SS vs Tube

[jcalcidise]

I have been experimenting with SS amps and pre-amp with different speaker combination's for some time now. I recently heard a tube pre-amp and tube amp set up and was astounded at the difference. It was so much more alive and real sounding. Much more warm and graceful than I have known so know I'm trying to figure out the best tube pre-amp/amp/speaker combo for the money. I have been hearing great reviews on Audio Research equipment and McIntosh, and what I recently heard was McIntosh but extremely high end, and so I'm looking for experienced advice from tubeaholics. I'm also not sure what would be a good fit speaker wise at reasonable prices.

 

[GranteedEV]

Before you drop 60000 on a 2 w SET...maybe start with something like this

http://www.emptek.com/amps.php

It's a tube Pre-amp that also has an integrated SS amp or you can use the pre-outs with another tube or higher end SS amp + has a sub out.

Tubes ain't my thing though. I'd like to own one or two for novelty's sake but I can't justify something that intentionally changes the sound to make it more pleasing.. it's like "Happy Face" EQ settings. I'd rather have a high level SS amp giving me the signal as it was recorded.

 

[jamie2112]

Tube sound is a different sound because the tubes actually add harmonic distortion which some people love and some hate.It warms up the sound if you will,making it appear more "cushiony" or warmer. Most "audiophiles" don't want to introduce and distortion be it tube or not to their systems.I myself like the sound of tubes on certain music. You have a huge amount of choices in tube pre amps and amps so I would just listen to as many as you can before making a buy......

 

[mtrycrafts]

I have been experimenting with SS amps and pre-amp with different speaker combination's for some time now. I recently heard a tube pre-amp and tube amp set up and was astounded at the difference. It was so much more alive and real sounding. Much more warm and graceful than I have known so know I'm trying to figure out the best tube pre-amp/amp/speaker combo for the money. I have been hearing great reviews on Audio Research equipment and McIntosh, and what I recently heard was McIntosh but extremely high end, and so I'm looking for experienced advice from tubeaholics. I'm also not sure what would be a good fit speaker wise at reasonable prices.

You may want to research why you perceived a difference, what that difference may be, etc before you get trapped into the tube gear.

 

[3db]

You may want to research why you perceived a difference, what that difference may be, etc before you get trapped into the tube gear.

Tubes = Hotel California??

 

[Rickster71]

If you like tube type units after hearing them, that's up to you.
My 2 cents from my experience with tubes; the maintenance is ridiculous and not worth the nostalgia or cool factor.
There is a reason why tubes were replaced with SS components.

 

[highfigh]

Tubes = Hotel California??

That was the Iggles, ya big dork!

Signed,

White Punks on Dope

 

[highfigh]

Tubes can sound really good. The problem is that it won't happen through all speakers, especially if the impedance curve looks like a roller coaster or if the output transformers aren't really top-notch. I still have a Conrad Johnson amp with EL-34 output tubes and will do a comparison as soon as I put it together after replacing a few caps. It's older and was due for this anyway but I would hardly call it "high maintenance". They don't need much if they're used fairly regularly and unless something actually fails, the caps can be left alone. However, a periodic re-biasing isn't a bad idea.

I listened to a customer's Audio Research amp last week and the response definitely isn't flat. The McIntosh amp was much brighter with the same speakers.

At this point, I would have to say that SS is the way to go if actual fidelity in reproduction is the goal. Tubes do have their good points, though. I still wouldn't use many of the current solid state guitar amps-for that, I would use tubes.

 

[Rickster71]

For me, maintenance included, first, having to pay hundreds for a tube tester.
Tubes don't go bad quickly like a light bulb. They gradually go out of range; so you do need a tester.
So I'd pull each tube and test them, one at a time until I found the one or two offenders.
We had an attic with hundreds of vacuum tubes; so I'd search through many until I found the right one.
Six months later I'd repeat the process again.

Contrast that with my first solid state receiver STA-78 from Radio Shack / Realistic; 32 years old, it still plays in my office today, with zero maintenance.

 

[markw]

Tubes are great for producing music but transistors are great for reproducing music.

 

[3db]

Its all about choice. I still want to audition a tube amp just to see what the sound is all about. Wether or not its accurate is immaterial to me. How I like the sound is whats most important; hence my love of vinyl.

Rickster, you do bring up a valid point about maintenance. It will take some work to properly maintain a tube amp. Some people don't mind the work and draws them closer to the hobby. Again, I draw the turntable analogy. I like the involvement it brings. Its personally more rewarding than putting in a CD and just hitting play or worse, playing an MP3 which is totally non tangeable.

Its not right or wrong.. just a matter of what a person likes or disklikes.

 

[oppman99]

I've always been curious about the sound of tubes myself. Auditioned a Mac tube amp last weekend and I was less than impressed. To be fair, it was hooked to gear I'm not familiar with. I'm planning on getting a tube buffer just to play around with.

 

[jamie2112]

I had a little tube preamp at one time a few years ago and it was amazing with cd's.I had it hooked up via the pre outs on my Denon and a Acurus 250 watt amp driving B&W 602's and JBL 12 sub.It sounded great like I said and then A/B ing the Denon and the preamp it was clear the pre was great for some things while the Denon in direct mode sounded just a wee bit cleaner to me.So I got rid of the pre.I would try again in the future though......

 

[highfigh]

For me, maintenance included, first, having to pay hundreds for a tube tester.
Tubes don't go bad quickly like a light bulb. They gradually go out of range; so you do need a tester.
So I'd pull each tube and test them, one at a time until I found the one or two offenders.
We had an attic with hundreds of vacuum tubes; so I'd search through many until I found the right one.
Six months later I'd repeat the process again.

Contrast that with my first solid state receiver STA-78 from Radio Shack / Realistic; 32 years old, it still plays in my office today, with zero maintenance.

The tubes in my Conrad Johnson lasted well over 10 years and that amp has bias indicators on it. The output tubes in my '58 Bassman are probably 15 years old and the bias is fixed. I have changed the rectifier from solid state to a tube (an old one) and I haven't had any problems with it. I finally changed some of the caps (the bias and the V1 cathode caps were original) in '06 and I have had no trouble from it, aside from the time the speaker wires shorted and caused a carbon trace on an output tube socket, blowing the fuse. I'm surprised the output transformer didn't go away but it's a very durable amp. A 52 year old amp that I've had for about 30 years and only one problem is pretty good, IMO. The C-J is from the early '80s and I got it in about '87.

A good design is a good design, regardless of the topology. I have an Oahu lap steel amp that, as far as I have determined, was made in the late '30s. I have to think it sat for a really long time because it had the original Ken-Rad tubes in it, although V1 and V2 were swapped and I think that's why it was set aside. After re-capping it, I found that the rectifier was bad, so I bought 3 on the bay for $18.50 and it fired right up (after checking the voltages) and it sounds great. I don't have a tube tester and I'm not going to buy one because I don't service equipment for others. If I did, I would definitely need one. I agree that tube equipment needs very different care and feeding from what solid state needs, because of the high voltages present. Unless it's some bizarre design, it's going to be pretty reliable, though.

 

[highfigh]

Its all about choice. I still want to audition a tube amp just to see what the sound is all about. Wether or not its accurate is immaterial to me. How I like the sound is whats most important; hence my love of vinyl.

Rickster, you do bring up a valid point about maintenance. It will take some work to properly maintain a tube amp. Some people don't mind the work and draws them closer to the hobby. Again, I draw the turntable analogy. I like the involvement it brings. Its personally more rewarding than putting in a CD and just hitting play or worse, playing an MP3 which is totally non tangeable.

Its not right or wrong.. just a matter of what a person likes or disklikes.

One thing I like about tubes is that badly mastered CDs aren't nearly as harsh as they are through solid state. Where are you located?

 

[3db]

One thing I like about tubes is that badly mastered CDs aren't nearly as harsh as they are through solid state. Where are you located?

Ontario Canada..eh?!!

 

[jcalcidise]

Well all of your responses are appreciated! I just went, again, yesterday and listened to both a SS amp and Tube pre and then Tube/Tube and WOW big difference. On the tube/tube the highs were clean but not as defined as I'm used to the bass was definitely a little syrupy, but not none existent, but the mid's were truly impressive. When I went to the SS/tube it helped the high's and lows a lot but the tube pre really assisted in keeping the tube feel. I don't want to add anything to the music I hear I just want a well rounded sound. I'm going tomorrow to another place and listening to a tube amp and SS pre set up because someone suggested it. I'm learning a lot about true wattage though. At 50watts of power, as I understand it, you're only at 17db's. When you go to 100 watts it only adds 3db's more and so on and so on. So most of the tube amps I've heard are only 50 watts per channel but damn pretty impressive!

 

[GranteedEV]

Well all of your responses are appreciated! I just went, again, yesterday and listened to both a SS amp and Tube pre and then Tube/Tube and WOW big difference. On the tube/tube the highs were clean but not as defined as I'm used to the bass was definitely a little syrupy, but not none existent, but the mid's were truly impressive. When I went to the SS/tube it helped the high's and lows a lot but the tube pre really assisted in keeping the tube feel. I don't want to add anything to the music I hear I just want a well rounded sound. I'm going tomorrow to another place and listening to a tube amp and SS pre set up because someone suggested it. I'm learning a lot about true wattage though. At 50watts of power, as I understand it, you're only at 17db's. When you go to 100 watts it only adds 3db's more and so on and so on. So most of the tube amps I've heard are only 50 watts per channel but damn pretty impressive!

Wait, who suggested it? I hope you're not mistaking what I said. I was suggesting the tube pre with ss amp.

Also, at 50 watts of power you're not at 17dbs... that's very quiet.
At 50 watts of power you're getting 17 db of amplifier gain. There's a big difference.

For example a popular speaker is the Paradigm Monitor 7.

This speaker has a sensitivity of 91 db / 2.83 v / m
For an 8 ohm nominal load this is an efficiency of 91db / w / m

This means that 1 m away, 1 watt will give you 91 db from a speaker.
50 watts will thus give you around 108 db out of a single speakers.
50 watts will thus give you around 111 db out of a pair of speakers.

At a more realistic seating spot of ~12 feet away... 50 watts will give you ~99.7 db out of a pair of speakers.

In a more realistic room, sitting 12 feet away, 50 watts will give you ~102.7 db out of that pair of speakers.

 

[wire]

I have been experimenting with SS amps and pre-amp with different speaker combination's for some time now. I recently heard a tube pre-amp and tube amp set up and was astounded at the difference. It was so much more alive and real sounding. Much more warm and graceful than I have known so know I'm trying to figure out the best tube pre-amp/amp/speaker combo for the money. I have been hearing great reviews on Audio Research equipment and McIntosh, and what I recently heard was McIntosh but extremely high end, and so I'm looking for experienced advice from tubeaholics. I'm also not sure what would be a good fit speaker wise at reasonable prices.

I prefer tube sound over SS sound now . I won a small tube amp a few years ago off Audioholics , wow there is quite a difference in sound . The biggest is , my ears never get tried of the sound of a tube amp . I have been a owner of midrange equipment for over 20 years ( maybe longer ) . I have owned a Bryston 4b for over 25 years and my ears get tired even of that amp . The Mids and highs of tube amp are simply sweet and not harsh , The voice right on , the symbols are not harsh at all . down side you have to let the tubes warm up before using it .
Just my opinion , my X girlfriend , loved the tube setup and said never to change it ( so i have left my bedroom setup alone ) .

 

[RMRM]

If your checking out tube gear look at Prima Luna I think there great for the price. I heard them on a pair of B&W 805D they sounded great better than the Sim moon audio that was playing them. Just my 2cents but I have fell in love with the sound of tubes.