So,upped the budget for mains to $2k, now what? :-) Aperion Verus Grands? Something else?

[Goat1]

Harrison,why don't you give this a good read and learn something.. Page 2..
MartinLogan ElectroMotion ESL Speaker System | Home Theater

 

[Steve81]

Harrison,why don't you give this a good read and learn something.. Page 2..
MartinLogan ElectroMotion ESL Speaker System | Home Theater

Interesting read.

I was more than a bit concerned when it came to setting up the system for movies because I wasn’t sure that the EM C2’s Folded Motion XT tweeters would be able to keep up with the airy nature of the EM-ESLs. The fact that the EM C2 had an obviously different tonal balance when I began setting the speaker levels using the test tones in my Anthem AVM 50v surround processor didn’t fill me with confidence, either....For all their magnificent looks and enthralling sound, the EM ESLs have a trifecta of idiosyncrasies that might make them unsuitable for some home theaters. For example, to sound their best, the dipolar electrostatic panels need to be a relatively large distance away from the front wall...Another aspect of the EM ESLs to consider before you bring a pair home is that electrostatics present a notoriously difficult load for amplifiers, with impedance that may drop down below 4 ohms when the speaker is fed certain frequencies....The third point to be aware of is that, traditionally, electrostatic speakers don’t generate the kind of high sound-pressure levels that a more conventional dynamic loudspeaker of this size might do. While I never found the EM ESLs wanting in this regard in my modest-sized theater, I can definitely say that this isn’t the speaker for you if you have a large room and are looking for concert-level volumes.

Then of course there are the measurements...

 

[Goat1]

People get too hung up on measurements.. Do you measure speakers before you buy them,NO! You listen and what sounds best to you is what you buy.

 

[Steve81]

People get too hung up on measurements.. Do you measure speakers before you buy them,NO! You listen and what sounds best to you is what you buy.

Yes, but according to you, they don't sound particularly good in store either

 

[Goat1]

Yes,according to me,they are known for being a little difficult to set up. Also,when they hooked up to a receiver in the store and you have no idea what the settings are on,that's a problem also. Steve,you must be pretty new at this,otherwise you would already know this.. Once you get the logan's dialed in ,they are incredible. Trust me,I had the Verus Grands and I kept the Logan's for a reason,because they excelled at music and HOME THEATER! Its too bad you guys can't come to my house and hear them properly set up,you would need an astronaut diaper!

 

[Steve81]

Yes,according to me,they are known for being a little difficult to set up. Also,when they hooked up to a receiver in the store and you have no idea what the settings are on,that's a problem also. Steve,you must be pretty new at this,otherwise you would already know this..

I'm not an AH long term veteran by any means, but I'm aware of the difficulties involving the MLs; in fact, I quoted text from the review you linked which detailed those flaws, among others. Of course, if a speaker sounds bad in store and measures poorly, that's not exactly much incentive for me to give it an in home trial, is it?

Once you get the logan's dialed in ,they are incredible. Trust me,I had the Verus Grands and I kept the Logan's for a reason,because they excelled at music and HOME THEATER! Its too bad you guys can't come to my house and hear them properly set up,you would need an astronaut diaper!

I'm glad that you enjoy your speakers. However, you'll have to excuse people if they don't share your enthusiasm.

 

[Goat1]

Every speaker has flaws. You go to the Magnolia center and their rooms have room treatments also. Its never going to sound like in your room. With all the glowing reviews you read about them,IS the incentive to at least take them home,put them in your room,dial them in and see what they can do? If your like the average guy that doesn't understand electrostatic/Magna planar speakers,and you don't like to dial stuff in,you just want to plug them in and go and your not into room correction.. These definitely aren't the speakers for you!

 

[Steve81]

Every speaker has flaws.

True enough, but some are more flawed than others.

You go to the Magnolia center and their rooms have room treatments also. Its never going to sound like in your room.

Again, true enough, though some would contend a great speaker should sound great in a wide variety of rooms and placements, even a room that isn't heavily treated. Of course, if a speaker sounds bad to you in store, do you say "gee, I bet that would sound stunning in my room in spite of the fact that it sounds bad here", or do you move to the next speaker you think is worth auditioning?

With all the glowing reviews you read about them,IS the incentive to at least take them home,put them in your room,dial them in and see what they can do?

Naturally, because only ML speakers receive loads of glowing reviews. The funny part is I wouldn't even call that review you linked glowing...

 

[Goat1]

Giving speakers a 5 out of five stars,build quality and value 4 1/2 stars is not a glowing review? Like I said,your not the type of guy that wants to mess with his speakers and dial them in. You will love the Grand Verus speakers,I had them,I just preferred the Logan's.
Here is some real world reviews for you..

MartinLogan ElectroMotion ESL 8" Floor Speaker Each EMESLD - Best Buy
Amazon.com: MartinLogan ElectroMotion ESL Hybrid Electrostatic Loudspeaker (Black, Each): Electronics

 

[Steve81]

Giving speakers a 5 out of five stars,build quality and value 4 1/2 stars is not a glowing review?

When a statement like "the EM ESLs have a trifecta of idiosyncrasies that might make them unsuitable for some home theaters" is dropped in a review at hometheater.com and it's pointed out that the center speaker isn't a particularly good match for the mains, I'd call that less than glowing; YMMV.

Like I said,your not the type of guy that wants to mess with his speakers and dial them in.

That must be it.

I just preferred the Logan's.

And there's nothing wrong with that. Nor is there anything wrong with someone who doesn't prefer them for their various and sundry faults/idiosyncrasies.

Peace out goat.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I have a friend who used to frequent AH. I asked him why he no longer visits AH. He said that he used to love voicing his opinions, but it always hurts someone's feelings. Some people would agree and some people would get very offended and personal. So it's no longer fun for him.

 

[Harrison20]

Meanwhile, I am listening to some Bonnie Raitt. Sounds good on any speaker!

 

[Steve81]

I have a friend who used to frequent AH. I asked him why he no longer visits AH. He said that he used to love voicing his opinions, but it always hurts someone's feelings. Some people would agree and some people would get very offended and personal. So it's no longer fun for him.

What can I say, I find posts like #41 with a condescending tone particularly irritating, and it's not like I own Aperion speakers. Of course, that the linked review specifically stated several reasons why the ML system wasn't God's gift to home theater was just the feather in the cap. But the system got 5 stars at least.

 

[VicTorious1]

I have a friend who used to frequent AH. I asked him why he no longer visits AH. He said that he used to love voicing his opinions, but it always hurts someone's feelings. Some people would agree and some people would get very offended and personal. So it's no longer fun for him.

What can I say, I find posts like #41 with a condescending tone particularly irritating, and it's not like I own Aperion speakers. Of course, that the linked review specifically stated several reasons why the ML system wasn't God's gift to home theater was just the feather in the cap. But the system got 5 stars at least.

People labor somewhat over their purchasing decision before acquiring big purchases (speakers, electronics, cars, etc.). The higher the price (relative to the consumer's purchasing power), the more likely the buyer is to develop a sense of attachment to the product. Why do people seek out reviews of a product they purchased even after it's possible for them to return the item? Validation. They are seeking reaffirmation that they made a wise purchasing decision or got a good deal.

It's been awhile since I've had a marketing class, but BMW, Audi and Mercedes don't simply advertise to make potential buyers aware of their product offerings. Most buyers have various sources from which they gain information for buying decisions (magazines, Internet and various reviews). A significant reason that these and other car manufactures advertise on TV to the extent they do is to provide reaffirmation to their customers who have also made one of the most important purchases in their life. It creates brand loyalty.

I'll admit it. I get a somewhat excited when I see the rare Audi A5, S5 or RS5 commercial. And in general have a positive reaction to other Audi advertisements as a consumer. My wife the same for MINI. I also like seeing positive reviews of Philharmonic Audio, KEF and RBH/EMP Tek; however, I know if someone else likes neither of these brands, it matters little to my enjoyment. Many cannot separate the two.

 

[brianedm]

So,upped the budget for mains to $2k, now what? Aperion Verus Grands? Some

What can I say, I find posts like #41 with a condescending tone particularly irritating, and it's not like I own Aperion speakers. Of course, that the linked review specifically stated several reasons why the ML system wasn't God's gift to home theater was just the feather in the cap. But the system got 5 stars at least.

I can see where you're coming from. You can always frame something in the positive ex. Have you read through this review? It explains a lot of the strengths of Martin Logan speakers. you can alsi frame sonething in the negative: read this, you may learn something. I doubt it was meant to sound condescending but often times people do it without realizing (and I'm as guilty as anyone).

 

[perpetualglass]

I have a friend who used to frequent AH. I asked him why he no longer visits AH. He said that he used to love voicing his opinions, but it always hurts someone's feelings. Some people would agree and some people would get very offended and personal. So it's no longer fun for him.

Stop being so correct, dammit.

 

[Steve81]

I doubt it was meant to sound condescending but often times people do it without realizing (and I'm as guilty as anyone).

True enough. I just like a guy with 50 posts telling me I must be new at this. Though to be fair, he has been an AH member longer than I've been.

 

[Goat1]

Brian, you are correct. I want trying to come off condescending , the thing is, some people read stuff and take it as gospel. I've had about of speakers in my home, having said that, I picked the loans for their 3 dimensional, accurate, articulate sound. It literally lights up the whole back wall. My only objective was to get Steve to understand that going to best buy isn't going to show these speakers really shine. Also, they absolutely shine in home theater. I'm sure pretty much any decent speaker is going to sound good tho. I thought Steve was buying the verus grands?

 

[Goat1]

Another thing. People can talk about how a speaker sounds,but honestly,even listening to some speakers,it took me a while to pick up with my ears how bi polar def tech's worked,or the dipole nature of the logan's esl. I just didn't hear it right away. It took me some critial listening to figure it out,but once I did ,then I understood what people meant. So,what I'm saying is that Harrison/Steve might not be hearing what I'm talking about and therefore hear nothing special. Like I said,it took bringing them home to really hear what people were talking about. Does that make sense?

 

[FLMike]

Jean, thank you for a chuckle to start my morning . The Aperions arrive tomorrow, so actual listening shall commence.