Speaker Balancing and Maximum Volume Level

[RX-V2400]

<font color='#000000'>In another thread I complained of disapointment with DVD-Audio over Stereo, and Shinerman and Jeffs4mac took me to task, so I played with my system. I found I had a problem with speaker balance; I had let the Yamaha RX-V2400 balance itself and found I just was not hearing the back four suround speakers.

I rebalanced the system so I felt I was in the middle of the action, but by taking so much away from the front main speakers I now lack volume. At the 0 db gain level I don't have the volume or power left for good headroom.

Before I put &nbsp;a front end stereo amp on to the front chanells perhaps I could solicit some comments.</font>

 

[jeffsg4mac]

<font color='#000000'>What did you use to balance? And again see my post on the other thread if you are not using the 5.1 analog output on the DVD player and 5.1 analog into the receiver you are NOT listening to DVD audio. Also, if you balance the system in Dolby digital with DVE or Avia it will be different with the analog input, I found mine was off enough to make a difference. I balanced the system with DVE and then switched to analog input and used the DVD players test tones and balanced them. That is as close as you will get until someone comes out with a disk mastered SACD or DVD audio for system setup. again I mean no disrespect when I try to explain this stuff, If it comes across that way I apologize, I just want to see get you system setup correct back then report back when you have really heard DVD audio and tell me then how it sounds

Your gonna crap yourself it is so good

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[RX-V2400]

<font color='#000000'>As I said in my post I balanced by ear while listening to the DVD-A recording. My point is i did get to hear sound all around and it was better but I LOST VOLUME. Can you comment on this? It seems that having put more to the small souround speakers my system has not the power for the main speakers. What do you think Jeff?</font>

 

[zumbo]

<font color='#000000'>RXV, In a previous post you said you were a audiophile. Now you say you calibrated your system by ear using a music cd. Now I am no audiophile, expert, or any other hi-tech term someone might use. I am just a musician that loves good sound reproduction. But, there is no way you can calibrate by ear!
If I were you, I would go back &amp; set everything back to normal and try again.
Get a friend that would let you hook up a different cd or dvd source to see if that would make a difference in your output. Might be the Toshiba at fault here.
Again, I am just trying to be helpful, not rude!
But lets try to be honest about our level of being experts! I am here to learn like the rest of us!</font>

 

[jeffsg4mac]

<font color='#000000'>Zumbo is correct, you can not balance by ear, you need a sound level meter, and test tones. You need to use some calibrating DVD or use the built in test tones. You can not calibrate with a music disk it is just not possible. If you do not have one go to radio shack and get a level meter, Less than 40 bucks.</font>

 

[Shinerman]

<font color='#000000'>RX-V2400, &nbsp;how can you comment on the DVD-A sound when you are not hooked up for DVD-A sound? &nbsp; You're right, your DVD-A disks don't sound right because your player is not hooked up right. &nbsp;HUGE difference. &nbsp;There is no comparison between standard CD and DVD-A. &nbsp;As I mention before, listening to a CD or even a DVD-A in DTS and PLII are very good, but true DVD-A and SACD sound is better. &nbsp; You must use 5.1 anolog hookups in order the get DVD-A/SACD. There is a definite difference between DVD-A and listening to a DVD-A in DTS or PLII. &nbsp;When you hook it up properly, let us know how you think it sounds then. &nbsp;My guess is that you will love it. &nbsp; Until then, you really can't make any judgements about your system in regard to DVD-A because your not hearing DVD-A. &nbsp;

Shinerman. &nbsp;

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[micb]

<font color='#000000'>Have a read of my post to you in this thread.

http://www.audioholics.com/cgi-bin....;t=1651</font>

 

[av_phile]

<font color='#000000'>I amof the impression that a new multi-channel receivers and amps out there have identical power ratings for all 5 or 6 channels. &nbsp; Going form stereo to 5.1 shouldn't leave you with less volume to play around with. &nbsp;In fact, it should go louder as you have two or 3 added speakers giving out the same power and sound pressure levels as a stereo pair. &nbsp;

Otheriwse, the amp is not really multi-channel. &nbsp;It's pseudo.</font>

 

[RX-V2400]

<font color='#000000'>av_phile, your argument ignors the relative sensistivity of the speakers and the fact that the input levels to the souround speakers is lower than to the main fronts. I think this is why I got my overall volume loss. I'm just not sure what to do. My real question was should I need and a front end stereo amp to the front mains.</font>

 

[zumbo]

<font color='#000000'>You can bi-amp your mains. Hook to speaker A &amp; B outputs. If your speakers can be bi-wired! This will double the power to each main! Be sure to turn on A &amp; B speaker output on the front of the receiver.</font>

 

[Guest]

<font color='#000000'>&quot;You can bi-amp your mains. Hook to speaker A &amp; B outputs. If your speakers can be bi-wired! This will double the power to each main!&quot;

Yes, you can &quot;bi-wire&quot; (not bi-amp) your main speakers by using the A/B outputs simultaneously with the 2400, but is ABSOLUTELY DOES NOT double the power! &nbsp;

RXV2400,
In 2-channel mode you should have more dynamic capabilities than in 5.1. &nbsp;Two channels are utilizing both capacitors and the transformer alone, not 5. &nbsp;This gives these two channels more dynamic headroom. &nbsp;

Regarding 16 bit vs. &quot;near 24 bit&quot;---aka DVD-A, most people can not tell the difference between the two if they don't know which source is playing. &nbsp;If some of you can hear a HUGE difference between the two, then you must have &quot;golden ears&quot;! &nbsp;You guys would be even more hard-pressed to tell the difference between a multi-channel 16 bit source and a multi-channel &quot;24 bit&quot; one...

Remember, I believe you can adjust the levels on the multi-channel inputs on this unit, so doing this should improve your multi-channel experience even further. &nbsp;

Cheers!</font>

 

[zumbo]

<font color='#000000'>So if you hook-up two sets of fronts, using A &amp; B, would the two sets of speakers share the power? I was under the impression that there was seperate power for speakers A &amp; B.
Do not have mine bi-wired because the speakers are getting enough power already, and because of my assumption. So with that in mind, it seems even though I would not be getting more power to my speakers, there is still no reason to bi-wire? And if so, why did MB Quart go to the trouble of putting four post on the speakers? Oops, i think I can answer the last question. Incase I wanted to bi-amp with an extra amp. AH HA! Oh well, as I said, they are getting plenty of power now.
One other question, if you don't mind. I have my receiver set at 8ohms. My speakers are 4ohm. I have the option to set receiver to 6ohm, but I believe it is best set at 8. I have tested set at 6, and like you said about bi-amping, I can't tell a bit of difference. The only difference I see is that my receiver gets hotter when set at 8. No problems though.

Thanks for the reply!

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[Guest]

<font color='#000000'>Zumbo,
First off, you must realize and identify the differences between bi-amping and bi-wiring. &nbsp;A major and noticeable improvement in sound quaity can be attained via bi-amping. &nbsp;Bi-wiring on the otherhand, has been debated and argued extensively throughout the online forums. &nbsp;Esentially all you are doing by using both main A and B speaker terminals per speaker is to simpify the bi-wire issue of cramming a buch of copper into one set of speaker jacks, banana plugs, etc. &nbsp;Theoretically speaking, bi-wiring adds more copper between amp and speaker, but increasing the gauge of a single wire does the exact same thing. &nbsp;

&quot;So if you hook-up two sets of fronts, using A &amp; B, would the two sets of speakers share the power? I was under the impression that there was seperate power for speakers A &amp; B.&quot;

Yes they share the same power. &nbsp;No, there is only one transformer inside of the unit generating power. &nbsp;If you want to play two seperate speakers at equal volume's &quot;independently&quot; from each other, then you'll have to set your receiver to 5.1 mode and re-assign the two remaining channels to power a Zone 2. &nbsp;So basically, you could have the main A speakers playing in 2-channel stereo concurrently with another seperate pair in 2-channel also. &nbsp;

If you are not noticing any difference between the 8 and 6 ohm switch position it is because you are not &quot;cranking&quot; it loud or long enough for the protection scheme to kick in. &nbsp;If this is the case, the leave it set to 6ohm. &nbsp;If you want increased output above your current listening, then bump it up to 8ohm, but not quite loud enough to push the unit into shut-down mode. &nbsp;Be sure to have plenty of venthilation and air circulation around the unit.</font>

 

[RX-V2400]

<font color='#000000'>ROSS you say &quot;A major and noticeable improvement in sound quaity can be attained via bi-amping.&quot; .... so

Is there more sound quality to be had by adding my old NAD 150wpc stereo amp to the from two main speakers and letting the RXV2400 handle the rest?

I guess you do not amp from the speaker posts like Zumbo says but from the pre out</font>

 

[jeffsg4mac]

<font color='#000000'>RX-V2400: before you do anything more you should go get a sound level meter and get you system calibrated correctly. Then listen, I do not think you will want to do anything else after you have setup and hooked up correctly. You will be happy.</font>

 

[RX-V2400]

<font color='#000000'>The RX-V2400 has a test tone. Is this a substitute for a meter? And if I go to Radio Shack and get a meter should all my 7 speakers be equally loud?

Thanks Ross</font>

 

[Shinerman]

<font color='#000000'>RX-V2400,

The test tone is what the meter reads to set your levels. &nbsp;You still need the meter. &nbsp;Actually, you should probably get a set up disk to help calibrate. &nbsp;The test tones tend to be too short for the meter to accurately measure sometimes. A set up disk will work much better. &nbsp;Sound and Vision and Avia are good ones. You can get them at Amazon. &nbsp;Sound and Vision is very informative and will really show you a lot about proper calibration.

http://www.amazon.com/exec....e&s=dvd

Shinerman</font>

 

[Guest]

<font color='#000000'>Shiner,
Yamaha's internal test tones have always been reviewed by professionals as being very accurate. &nbsp;By using either the built in test tone generator or a seperate disk, I get the same results from my collective listening position(s). &nbsp;Does the internal test tone generator in your unit not output a continuous signal? &nbsp;I'm not quite sure why the disk you are using is SUPERIOR to the unit's, but I do agree about getting a portable spl meter for on-the-fly and routine system checks. &nbsp;

RXV,
Yes, you will need to pre-amp from the rca jacks labeled accordingly and not the binding posts. &nbsp;With bi-wiring, you do not get any more power, change in impedence, greater linear damping factor, or any other non psuedo-scientific advantages over regular wiring. &nbsp;Bi-amping on the other hand, (passive or active) will be dishing out more power, dynamics, etc. for each driver. &nbsp;Basically, if you had a stereo amp driving both the high's and mid's (on one speaker)independently from each other, you can notice significant sonic improvements, if your drivers do require more juice and control. &nbsp;

Cheers!</font>

 

[zumbo]

<font color='#000000'>Thanks Ross

I would like to say when testing between 8ohm &amp; 6ohm, I did get the volume to 0 which I assume is peak watt output, and listen for about 2 to 3 minutes each time. I would like to be using total power, even if there is only a slight difference in the sound output. My amp has not shut down so far!</font>

 

[zumbo]

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