Standmounts $2K, $4K, $6K: Home Audition WaveTouch, Salk Silk, B&W CM5, Totem Element Fire

[jbltmp]

I'm having fun reading these. Personally, I think you can't consider your search adequate until you try out at least a dozen more speakers .

You guys are killing me!

 

[cschang]

I'm having fun reading these. Personally, I think you can't consider your search adequate until you try out at least a dozen more speakers .

...and all the second guessing that comes in between...

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Oh, so NOW you tell me.

Free shipping both ways. Risk free.

HTM/S&V magazine measured the AbsoluteZero's listening window FR to be +/-0.9dB from 100Hz-10kHz. Should be interesting to see how they compare to the other speakers.

 

[zieglj01]

Free shipping both ways. Risk free.
HTM/S&V magazine measured the AbsoluteZero's listening window FR to be +/-0.9dB from 100Hz-10kHz. Should be interesting to see how they compare to the other speakers.

It may be too much pressure to mention things like that - so, I will not mention
that the E60's listening-window response measures +1.25/–0.97 dB from 200 Hz to 10 kHz.

12 speakers may be all that one can handle!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

the E60's listening-window response measures +1.25/–0.97 dB from 200 Hz to 10 kHz.

Really? Was that HTM/S&V ?

I guess I missed that. Can you find the link?

 

[zieglj01]

Really? Was that HTM/S&V ?

I guess I missed that. Can you find the link?

Here you go
Boston Acoustics Reference E Series E70 Speaker System HT Labs Measures | Sound & Vision

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Here you go
Boston Acoustics Reference E Series E70 Speaker System HT Labs Measures | Sound & Vision

Wow. Now I know why you keep recommending Boston.

So the E70 averages +/-2.1dB and the E60 averages +/-1.1dB. Very impressive.

The Klipsch RB-61 II’s ($500/pr) listening-window response (a five-point average of axial and +/–15-degree horizontal and vertical responses) measures +1.27/–2.40 decibels from 200 hertz to 10 kilohertz. The –3-dB point is at 50 Hz, and the –6-dB point is at 45 Hz. Impedance reaches a minimum of 4.82 ohms at 174 Hz and a phase angle of –49.43 degrees at 106 Hz. Sensitivity 90.5dB. Average FR +/-1.84dB.


The NHT Absolute Zero’s ($400/pr) listening-window response (a five-point average of axial and +/–15-degree horizontal and vertical responses) measures +0.94/–0.82 decibels from 200 hertz to 10 kilohertz. The –3-dB point is at 83 Hz, and the –6-dB point is at 72 Hz. Impedance reaches a minimum of 5.19 ohms at 192 Hz and a phase angle of –46.25 degrees at 111 Hz. Sensitivity 85dB. Average FR +/-0.88dB.

The Boston E60's ($1200/pr) listening-window response measures +1.25/–0.97 dB from 200 Hz to 10 kHz. The –3-dB point is at 65 Hz, and the –6-dB point is at 53 Hz. Impedance reaches a minimum of 4.36 ohms at 203 Hz and a phase angle of –58.73 degrees at 111 Hz. Sensitivity 87.5dB. Average FR +/-1.11dB.<O</O

<O</O

 

[cschang]

Can you guys define the "listening window" for HTM/SV?

Are the five points: on axis, and then 15 degrees above and below, and then 15 degrees left and right, at one meter?

 

[zieglj01]

Can you guys define the "listening window" for HTM/SV?

Are the five points: on axis, and then 15 degrees above and below, and then 15 degrees left and right, at one meter?

An article here, and some answers at the bottom of page 2
Speaker Measurements 101 | Sound & Vision

And here - info listening window
http://www.soundandvision.com/content/how-we-test-audio-page-2

 

[cschang]

An article here, and some answers at the bottom of page 2
Speaker Measurements 101 | Sound & Vision

And here - info listening window
How We Test: Audio Page 2 | Sound & Vision

Thanks zieg.

That is too narrow....it won't often be that different than the on-axis measurement. Also, it won't show the advantages of speakers with better off-axis response (greater than 15 degrees).

Soundstage publishes the same measurement, but also shows measurements that are further off-axis. I think Stereophile even goes to 30 degrees horizontal.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

Thanks zieg.

That is too narrow....it won't often be that different than the on-axis measurement. Also, it won't show the advantages of speakers with better off-axis response (greater than 15 degrees).

Soundstage publishes the same measurement, but also shows measurements that are further off-axis. I think Stereophile even goes to 30 degrees horizontal.

I think their "30 degree listening window" is 15 degrees on either side.

 

[cschang]

I think their "30 degree listening window" is 15 degrees on either side.

Thanks for the correction, Dennis. So the "same" and HTM/SV.

At least they have measurements farther off axis like Soundstage.

I never liked how they measure/calculate bass response though. Many people don't the time to understand it, and then get the wrong impression.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

Thanks for the correction, Dennis. So the "same" and HTM/SV.

At least they have measurements farther off axis like Soundstage.

I never liked how they measure/calculate bass response though. Many people don't the time to understand it, and then get the wrong impression.

I certainly agree with you on that. As for wide off-axis measurements, I dunno. This has always been a pet peeve for me. As you well know many speakers that measure well on axis will develop a lower treble flare off axis because the tweeter has much wider dispersion than the midrange or woofer to which it's mated around the crossover frequency. And a number of speakers address that issue with horns or wave guides that control the tweeter output to match the mid or woofer more closely. That's probably a good thing in and of itself, but there are two problems. First, the horns or guides can mess up the on-axis response, and second, we don't know how the ear processes the later and attenuated reflected off-axis arrival times. My experience has been that the earlier arrivals from the on-axis and near-on-axis response profile are much more important. I try in my designs to avoid serious off-axis problems, but I'm certainly not willing to introduce any colorations in the on-axis to achieve smoother off-axis response. And I pay a lot less attention to off-axis behavior beyond, say, 30 degrees off axis (60 degrees listening window) than many people might.

 

[zieglj01]

Thanks zieg.

That is too narrow....it won't often be that different than the on-axis measurement. Also, it won't show the advantages of speakers with better off-axis response (greater than 15 degrees).

At least they are doing something - my ears make the
final decision, as to whether I like the speaker or not.

If a speaker really annoys me, then I know something
may be wrong - and it will not last long at my place.

The Boston has good off-axis response, and they did it
with-out some of the famous wave-guides.

It is interesting when some of these places measure the
same speaker - and they do not always look the same.
(And, I do understand some places measure differently)

I do not put all my eggs in the same basket - that is, who
do I depend/rely on more for measurements.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Another recommendation is the $2650 Funk Audio 6.1P bookshelf.

They are 16.5"H x 10"W x 12"D. F3 is 47Hz, f10 is 40Hz. Sensitivity is 89dB/2.83V/m. They weigh 23lbs each.

Combine with dual Funk 18.0 subs and you might find audio nirvana.

Email Nathan Funk and see if he could ship you a pair to audition.

Now if I could only sell most of my speakers.

 

[jbltmp]

Just returned my loaner pair of Totem Fires and will be posting my impressions soon.

Meanwhile I got an update from Alex Yoon at WaveTouch on the production version of the Mt. Rainier, so I've included pictures below. Note that there is no metal used in the Mt. Rainier’s binding posts. The internal wires go straight to the speaker cables. There is a patent pending on this design.

True to form for WaveTouch speakers, another "outside the box" speaker concept, but based on my my hearing the prototype, worthy of consideration for those seeking pure sound.

 

[jbltmp]

Quote of the day:

While I was returning the B&W CM5's at Best Buy the clerk asked...

"Don't these come with cables?"

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Quote of the day:

While I was returning the B&W CM5's at Best Buy the clerk asked...

"Don't these come with cables?"

LOL.

I would have said, "Dude, seriously?"

Was it one of the Geek Squads?

In which case, I would have said, "Dude, seriously, you actually work here?"

 

[monkish54]

Quote of the day:

While I was returning the B&W CM5's at Best Buy the clerk asked...

"Don't these come with cables?"

No, but they do come with a free pair of B&W 800Ds. On second thought, I'll just take my 800s and get out of here.

 

[Ponzio]

There's a Best Buy with a Magnolia showroom no more than a mile away from my house. I've stopped in about 5 times over the last 3 years and 4 out of the 5 times the sales people have been morons. Combine that with the equipment (AVR's & amps to speakers) being incorrectly connected/labeled, add a minimum wage sales person and you have the perfect $hit storm of incompetence. What's the frequency response for these B&W's bookshelf's? BLANK STARE & MUTE. How much power is going to the LR fronts from this Denon AVR? BLANK STARE & MUTE. And on & on. The cherry on the top is the Magnolia manager who I've dealt with the last 2 times in the past 5 months. An arrogant little meatball of mediocrity. The first time he intervenes and fails to get the speakers to demo, he claims the showroom is not ready for prime time, because "there still working out the bugs". The showroom has been operational for the last 3 years. The next time I go down and deal with a new sales person, it's a much different response. He must've drank about 4 cups of coffee before I got there. I give him my reference CD to listen to some Martin-Logan floor-standers. He's running around like a madman, pushing buttons all over the place and nothing. Looks at me with this wild-eyed stare and claims the CD player is on the fritz. He whips out his Android and attempts miserably to connect to 4 different AVR's, with the same result; failure. And who should come to his rescue; yep, meatball boy. With the same result. Again he starts to claim that "there still working out the bugs", when a note of recognition descends upon him ... crap, this is the guy who was in here a couple of months ago ... and with a straight face and a look of derision he says to me, obviously you must know what these speakers sound like and this is how much were selling them for, and walks away. I don't know whether to laugh or grab one of those small Bose cube speakers nearby and hit him in the back of his head. How much sales they're generating monthly out of this Magnolia showroom is unknown to me but too all appearances, it can't be much. I noticed maybe 1 or 2 other customers in there, besides myself, and they all seem to have the same look of frustration as myself as they leave. What incompetence!

And it's not like their prices are any more competitive than the local World Wide Stereo or hi-fi houses nearby. While I have my beefs with World Wide Stereo ... expensive, brand-centric (I'm assuming higher profit for them on certain brands (NAD, B&W, Klipsch), hence the higher commission for sales staff) ... their sales staff knowledge & equipment setup is top notch. Their target audience is the upper middle-class couple who just bought their first mini-McMansion or newly minted retirees with cash to burn who want to treat themselves to the finer things in life they've always denied themselves all those years. And people wonder why places like Circuit City went out of business. If Best Buy is not careful they may go the same way as them and join the dodo bird in extinction.