Standmount speakers: $2K, 4K or $6K?

[Adam]

WOW, Amazons really? I buy so much stuff from them, I am a prime member, never knew they were mongolians..

Naw, man. "Xena" Amazons. But, I know that you're kidding...

 

[Adam]

So, there will be no more commercials??

Oh, most surely there will be.

 

[jbltmp]

OK guys. Love those diversions , but as OP I'm going to be a kill-joy and bring this back to focus on the issue.

Has anyone out there had experience with the Salk Silk ($3495/pr) and care to comment?

 

[ImcLoud]

I haven't heard them, but judging by what the songs do and what others say about the salk products, I would be pretty confident in saying they would be worth the asking price plus some. For around $6000 you can probably get a pair of the silks and a pair of custom subs to match from Salk, maye some exotic veneer no one else uses...

Its been 15 days we need to at least get your finger on the trigger...

 

[jbltmp]

Believe me...it's itching.

 

[cschang]

Being in the SF Bay area....if you get down to SoCal, you should try and stop by Ascend Acoustics and get a listen to the newly released Sierra-2.

Some impressions are startling to roll in:
Sierra-2 Development Thread

 

[Pat D]

I am building a new system mostly from scratch and I'm auditioning standmount speakers. I've narrowed the field to three options, and I'm interested to hear folks' opinions of them.

I'm looking at the Revel Performa3 M-106 ($2K), the Mcintosh XR50 ($4K), and the Totem Element Fire ($6K). I will be using a McIntosh MA5200 integrated for amplificagtion (100 wpc), but haven't decided on the sources. For now I'll be using an older Sony CD going through its optical out into the McIntosh. The room is on the small side, 13' x 15', carpeted and with 9' ceilings.

I mostly listen to Maroon 5 and David Guetta type fair, but will also venture into classical, light jazz and Broadway, as well as an occasional Sinatra or Norah Jones.

I realize it's a wide price range and I'm not comparing apples to apples in that sense. I'm not saying price is no object but I'm willing to go to $6K for the Totems if there is enough appeal and value there.

Although I've listened to all three it was at three different dealers spread over a couple of weeks and my acoustic memory insn't good enough for me to definitively say I like one more than another. So, I'm "all ears" on opinions out there in the forum community.

Thanks for the thought.

There seem to be quite a few excellent stand mount speakers in your price range. I would suggest auditioning these two, well within your price limits:

PSB Synchrony One B

Paradigm Signature S2

Both are superb speakers, built by people who know how to build speakers. Both have very even response and wide dispersion. Your amplifier should be able to drive them very well. The PSB speaker has a more robust bass response, but is also less sensitive. Some other recommendations in this thread are great, too.

When I audition speakers, I always take along recording of full orchestra with massed string, male and female vocals, mixed chorus, and piano. If any speakers pass all those with flying colors, I can audition them further. I think it is important to try a wide variety of music. Also, you should be able to audition the speakers at home. Usually, a dealer will want you to pay by credit card, but have return privileges within a specified period of time. I always have that written on the invoice.

 

[jbltmp]

Thank Pat D.

A pattern of consistency around a dozen or so brands/models has been emerging in this thread, which I guess is a good thing given the vast amount of stand mounts available.

The PSB One B's have been recommended by others also but I haven't found a dealer in my area where I can listen to that specific model, which is a limiting fact of life in my search overall. I did get to hear the Paradigms, and they had a very good presentation - an equal or better value in their price range.

Good call on the home audition. I'm planning on it for the final 2 or 3 choices.

 

[ichigo]

Epos Epic 2s are one of my favorite inexpensive speakers. They are an amazing value and sound terrific. This is the kind of speaker that obliterates ID stuff like Ascend Sierra 1NRT. If I had to rank strictly under $5000 my favorite current production monitor speakers, it would be as follows:

B&W CM5
Totem Model 1 Signature
Epos Epic 2

B&W CM5 best speakers under $5k? You have some pretty eccentric tastes. And the Epos Epic 2 weren't even considered that great at its price range ($799) according to Stereophile, lol.

 

[Pat D]

Thank Pat D.

A pattern of consistency around a dozen or so brands/models has been emerging in this thread, which I guess is a good thing given the vast amount of stand mounts available.

The PSB One B's have been recommended by others also but I haven't found a dealer in my area where I can listen to that specific model, which is a limiting fact of life in my search overall. I did get to hear the Paradigms, and they had a very good presentation - an equal or better value in their price range.

Good call on the home audition. I'm planning on it for the final 2 or 3 choices.

I don't come here very often and I didn't take time to plow through the whole thread to see everything that was there. I have nothing whatever against Kef, B & W, Dynaudio, Apeiron, Focus, Totem, Joseph Audio, and so on, but I haven't heard the current models.

I did audition the Totem Mani-2 Signature at some length a few years ago and it sounded very nice. They are fairly insensitive and coupled with a minimum impedance in the mid to upper bass of 3.5 ohms, they are fairly hard to drive. I did not mention it because I think your amplifier might be a little marginal for them, depending on how loud you play them. They also have a very deep bass response, though I imagine that their output capabilities at 30 Hz and below would be somewhat limited. But in a small room, you might find the bass to be too much. An acquaintance of mine has had a pair for quite a while and he has been very satisfied with them.

Totem Acoustic Mani-2 loudspeaker 2009 Measurements | Stereophile.com

I went through some of the thread today and found you had auditioned the Paradigm Signature S2. The measurements Soundstage does indicates that Paradigm monitors, including the Signatures (this goes for PSB as well), play louder without excess distortion than most monitor speakers do. With most monitors, they only display distortion and linearity at 90 dB but they sometimes also measure at 95 dB. So I wonder what actually caused the congestion at high levels you heard.

 

[jbltmp]

I went through some of the thread today and found you had auditioned the Paradigm Signature S2. The measurements Soundstage does indicates that Paradigm monitors, including the Signatures (this goes for PSB as well), play louder without excess distortion than most monitor speakers do. With most monitors, they only display distortion and linearity at 90 dB but they sometimes also measure at 95 dB. So I wonder what actually caused the congestion at high levels you heard.

i'm not sure why I heard what I did through the Paradigms. It could have been the room, the recording, the amp, tired ears, or just an anomaly. But generally I thought the S2 was very competitive in its price range, and seemed to be a favorite at the dealer where I heard them. From the looks of the speaker it appears that a lot of engineering has gone into them.

I haven't heard the Mani-2, but the Totem I liked was the Fire, which is part of their more recent Element series.

 

[cpp]

I auditioned a lot of stand mount speakers (under $3,000) and ended up years ago with Usher Be-718's. They need some power to drive them but they sound great with all kinds of music...

 

[ichigo]

i'm not sure why I heard what I did through the Paradigms. It could have been the room, the recording, the amp, tired ears, or just an anomaly. But generally I thought the S2 was very competitive in its price range, and seemed to be a favorite at the dealer where I heard them. From the looks of the speaker it appears that a lot of engineering has gone into them.

I haven't heard the Mani-2, but the Totem I liked was the Fire, which is part of their more recent Element series.

According to Stereophile review of the S2s, they also heard some congestion, which they partially attributed to the grill, which is recommended to be attached during playback however it happens to rattle during playback. The same Stereophile review noted a large high-Q resonance mode at 800Hz.

Another possibility is the use of aluminum as a midrange midwoofer, it has well known breakup modes (depending on diameter) which require a steep crossover, but not all metal cone resonances can be made fully inaudible.

 

[Pat D]

According to Stereophile review of the S2s, they also heard some congestion, which they partially attributed to the grill, which is recommended to be attached during playback however it happens to rattle during playback. The same Stereophile review noted a large high-Q resonance mode at 800Hz.

Another possibility is the use of aluminum as a midrange midwoofer, it has well known breakup modes (depending on diameter) which require a steep crossover, but not all metal cone resonances can be made fully inaudible.

Aluminum mid-woofer? Not on the one John Atkinson reviewed for Stereophile in 2005. In the review, it is described as a "7" (178mm) MLP, mica-loaded polymer-cone woofer." It is sort of translucent plastic. You see, JA reviewed the first version of the S2 so the measurements he did are not applicable to the current model.

Paradigm Reference Signature S2 loudspeaker | Stereophile.com

Paradigm seems to have moved into the aluminum mid-woofer in the second edition of the Signature line. And you will notice that Soundstage measured the distortion not only at 90 dB but also at 95 dB with the smaller Signature S1, v. 2. Nary a sign of a significant resonance in the curves, either.

SoundStage! Equipment Review -Paradigm Reference Signature S1 v.2 Loudspeakers (12/2007)

SoundStage! Measurements - Paradigm Reference Signature S1 v.2 Loudspeakers (12/2007)

 

[ichigo]

Aluminum mid-woofer? Not on the one John Atkinson reviewed for Stereophile in 2005. In the review, it is described as a "7" (178mm) MLP, mica-loaded polymer-cone woofer." It is sort of translucent plastic. You see, JA reviewed the first version of the S2 so the measurements he did are not applicable to the current model.

Of course, I was referring to the S2v2 regarding aluminum woofers.

Nary a sign of a significant resonance in the curves, either.

SoundStage! Equipment Review -Paradigm Reference Signature S1 v.2 Loudspeakers (12/2007)

SoundStage! Measurements - Paradigm Reference Signature S1 v.2 Loudspeakers (12/2007)

Soundstage doesn't do spectral decay plots, so I can't see how you can look at what they measured and decide whether or not the cone has any measurable breakup modes.

 

[jbltmp]

Quick update...

I've connected with Jim Salk and arranged for him to send me the prototype Salk "Silks" for audition. The speakers will be shipped out tomorrow. My plan is to home audition the Silks versus the Totem "Fires" and possibly one other.
Will keep thread updated, and continue to appreciate any additional thoughts from Forum members.

 

[zieglj01]

Quick update...

I've connected with Jim Salk and arranged for him to send me the prototype Salk "Silks" for audition. The speakers will be shipped out tomorrow. My plan is to home audition the Silks versus the Totem "Fires" and possibly one other.

That is cool - have fun.

 

[Pat D]

Of course, I was referring to the S2v2 regarding aluminum woofers.



Soundstage doesn't do spectral decay plots, so I can't see how you can look at what they measured and decide whether or not the cone has any measurable breakup modes.

You seem to be one of those people who changes everything. Don't worry, I have a wife who does that, too, and she's a great person. First of all, I said Ididn't see any evidence of significant resonances in the measurements Soundstage did for the S1, v. 2. I might also mention that I searched the Stereophile review of the S2, original version, and did not find the word "congestion." More importantly, the review does not imply congestion. We have the original Paradigm Signature S2 speakers, and I have never heard anything from them I would call congestion. Would the newest iteration be better? The review of the S1, v. 2, in Soundstage indicates they measure better, with a couple of the small anomalies in the measurements of the original version gone. But I not currently looking for new speakers--a subwoofer with more output below 20 Hz, perhaps.

Now, as for those pesky resonances, you could check the impedance plot to see if there are any little glitches in it. And you could check the FR and dispersion plots to see if there are any anomalies that go across all of them.

I don't want to make too much of the fact that monitors from PSB, Paradigm, Kef, and some other makers seem to be able to play louder than many others without undue distortion or limiting. Someone mentioned the Usher Be-718, which seems to be an excellent speaker. It certainly measures very well. I haven't heard it, but for all I know, I might like it as well as my current speakers. However, Soundstage showed distortion at 90 dB for the Be-718, but not at 95 dB. How important is it? Probably not very as they probably can play loud enough with clean sound. Actually, I would not expect the speakers mentioned in this thread to have congested sound in normal use. I would expect that to be a placement issue with speakers of this caliber. That's the nice thing about the better speakers in this kind of price range: most of them should be satisfactory. There are surely some mediocre speakers in this price range, but they can be avoided with some care.

Sometimes dealers do not display speaker to their best advantage, and often enough, I have had to request that they move them out in the open.

Some years ago, I spent some time auditioning the Ethera Vitae speakers in the manufacturer's home. They sounded great on a wide variety of material. They are probably a bit large for a small room and I don't know the current price. They do make a smaller speaker called the Seraph but I have never heard it. If one is looking for something off the beaten track, it might be worth considering.

SoundStage! Equipment Review - Ethera Sound Corporation Vitae Loudspeakers (5/2002)

SoundStage! Measurements - Ethera Vitae Loudspeakers (5/2002)

I'm listening to The Famous Sound of Three Blind Mice samplers tonight, and they sound great. They would probably sound great over all speakers mentioned in this thread. I got them 20 odd years ago, and they can still be bought but the prices are pretty high! Whew!

Amazon.com: Buying Choices: Famous Sound of Three Blind Mice

And is Schubert's 9th Symphony complex enough?

Amazon.com: Schubert: Symphony No. 8 (No. 9) in C Major, D944 "Great": Music

 

[Pat D]

Quick update...

I've connected with Jim Salk and arranged for him to send me the prototype Salk "Silks" for audition. The speakers will be shipped out tomorrow. My plan is to home audition the Silks versus the Totem "Fires" and possibly one other.
Will keep thread updated, and continue to appreciate any additional thoughts from Forum members.

Great! Trying them out is the best way to find what you really like. I have never heard any of the Salk speakers but I would like to some day. Lots of people like them. The only Totem speakers I have heard are the Mani-2 Signature, which I liked a lot, and the Sttaf, which did not impress me all that much.

 

[ichigo]

You seem to be one of those people who changes everything. Don't worry, I have a wife who does that, too, and she's a great person.

Changes everything? Can you clarify what you mean?

First of all, I said Ididn't see any evidence of significant resonances in the measurements Soundstage did for the S1, v. 2. I might also mention that I searched the Stereophile review of the S2, original version, and did not find the word "congestion." More importantly, the review does not imply congestion. We have the original Paradigm Signature S2 speakers, and I have never heard anything from them I would call congestion. Would the newest iteration be better?

Here you go from the Stereophile review: "This track also revealed some slight problems with midrange clarity....such as the clarinet on my Mosaic CD (Stereophile STPH015-2),the instrument occasionally sounded a little more sour in intonation than I was anticipating."

The review of the S1, v. 2, in Soundstage indicates they measure better, with a couple of the small anomalies in the measurements of the original version gone.

The Soundstage measurements aren't very precise or informative, they are nice but certainly would not be the kind engineers take on the test bench to measure performance.

Now, as for those pesky resonances, you could check the impedance plot to see if there are any little glitches in it. And you could check the FR and dispersion plots to see if there are any anomalies that go across all of them.

Besides being very tiny FR plots and not very suitable for scientific analysis, there's plenty of things going on in an FR plot that make it difficult to say its caused by one thing or the other. As far as resonances, sometimes they can be seen on the impedence plot if it's a metal woofer issue, sometimes it's a cabinet issue.

I don't want to make too much of the fact that monitors from PSB, Paradigm, Kef, and some other makers seem to be able to play louder than many others without undue distortion or limiting. Someone mentioned the Usher Be-718, which seems to be an excellent speaker. It certainly measures very well. I haven't heard it, but for all I know, I might like it as well as my current speakers. However, Soundstage showed distortion at 90 dB for the Be-718, but not at 95 dB. How important is it? Probably not very as they probably can play loud enough with clean sound.

The Soundstage measurements aren't that informative. Here's a better one, and it shows very high THD at 100 dB, so the woofer certainly do not perform very well at high volumes. I know from personal experience as I've owned the Usher BE-718s (and Paradigm S2v2s as well, which were congested in the upper midrange in my experience).