Speaker Options (Fronts) 5-6k Range

[herbu]

I've been doing some research lately, and learned some interesting stuff. (You likely already know it.)
Looking at Salk, here is a comparison:

			Cost	Freq	Tweeter	Mid	Woofer
SongTower QWT		$1,999	42 - 20kHz	Hiquphon OW2	2x Seas ER15RLY	O
SongTower Supercharged	$3,499	34 - 20kHz	RAAL Ribbon	2x Seas Excel W15	O
Veracity HT1-TL		$3,499	34 - 60kHz	RAAL Ribbon	1x Seas Exce W18E001	O
Veracity HT2-TL		$4,499	34 - 60kHz	RAAL Ribbon	2x Seas Exce W18E001	O
Soundscape 8		$7,999	25 - 60kHz	RAAL Ribbon	1x Accuton	2x custom 8" long-throw

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Start w/ the $2k SongTower QWT.
For an additional $1.5k, (to $3.5k), you get the RAAL tweeter, and a deeper bass response which is to my reckoning, 3 notes.
Then for another $1k, (to $4.5k), you get what I suppose is more volume and maybe clarity w/ 2 mid drivers.
Then for another $3.5k, (to $8k), you pick up another 3 notes in bass extension, and again I suppose more volume.

I'm looking at each of these steps and wondering what is worth it to me.
If I'm going to keep my 2 subs, and crossover at ~80Hz, does the added bass extension from 42Hz down to 25Hz do anything for me?
If my top volume of even big bing/bang/boom movies is not much over 100dB, will more drivers really be useful?

This is the kind of stuff I'm looking at. I'd like what I use to be the best for what I'm willing to spend. So I need to figure out what I'll really use.

 

[ImcLoud]

what I use[/U] to be the best for what I'm willing to spend. So I need to figure out what I'll really use.

Exactly, perfectly said... there is only one way to figure this out, demo demo demo...

The soundscapes would be my choice for 2.0 the songs with ribbons would be nice, but a bookshelf might sound better than that for even less..

 

[theJman]

If I'm going to keep my 2 subs, and crossover at ~80Hz, does the added bass extension from 42Hz down to 25Hz do anything for me?

Not really. If you anticipate using an 80Hz crossover then what a speaker can do below, say, 60Hz is of little consequence. Crossovers are not brick walls, they gradually lower output, so if the crossover is 2nd order - 6dB rolloff per octave - by the time it gets to 60Hz there's nothing really audible. As long as the speakers you choose are solid to that range anything much below it is not going to benefit you.

If my top volume of even big bing/bang/boom movies is not much over 100dB, will more drivers really be useful?

There are a lot of variables that come into play here; size of the drivers, efficiency, crossover, etc. It's not really something anyone can answer in a general sense.

 

[GranteedEV]

I've been doing some research lately, and learned some interesting stuff. (You likely already know it.)
Looking at Salk, here is a comparison:

			Cost	Freq	Tweeter	Mid	Woofer
SongTower QWT		$1,999	42 - 20kHz	Hiquphon OW2	2x Seas ER15RLY	O
SongTower Supercharged	$3,499	34 - 20kHz	RAAL Ribbon	2x Seas Excel W15	O
Veracity HT1-TL		$3,499	34 - 60kHz	RAAL Ribbon	1x Seas Exce W18E001	O
Veracity HT2-TL		$4,499	34 - 60kHz	RAAL Ribbon	2x Seas Exce W18E001	O
Soundscape 8		$7,999	25 - 60kHz	RAAL Ribbon	1x Accuton	2x custom 8" long-throw

<tbody>
</tbody>

Start w/ the $2k SongTower QWT.
For an additional $1.5k, (to $3.5k), you get the RAAL tweeter, and a deeper bass response which is to my reckoning, 3 notes.
Then for another $1k, (to $4.5k), you get what I suppose is more volume and maybe clarity w/ 2 mid drivers.
Then for another $3.5k, (to $8k), you pick up another 3 notes in bass extension, and again I suppose more volume.

I'm looking at each of these steps and wondering what is worth it to me.
If I'm going to keep my 2 subs, and crossover at ~80Hz, does the added bass extension from 42Hz down to 25Hz do anything for me?
If my top volume of even big bing/bang/boom movies is not much over 100dB, will more drivers really be useful?

This is the kind of stuff I'm looking at. I'd like what I use to be the best for what I'm willing to spend. So I need to figure out what I'll really use.

Yeah, but there's other differences you're kind of neglecting. For example, the ~4 inch mid on the SS8s has a wider dispersion than the ~6.5" mids on the HT2-TLs. It may affect what you're hearing in-room.

 

[Mr_Owlow]

The Divine series speakers from XTZ is some of the best I've heard in this price range. Granted, I'm in Sweden, so the products available are others than in the US, but I have heard many systems, up to the 40000 dollar range.

The smaller speakers, the 100.33, could almost count as floor standing if you use the stands, and they sound spectacular. Clear and airy, with great separation and amazingly musical, and they reach pretty deep too.

The floor standing speakers, the 100.49, are greater still, a bit better in the midrange, and the dual 10" basses reaches deep. Since you will get a subwoofer, then the 100.33's are probably more suited to your needs.

I understand wanting to buy domestic, but this is a great value, and extremely high quality for the money.

Other brands to consider might be Linn, Revel and Marten design.

 

[Cos]

Round 2?

I know the reason you returned the GE had nothing to do with the SQ.

I sold my entire DT system, which I personally thought sounded better in my room than most speakers, except for the RBH T2.

I don't think the tweeter makes the speaker. I don't think any specific driver material or type makes the speaker sound great. It is the whole speaker design. I wouldn't get caught up in the driver type or material.

So at this point, you'll just have to audition as many speakers as possible. You are lucky to be able to return the GE so easily.

The reason I was going to return my Golden Ear Three had absolutely nothing to do with sound quality and in the end while I demo'd pretty much all day on Saturday, I ended up keeping the Triton Ones.

I will say I would have been completely happy with the Monitor Audio GX300 @ Saturday Morning Audio Exchange as they are fantastic sound sounding speakers

I likedthe Sonus Faber Venere 3.0 which were at a Magnolia (BB on Steriods) which also sounded spectacular

The reason I was going to switch is that one of my Golden Ear Triton Ones arrived (damaged/defective) The outside packing box was perfectly fine, but every time it powered on/off (blue light in the back) my left speaker would make a loud pop.

These speakers are huge about 100lbs and I was worried about the following;
-Build Quality (Though that was quickly put to rest)
-Speakers are highly constrained and difficult to find - worried I would have to wait a long time for repair/parts (i.e. Rich /Revel)


The main reason for my decision to return is I didn't like GE's response to my comment on their Facebook page, which I thought was extremely rude, but was apparently a misunderstanding

I will say this, Golden Ear Support is OVER THE TOP GOOD. When I had my issue, I reported it on a Friday night on their website with a reply back the same day.

I also posted my issue on the AVSforum Golden Ear anticipation thread. I received a personal IM on the forum from Sandy on Saturday afternoon addressing my issue and how it would be taken care of. Their VP is in my neck of the woods, whom my dealer knows very well.

Only downside, I thought the person who runs their Facebook page comments were rude, so I was like "screw it" I don't need this if I am buying 5k Speakers, so I took their advice and was going to return the speaker.

I received 2 emails from GE customer service (1 requesting the Serial Number and when I told them I was returning the speakers, they actually reached out and spoke to the person who does their Facebook and apologized as it was a huge misunderstanding.)

I think the most important part of staying with GoldenEar has to do with the fact of the way I was supported by my dealer Deluxe Audio & Video in Naperville. He was at CEDIA 2014 and actually called me from the show, when he got my email describing the problem. By Saturday Morning he had answered all of my questions, and on Sunday delivered a new Speaker after I had decided to stay with GE. I really didn't want to start out with my new speakers in a repair shop and I didn't have too I have been buying from this place since 2002 and this is why I keep coming back.

I appreciate the feedback gave my on alternatives, and damn there are some nice sounding ones from my experience yesterday, but It was never about the sound quality of the Triton Ones, they put a huge smile on my face and all bumps in the road aside, their support is second to none.

 

[herbu]

Yeah, but there's other differences you're kind of neglecting. For example, the ~4 inch mid on the SS8s has a wider dispersion than the ~6.5" mids on the HT2-TLs. It may affect what you're hearing in-room.

Thank you. That's the kind of thing that's not apparent to me in the reviews/charts. It also seems like one of the attributes that may or may not be important to a particular consumer. In my case, off-axis listening is not an issue. Although my room is quite irregular, my area of concern is 2 centered La-Z-Boys. No long sofa off to the side, no 2nd or 3rd row. I can aim the front L/Rs directly between the 2 seats, so neither seat is more than 5-10deg off center. That means a wide dispersion is a low priority for me... right?

Also, I'm a bit befuddled over paying for a frequency response up to 60kHz. I don't hear much above 10kHz. So unless the 60kHz tweeter also has noticeable advantage in the 10kHz range, it is also not worth paying for. True even for people with the very best high freq hearing. In both music and HT, what goes over 10kHz? Right?

 

[GranteedEV]

Thank you. That's the kind of thing that's not apparent to me in the reviews/charts. It also seems like one of the attributes that may or may not be important to a particular consumer. In my case, off-axis listening is not an issue. Although my room is quite irregular, my area of concern is 2 centered La-Z-Boys. No long sofa off to the side, no 2nd or 3rd row. I can aim the front L/Rs directly between the 2 seats, so neither seat is more than 5-10deg off center. That means a wide dispersion is a low priority for me... right?

Wrong. You don't only hear the direct response of a loudspeaker in a room. You hear direct response :and: the delayed reflections as you brain tries to separate them. When a driver is smaller than the frequency it produces, it spreads that sound everywhere. As a driver gets larger and larger, it focuses that sound forward. So what happens when you transition from a 6" driver at 3 khz to a 3/4" tweeter? A sudden switch from a narrow dispersion to a virtually omni dispersion. How confident are you your room isn't redirecting that excess high frequency right back to your ears?

In rooms, a great portion of what we hear is both direct response AND its relation to sound power response. It affects our perception of things like timbre and soundstage and low level intelligibility.

Also, I'm a bit befuddled over paying for a frequency response up to 60kHz. I don't hear much above 10kHz. So unless the 60kHz tweeter also has noticeable advantage in the 10kHz range, it is also not worth paying for. True even for people with the very best high freq hearing. In both music and HT, what goes over 10kHz? Right?

Don't overthink basic specs like that. You're definitely paying for a tweeter's 2khz to 16khz performance. No, all tweeters aren't the same if they're spec'd to 20khz. No, not everyone prefers or cares for the same teeeters.

 

[GranteedEV]

I am considering that as a possible option, but I have always liked towers, I am definitely going to take more time looking. Since I am near Chicago, there are lots of good locations to check out.

If you're near chicago, then you're near Seaton Sound.

 

[theJman]

If you're near chicago, then you're near Seaton Sound.

+1

Seaton Sound is outside of the city limits, but depending upon where you are it might not be too far (it was a solid 40 minutes from O'hare). If you can make it out there it's well worth the trip, and you won't regret it; Mark's setup is 90% warehouse and 10% office, so his demo room isn't all that large, but he really enjoys showing people around. Just make sure you leave a lot of time though because he so loves this stuff that an hour would be a short visit. Trust me on that one.

 

[zieglj01]

The reason I was going to return my Golden Ear Three had absolutely nothing to do with sound quality and in the end while I demo'd pretty much all day on Saturday, I ended up keeping the Triton Ones.

I will say I would have been completely happy with the Monitor Audio GX300 @ Saturday Morning Audio Exchange as they are fantastic sound sounding speakers

By Saturday Morning he had answered all of my questions, and on Sunday delivered a new Speaker after I had decided to stay with GE. I really didn't want to start out with my new speakers in a repair shop and I didn't have too I have been buying from this place since 2002 and this is why I keep coming back.

Glad things worked out - that is good customer service

At least, you got to hear the GX300 Monitor Audio

 

[c2k]

While I have been extremely happy with the sound of the GE T1s I purchased, but do to other issues, I have decided to return them and look at other options.

Room Size: 23x20 approximate

- I really like the sound of the ribbon tweeters so if you can recommend manufacturers that offer a similar solution in the treble range
- Does not need to have integrated subs, will be purchased separately
- About 40/60 Music/HT
- Not built overseas is big plus

I know there is Definitive Tech, but I would like to consider options. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

I can help you with your purchase I have listened to RAALs before and is regarded as some of the best ribbons you can get. But I only listened to the 140-15D which can be crossed over lower.
But I think you might also want to consider Funk Audio. The reason for considering a planar is the large surface area and it will be able to reproduce frequencies were most of the music information is with less distortion. The sensitivity is fairly high at 96dB/w and it will be easy to drive to get you to ear blistering levels. The music is reproduced with amazing dynamics and detail with no coloration.

I listened to these ones already and I like them a lot and currently have a set of speakers also being built by the same guy.
Here's a video of his work on my pair of speakers, Part 7 (You can see the rest on that channel )

Get the 8.2Ps they are within your budget in the specials section of Funk Audio
http://www.funkaudio.ca/store/p14/Funk_Audio_Speakers_-_8.2P_Demo_Pair.html
With that money saved you can get yourself a pair of his highly respected subwoofers or even a pair Think Paradigm Sub 2 levels of power minus the cost. I found them to be very quick subwoofers with outstanding performance. The bass is extremely tight and sounds "right". Very Very low distortion. Definitely one of the most accurate subs you can get. I am getting the 18.2 from Funk too as well

[video=youtube;53EcjW5sPZ0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53EcjW5sPZ0[/video]



I hope you enjoy the pictures

 

[jbrown15]

I really enjoyed the 8.2P's and 6.1P's at the GTG that I hosted Steve for music, and I'm still thinking about buying a pair of the 6.1P's to use for music on my main floor. But honestly I felt that they were really lack luster for movies, they are a really laid back speaker and I think that really shows when using them with movies.

Like I said for music I REALLY enjoyed both speakers, ironically I thought that the 6.1P's sounded better then the 8.2P's and that was almost the general consensus. But I wouldn't want either speaker if movies were going to be for over 50% of the usage.

****disclaimer**** this is totally just my opinion, but it was one that a few others that were at the speaker GTG also thought.

 

[c2k]

I think it's possibly because of the room as well that might be effecting the sound for the 8.2s.

My personal opinion is that during movies they sounded "right".
What can be done is Nathan can configure within the alldsp for a boost in the treble to give the effect as the other speakers. But personally I think if the music sounded accurate it should be for the movies as well.

If I recalled, they haven't come close to exceeding their limits either.
But please note that I did have a listen in a different environment as well, along with a significant amount of time on both speakers by myself and found them non-fatiguing which is a sign of low distortion even on higher levels of volume.

 

[jbrown15]

I get what you're saying and that's probably how you like your speakers for movies, but I'm not the only one that felt this way about both of the Funk speakers when it came to the movie portion of the GTG. Most agreed that they liked them for music but that wasn't the case for movies. At least that's the feeling I get when you go back and read the GTG results thread.

I can appreciate the hard work that Nathan puts into even a pair of the 6.1P bookshelf speakers, they really do look amazing. Top notch craftsmanship! But if I was planning on using something for movies I'd want something a little more dynamic. But that's just my own personal preference.

Now as for the 18.2 man if I had the budget for that sub please sign me up for two!...lol
That was the single most powerful sub that I've ever heard and from what Nathan was saying it wasn't even breaking a sweat!...lol

 

[c2k]

Personally I wouldn't use movies as a reference point. Even if most agreed it sounds great for movies it may not represent the absolute highest accuracy. But that is just my opinion.
Much of the effects are computer generated and there is really no reference point for me to go by. I personally think it's a preference for both sides especially since neither of us were at the recording studio and seeing how mastering took place and how "they" wanted us to experience it. I certainly wouldn't mind sitting by the railway tracks and getting a recording from that just to test the dynamics. You are there to hear it as a reference point and you get the original untouched recording
But hey! I had some fun with you guys.

As for the 18.2, yup I think we all agreed on the same thing. I do not think I will ever be able to go back. Powerful and tight, don't remember if your place can handle over 20kW though

 

[shadyJ]

I really enjoyed the 8.2P's and 6.1P's at the GTG that I hosted Steve for music, and I'm still thinking about buying a pair of the 6.1P's to use for music on my main floor. But honestly I felt that they were really lack luster for movies, they are a really laid back speaker and I think that really shows when using them with movies.

Like I said for music I REALLY enjoyed both speakers, ironically I thought that the 6.1P's sounded better then the 8.2P's and that was almost the general consensus. But I wouldn't want either speaker if movies were going to be for over 50% of the usage.

****disclaimer**** this is totally just my opinion, but it was one that a few others that were at the speaker GTG also thought.

I think you should qualify that criticism with that fact that the 6.1s are not huge and ugly high sensitivity speakers. The other speakers at your GTG were, and not very many people could put them in a living room, unlike the 6.1s. All the other speakers had about zero WAF. I think you should judge the 6.1s against other similarly spec'd, priced, and sized speakers in terms of dynamic range. You can't fairly compare them against huge Yorkville live sound speakers or SEOS or JTRs, unless you were looking for speakers for a dedicated home theater room.

 

[jbrown15]

I think you should qualify that criticism with that fact that the 6.1s are not huge and ugly high sensitivity speakers. The other speakers at your GTG were, and not very many people could put them in a living room, unlike the 6.1s. All the other speakers had about zero WAF. I think you should judge the 6.1s against other similarly spec'd, priced, and sized speakers in terms of dynamic range. You can't fairly compare them against huge Yorkville live sound speakers or SEOS or JTRs, unless you were looking for speakers for a dedicated home theater room.

I'll agree with the WAF comment but the rest of your argument kind of goes out the window as these speakers cost just about as much as anything else at the GTG and they aren't exactly tiny themselves. I'm simply judging them from what I heard in person, and I also think not to judge them on how they are with movies would go against what the OP has said that he'll be using them for 60% movie use. I also don't really get when the argument is made that if they sound good for music they'll sound good for movies.

If I was building a two channel setup for music, then yes these speakers would be high on my list. But not if movies are going to be the majority of my use. That's all that I'm saying. If the OP or even you shady wanted to hear the 6.1P's I think Nathan actually has a pair that he'd ship to you to audition and the only real catch is that you have to pay the return shipping on them. I think anyone considering these speakers should definitely take advantage of this offer. You may end up liking them, but for me I'd use something else "if" the primary use is movies and tv.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I've auditioned the Funk Audio 6.1P in my home for both music and movies. They sounded equally fantastic for music and movies. They don't discriminate. They don't know if the source is movies or music. And they don't care. They just reproduce the sound accurately and dynamically. If the sound is great, the 6.1P sounds great. If the sound is bad, the 6.1P sounds bad.

 

[Cos]

I've auditioned the Funk Audio 6.1P in my home for both music and movies. They sounded equally fantastic for music and movies. They don't discriminate. They don't know if the source is movies or music. And they don't care. They just reproduce the sound accurately and dynamically. If the sound is great, the 6.1P sounds great. If the sound is bad, the 6.1P sounds bad.

Off Topic...but have you actually received your RBH's yet?