Sub Recommendations

[FirstReflection]

I just got an email from FedEx. My sub has been delivered and is currently sitting in my living room for me to tinker with for the rest of the day.

Ooh, you're gonna have some fun!

After your initial, "pop in some music and make sure the sub works!" phase, try out the "crawling for bass" trick. If you've got a DVD or Blu-ray that is THX Certified, just go into the THX Optimizer setup menu. The last test in the Audio section is a bass sweep from 200Hz down to 20Hz. Put that chapter on repeat while you "duck walk"

You might also want to try the "crawling for bass" technique in two ways. First, try it with your speakers disconnected - ie. only the sub playing, no other speakers. Then try it again with your speakers connected. You'll be able to observe how having the speakers in the mix - producing some bass of their own - affects the sound. It'll also let you hear what the sub is doing all on its own, which is a good thing to hear! Sometimes people get some bass problems and blame it all on the sub, when the real culprits are their speakers, or the way the speakers, sub and room are interacting.

 

[NDyse10]

Ooh, you're gonna have some fun!

After your initial, "pop in some music and make sure the sub works!" phase, try out the "crawling for bass" trick. If you've got a DVD or Blu-ray that is THX Certified, just go into the THX Optimizer setup menu. The last test in the Audio section is a bass sweep from 200Hz down to 20Hz. Put that chapter on repeat while you "duck walk"

You might also want to try the "crawling for bass" technique in two ways. First, try it with your speakers disconnected - ie. only the sub playing, no other speakers. Then try it again with your speakers connected. You'll be able to observe how having the speakers in the mix - producing some bass of their own - affects the sound. It'll also let you hear what the sub is doing all on its own, which is a good thing to hear! Sometimes people get some bass problems and blame it all on the sub, when the real culprits are their speakers, or the way the speakers, sub and room are interacting.

Do you have any other tips or tricks on the correct settings for the dials on the back of the sub? I ran Audyssey and it didn't seem to do much?

How do I find out if I have a blu-ray or dvd that is THX certified and where would that setup menu be?

 

[timoteo]

Great choice & Congradulations!!!

The sub wont sound its best right out of the box. So dont do any critical listening until its been used for at least 30-40hrs. The break in period will reveal a noticable audible improvement. Then recalibrate after that period. This is common with all new subs!

Your going to enjoy that sub!!!

 

[FirstReflection]

The PB12-NSD is a pretty easy sub to set up since it doesn't have a ton of control options.

Just set the "phase" knob to "zero degrees", set the "cross-over" knob to its highest possible setting, and start with the volume knob at about half way.

After you run Audyssey, go back into the settings and manually make sure that your speakers are all set to "small" with an 80Hz cross-over frequency and that the subwoofer is set to "on". You might notice that Audyssey set the distance for your subwoofer to something other than its real, physical distance from your seat. That's ok. Leave it alone. The "distance" setting is just another way of adjusting the "phase". If you were to turn the "phase" knob on the subwoofer itself to some other position and run Audyssey again, you'd find that Audyssey would select a new "distance" - likely one that does not match the actual, physical distance again. All the "phase" and "distance" do is try to adjust things so that sounds from your subwoofer arrive at the seat at the same time as sounds from the speakers. So just leave your subwoofer's knob at zero degrees and let Audyssey adjust using its "distance" setting since it usually does a pretty good job with that

The cross-over is being handled by the receiver, so that is why you put the subwoofer's cross-over knob to its highest setting. Basically, you're just getting the subwoofer's own filter "out of the way" and letting the receiver handle the cross-over, which is the way it's meant to work with modern receivers.

When your receiver's Audyssey program adjusts the "trim" levels - the individual volume settings for each speaker and your subwoofer - you want it to end up with something in the range of -3dB to 0dB. If you've run Audyssey and see that the trim level setting for your subwoofer is outside of this range, you'll want to adjust the volume knob on the subwoofer itself and run Audyssey again. For example, if Audyssey has set the subwoofer's trim level to "+5dB", it means the sub is too quiet and you should turn the volume dial on the sub itself up by a couple of steps. If the Audyssey trim level for the sub is at -7dB or something, then it means your subwoofer is too loud and you should turn the volume dial on your sub down a couple of steps.

You want that trim level in the -3dB to 0dB range so that the signal coming from the subwoofer is strong, but not artificially boosted. If the signal has been trimmed to below -3dB, there's a good chance it won't be strong enough to make your subwoofer turn on automatically if you use the "auto" power setting on the sub. And if the trim level is above 0dB, it's sending a signal that is higher than reference level, so you can sometimes lose a bit of headroom in the bass that way.

As for the THX DVD or Blu-ray, just look on the cover. If you see a THX logo on the front or the back cover, then it is a THX Certified disc. When you go into the main menu, you should be able to find the THX Optimizer. You might have to dig a little bit - it's sometimes burried in the "Settings" menu or positioned off to the side. But once you find the THX Optimizer, go ahead and run through that. There is a Video setup portion and an Audio setup portion. The last test in the Audio portion is the 200Hz to 20Hz sweep

 

[NDyse10]

The PB12-NSD is a pretty easy sub to set up since it doesn't have a ton of control options.

Just set the "phase" knob to "zero degrees", set the "cross-over" knob to its highest possible setting, and start with the volume knob at about half way.

After you run Audyssey, go back into the settings and manually make sure that your speakers are all set to "small" with an 80Hz cross-over frequency and that the subwoofer is set to "on". You might notice that Audyssey set the distance for your subwoofer to something other than its real, physical distance from your seat. That's ok. Leave it alone. The "distance" setting is just another way of adjusting the "phase". If you were to turn the "phase" knob on the subwoofer itself to some other position and run Audyssey again, you'd find that Audyssey would select a new "distance" - likely one that does not match the actual, physical distance again. All the "phase" and "distance" do is try to adjust things so that sounds from your subwoofer arrive at the seat at the same time as sounds from the speakers. So just leave your subwoofer's knob at zero degrees and let Audyssey adjust using its "distance" setting since it usually does a pretty good job with that

The cross-over is being handled by the receiver, so that is why you put the subwoofer's cross-over knob to its highest setting. Basically, you're just getting the subwoofer's own filter "out of the way" and letting the receiver handle the cross-over, which is the way it's meant to work with modern receivers.

When your receiver's Audyssey program adjusts the "trim" levels - the individual volume settings for each speaker and your subwoofer - you want it to end up with something in the range of -3dB to 0dB. If you've run Audyssey and see that the trim level setting for your subwoofer is outside of this range, you'll want to adjust the volume knob on the subwoofer itself and run Audyssey again. For example, if Audyssey has set the subwoofer's trim level to "+5dB", it means the sub is too quiet and you should turn the volume dial on the sub itself up by a couple of steps. If the Audyssey trim level for the sub is at -7dB or something, then it means your subwoofer is too loud and you should turn the volume dial on your sub down a couple of steps.

You want that trim level in the -3dB to 0dB range so that the signal coming from the subwoofer is strong, but not artificially boosted. If the signal has been trimmed to below -3dB, there's a good chance it won't be strong enough to make your subwoofer turn on automatically if you use the "auto" power setting on the sub. And if the trim level is above 0dB, it's sending a signal that is higher than reference level, so you can sometimes lose a bit of headroom in the bass that way.

As for the THX DVD or Blu-ray, just look on the cover. If you see a THX logo on the front or the back cover, then it is a THX Certified disc. When you go into the main menu, you should be able to find the THX Optimizer. You might have to dig a little bit - it's sometimes burried in the "Settings" menu or positioned off to the side. But once you find the THX Optimizer, go ahead and run through that. There is a Video setup portion and an Audio setup portion. The last test in the Audio portion is the 200Hz to 20Hz sweep

I have had some friends over the last few days so I haven't been able to tinker with my new toy nearly as much as I would have liked. I just re-ran Audyssey and these are the numbers I got:

Center -7.0 dB
Subwoofer -15.0 dB
Left -5.0 dB
Right -4.0 dB

Also it gives me numbers of 40hz for the Front and Center. What does that mean?

These numbers don't seem right based off what you just outlined. Am I doing something wrong?

 

[FirstReflection]

Nope, you're not doing anything wrong. It's just Audyssey doing what Audyssey does, which is cool, but often in need of a bit of manual adjustment

First up, if Audyssey is setting your sub to -15dB, it means your sub is way too loud with its own volume dial in its current position. Turn down the volume knob on your sub by about 6 or 7 steps and run Audyssey again. Like I said, you want to get around -3dB to 0dB for your subwoofer's trim setting. With a sub that is capable of playing as loud as the PB12-NSD can, you might have its volume dial way down at only 1/4 or something. That's perfectly fine. You want to get a setting back from Audyssey that is between -3dB and 0 dB.

The speaker settings are fine. They don't have their own amp - and they don't need a strong pre-amp signal for any sort of "auto on" feature or anything. Your current trim settings indicate that you'll have good headroom with your speakers and receiver and that you could use those same speakers and receiver in a larger room with a longer distance from your seat to the speakers in the future, but they are a pretty good distance with good output capabilities in your current setup.

As for the cross-over frequency, this is one area where Audyssey almost always needs some manual adjustment. Basically, Audyssey always tries to make your speakers play as low as they can - which really is not ideal. It will set speakers to "Full range/Large", it will set regular bookshelf speakers to "40Hz" or "60Hz".

I recommend that you go into the manual settings and change all of your speakers to "80Hz". You will want to do this after Audyssey has run and set all of your trim levels and distances for you - again, looking for that -3dB to 0 dB setting for your subwoofer.

Hope that helps!

 

[Hlam]

Subdude Test

My apologies to the original poster for using your thread, but this is where this discussion started.
I received my subdudes a week ago.
I ran two 10 to 100 hertz frequency sweeps at the listening position. One with my subs on the floor and the other with them on the subdudes. My measurements were exactly the same for both sweeps. The subdudes made no measureable difference in my living room.
I played a few music and movie clips. I did not hear any difference in the sound quality at the listening position. The bass did not sound any tighter or any more articulate to me.
I could diffidently feel a difference. There was a lot less vibration felt at the listening position with the subs on the subdudes.
I moved the SPL meter to one of the upstairs bedrooms any played a bass heavy song. With the subs on the subdudes I got a reading of 83dB. With the subs on the floor I got a reading of 89dB. The reading down stairs at the listening position was 105dB with and without the subdudes in use. The 89dB reading was a result of things rattling in the bedroom. The closet door was rattling with the subs on the floor. The door was not rattling with the subs on the subdudes.
My conclusion: IMHO off course.
1. The subdudes did not improve the sound quality of the bass in my room.
2. The subdudes did decouple the subs from the wooden structure of my home.
3. I could have made these myself for a fraction of their cost.