exposed to heavy smoke which will lower the efficiency of heat removal -we are talking 70's). Vacuum and/or blow out the dust as best you can, then plug them in.
You'll want to take pictures for ebay or for us if there are questionable situations.

I have a vintage unit (Sansui AU-717) which has had more problems resultant from the refurb efforts (some guy north of Knoxville that speciaized in Sansui Refurbs) than the original gear, so if you decide to keep/repair, research this carefully!

I still have mine because we've been through a lot of life together and I tend to personify much of my "stuff". It is sentimental, not functional.

I do not believe the Pioneer can be considered a better design than the ATI built Monolith. I would hope we have learned some things over those years. However, I do not believe the Pioneer would be audibly deficient in any way. I would look for those improvements to translate to better protection circuits and higher reliability of construction (for example, I might guess the thickness of a soldier joint to allow it to flex from heat without breaking has been optimized). ATI has been building the basic Monolith design for at least a decade.

I believe the value of vintage gear is more emotion driven than practical. That amp was made in the "Golden Age of Audio". In 1977, my home town of 100,680 had 4 high-end audio stores. The local Singer (Sewing Machine) store also sold Magnivox, Fischer, Marantz, and Superscope!

Music was being revolutionized by groups like The Beatles, Pink Floyd, ELP, David Bowie, Simon & Garfunkle, Chicago, Beachboys, Yes, Jethro Tull, CSN&Y, Queen, Elton John, etc. (which may have been further promoted by the ready ability to make high quality recordings and play them back at similar quality in interested middle class homes).
It was a perfect storm for music/audio!

For a geeky HS student like me, time spent listening in these stores and collecting literature on these audio marvels was an obsession like later generation's Pokemon cards.

It is easy for me to remember my first listens to high quality speakers of that time as being the "best speakers I have heard in my life"! Are they? Of course not. However, they could be so much better than anything I had commonly heard, that the excitement and experience far surpassed all later experiences!

So think of it as the guy who couldn't afford, but lusted after a 69 Convertible Mustang when he was 18, so later when he has money, he is happy to buy and recondition that wonderful vehicle!

I infer you are younger and the (emotional) value of those vintage units is mostly lost on you, so get out of the way and pass them on to someone who will summon memories of times past and smile every time they see it in their house!

Maybe I am "over-romanticizing" this. Certainly there are many of today's youth that fawn over Vinyl, so there is a group of younger people who also might covet the vintage gear, but unless you are one of them, I say "keep moving, nothing to see here" aka "flip 'em":)
 
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Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Screenshot_2017-06-18-11-22-43-1.png

Screenshot_2017-06-18-11-38-20-1.png


Pulled the trigger! Had to pay shipping for one of them. Still a pretty solid deal. It gives me a couple hundred more toward the amp. I'll be getting the 5 channel at the least.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
Also, Assuming all three components work, it would be a crime to break the amp out from the pre and tuner! For someone who wants these, being able to get the full matching set to pair with their vintage Klipshorns (or whatever) will be a true find!
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Vintage gear is a real gamble, not because of the design, but because it is 40 years old and you have little idea how hard it's life has been. A 250 WRMS class A amp would see very high temperatures for sure, but it may have been paired with some pretty efficient speakers.

My best advice is to pull them out. Since the amp is the item you are most interested (and most subject to heat) pop the top and take a close look. This is mostly obvious stuff (I'm no EE) but look for signs of heat: Discoloration, distortion of component surfaces, leakage at the bottoms of the capacitors, etc. Also look for film or residue (the tar from being exposed to heavy smoke which will lower the efficiency of heat removal -we are talking 70's). Vacuum and/or blow out the dust as best you can, then plug them in.
You'll want to take pictures for ebay or for us if there are questionable situations.

I have a vintage unit (Sansui AU-717) which has had more problems resultant from the refurb efforts (some guy north of Knoxville that speciaized in Sansui Refurbs) than the original gear, so if you decide to keep/repair, research this carefully!

I still have mine because we've been through a lot of life together and I tend to personify much of my "stuff". It is sentimental, not functional.

I do not believe the Pioneer can be considered a better design than the ATI built Monolith. I would hope we have learned some things over those years. However, I do not believe the Pioneer would be audibly deficient in any way. I would look for those improvements to translate to better protection circuits and higher reliability of construction (for example, I might guess the thickness of a soldier joint to allow it to flex from heat without breaking has been optimized). ATI has been building the basic Monolith design for at least a decade.

I believe the value of vintage gear is more emotion driven than practical. That amp was made in the "Golden Age of Audio". In 1977, my home town of 100,680 had 4 high-end audio stores. The local Singer (Sewing Machine) store also sold Magnivox, Fischer, Marantz, and Superscope!

Music was being revolutionized by groups like The Beatles, Pink Floyd, ELP, David Bowie, Simon & Garfunkle, Chicago, Beachboys, Yes, Jethro Tull, CSN&Y, Queen, Elton John, etc. (which may have been further promoted by the ready ability to make high quality recordings and play them back at similar quality in interested middle class homes).
It was a perfect storm for music/audio!

For a geeky HS student like me, time spent listening in these stores and collecting literature on these audio marvels was an obsession like later generation's Pokemon cards.

It is easy for me to remember my first listens to high quality speakers of that time as being the "best speakers I have heard in my life"! Are they? Of course not. However, they could be so much better than anything I had commonly heard, that the excitement and experience far surpassed all later experiences!

So think of it as the guy who couldn't afford, but lusted after a 69 Convertible Mustang when he was 18, so later when he has money, he is happy to buy and recondition that wonderful vehicle!

I infer you are younger and the (emotional) value of those vintage units is mostly lost on you, so get out of the way and pass them on to someone who will summon memories of times past and smile every time they see it in their house!

Maybe I am "over-romanticizing" this. Certainly there are many of today's youth that fawn over Vinyl, so there is a group of younger people who also might covet the vintage gear, but unless you are one of them, I say "keep moving, nothing to see here":)
I'm actually 47 years old, but I get that a lot. I don't look my age and generally don't act it either. I like to have fun. :) I certainly wasn't a teenager in the seventies though! I was born in 1970.

I understand sentimentality, but I'm all digital now. I'm not a big vintage guy to begin with, I've pretty much dismissed the pioneer. As you can see above, I just ordered the towers. I'm going to be moving some money around and doing a little bit of math to decide whether I order Monoprice's five channel or the seven channel amp.

I think I'm almost done. I've been hinting at towers and an amp for the last year. I can't go much further from here unless I want to spend a freaking fortune. Phew!
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
2017-06-18 12.29.53.png


Phew. That's the most money I've spent at once in a very long time. You only live once! Am I reading that right? It'll be here in two days? That's pretty fast!

I used to spend a lot more than this on dirt toys. Many expensive trips and a few broken bones later and I got out of that. Now there's an expensive Hobby.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
When I said "I have permission", apparently she thought I was getting one or the other. Oops...
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
Tapatalk won't let me quote the dirt toy thing but, I used to race MX, and also have a 1st gen Camaro. Get the shovel and start throwing money!!!
Btw, congrats on the towers. I'm actually geeking out waiting for you to try em out! You know how I feel, but I'll add that at the very least, they'll look beautiful and I can't wait to hear what you think. Nice job buddy.
 
Gryph

Gryph

Audioholic
Congrats, I'm sure the new power amp and tower speakers will serve you well for a very long time.
Since you aren't going to tie up any money in the classic gear you should point your friend towards eBay and perhaps make a few people happy in the bargain.

I'm only a couple years older and grew up with my dad's HIFI system. Klipschorns, tube amps, reel to reel and phonograph, then later one of those big silver stereo receivers that made life easy, so I definitely understand the nostalgia part, all good memories.
I've long since moved those monstrous Klipschorns along for someone else to love in favor of much smaller speakers that both fit and work in my current space.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Tapatalk won't let me quote the dirt toy thing but, I used to race MX, and also have a 1st gen Camaro. Get the shovel and start throwing money!!!
Btw, congrats on the towers. I'm actually geeking out waiting for you to try em out! You know how I feel, but I'll add that at the very least, they'll look beautiful and I can't wait to hear what you think. Nice job buddy.
I'm really excited to hear them myself. I've always been camp bookshelf with a pair of subs, but I did leave a caveat in there... Only if it's a compromise for quality. Towers from the same line are perfectly acceptable in my book. :cool:
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Lmao!
A full body massage might help fix that.
I already said "well they're both ordered now. I'm getting both". Dude, I might have gone a little too far this time. She's kinda pissed. We've been married 19 years though... she'll get over it. Eventually... :eek:

Might be a rough couple of weeks, but our marriage is strong. lol. My thinking is, how often am I gonna have the money for something like this? I can be happy going to the grave with this system. I may expand and buy a few more speakers, but nothing like what I just spent. I really think I'm set for electronics and speakers all the way around now.
Congrats, I'm sure the new power amp and tower speakers will serve you well for a very long time.
Since you aren't going to tie up any money in the classic gear you should point your friend towards eBay and perhaps make a few people happy in the bargain.

I'm only a couple years older and grew up with my dad's HIFI system. Klipschorns, tube amps, reel to reel and phonograph, then later one of those big silver stereo receivers that made life easy, so I definitely understand the nostalgia part, all good memories.
I've long since moved those monstrous Klipschorns along for someone else to love in favor of much smaller speakers that both fit and work in my current space.
I did exactly that. I told him his equipment might be worth a whole lot more than he thought. He's not so interested in selling now. I have nothing against inherited "legacy" vintage equipment. Some of it (like my buddy's amp) is really good stuff. If I had that amp I probably wouldn't have bought the Monolith.

However, my whole system is all digital and modern. It would have looked a little odd (though I'd have found a way to make it work) with the rest of my stuff.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
Iirc, she responds to getting toys too. Maybe a few precious moments dolls? Jk. I'm sure there's something she wants. Right?
 
Gryph

Gryph

Audioholic
I'm really excited to hear them myself. I've always been camp bookshelf with a pair of subs, but I did leave a caveat in there... Only if it's a compromise for quality. Towers from the same line are perfectly acceptable in my book. :cool:

For near field stereo I'm more then happy with a BS and SW setup.
For a larger HT room like you have there, you'll probably love the towers up front in your system.

Glad to see you popped for the 7 channel amp. It's always easier to ask for forgiveness then to ask for permission.

Will be interesting to see how all the FR tables look with the new towers as compared to the BS. Would be curious to see what changes you might see if you just substitute the towers for BS without amp or surrounds.

Enjoy!
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
For near field stereo I'm more then happy with a BS and SW setup.
For a larger HT room like you have there, you'll probably love the towers up front in your system.

Glad to see you popped for the 7 channel amp. It's always easier to ask for forgiveness then to ask for permission.

Will be interesting to see how all the FR tables look with the new towers as compared to the BS. Would be curious to see what changes you might see if you just substitute the towers for BS without amp or surrounds.

Enjoy!
I was gonna get the 5 channel amp, then just decided f*ck it. It's only a hundred more for the 7 channel amp and I'm already this deep in, I might as well go for it. I don't like wondering "what if" or "I should have" down the road.
 
Gryph

Gryph

Audioholic
I was gonna get the 5 channel amp, then just decided f*ck it. It's only a hundred more for the 7 channel amp and I'm already this deep in, I might as well go for it. I don't like wondering "what if" or "I should have" down the road.
Exactly, you only live once and those extra 4 channels are pretty darn cheap when you're already dropping a grand on 3 channels.
I'd say you are pretty much good to go for the foreseeable future.
Just a bit of setup and tuning then sit back and enjoy for a good while. Down the road a top shelf pre/pro to replace an aging receiver and your good for another 20 years ;)
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Exactly, you only live once and those extra 4 channels are pretty darn cheap when you're already dropping a grand on 3 channels.
I'd say you are pretty much good to go for the foreseeable future.
Just a bit of setup and tuning then sit back and enjoy for a good while. Down the road a top shelf pre/pro to replace an aging receiver and your good for another 20 years ;)
Exactly, right back at you. That's what I'm going for with all this. The only thing I would need from here out would be maybe a couple of satellites or possibly in ceiling for Atmos or something, but music is what I listen to the most and I'm definitely set for that now. I'm in this setup for the long haul. The tower is what clinches it for me. I'm sticking with the SVS Ultra line. My style of music is a little on the heavy metal side and I have some hearing loss, so I actually really like aluminum dome tweeters on my Ultra bookshelves. They use the same one in the towers, so I've basically already heard them.
 
2

2channel lover

Audioholic Field Marshall
Pogre
I am glad that the ball bounced your way this time with a nice unexpected pot o gold. That makes me feel good about shopping at your old employer even more and good about what you have the opportunity to do.

If you truly want audio upgrades, I can only wish you the best of luck in finding something that scratches that upgrade itch. I understand how irrational the itch can be. One minute you're happy with your system and the next minute up jumps the itchy and scratchy of upgraditis.

I can't add much to this discussion because I want you to be happy with what you choose and my list of things I know a lot about isn't very lengthy. Jim Salk tells me that he will be shipping my Songtowers to me next week. Hopefully by this time next weekend I will be unpacking a new set of curly cherry wonder kids. I believe another AH member just ordered a set and Jim told him "Thanksgiving'ish" for delivery. If you had a thought about Salk Songtowers, you'd have to factor in 5 months of patience as well.

Window shopping can be a fun part of the process. Enjoy !
Good to hear your STs are shipping next week!!!

That might have been me. Jim said 100 to 120 when I ordered. Just based your experience I'm thinking 120 days which would be the end of Sept. Tack on another 3-4 weeks I figure mid/late Oct. delivery....that's pretty much Thanksgivingish.
 
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