Room EQ systems for AVP/AVR users thread

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Those are obviously from different systems, at least different AVP/AVRs so it is hard to compare. If we look at the effects or magnitude of the correction, then I would bet ARC and Audyssey were top in that group.

Since there is not a single lab/room that compares all the RC, it's about as good as it gets for today.

What I look at is what the RC does with the Pure Direct FR. Or does it look the same?

 

[PENG]

Since there is not a single lab/room that compares all the RC, it's about as good as it gets for today.

What I look at is what the RC does with the Pure Direct FR. Or does it look the same?

Yes, that's what I meant too when I said Anthem ARC and Audyssey were top. That still assumes all RC systems were set up and used correctly.

 

[PENG]

So the miniDSP mic goes into the USB, HDMI from PC to Pre-pro? Turn on pre-pro and select the Input for the HDMI (like PC). Then how do you set the REW? Input ? Output? What else?

If it is EXTREMELY simple and dummie-proof, I may just do it.

You got it!!

That's all for hook up. After that you open REW and configure the inputs and outputs, just a few steps to follow

Using the UMIK-1 and REW with HDMI output - Windows | MiniDSP

I bet in your room you will find that Audyssey flat won't do much except for the low end say <200 Hz. You probably didn't like it because it clean up(=took out the peaks) the bass and then you get them back and some when you turn DEQ on. That means if you listen to Audyssey flat with DEQ OFF at volume 0 or even -10, you will no longer dislike it.

 

[PENG]

Come on guys, more graphs please, REW, AARC, YPAO, Dirac, Audyssey, anything, let's compare notes!!

With REW, I was able to move the subs around and improve FR to a total of about 10 dB variations peak to peak (with only a coupe of peaks) from 14 to 125 Hz. With 1/6 octave smoothing, it looks almost flat.

 

[rnatalli]

My ARC graphs a few pages back look similarly flat; it hasn't failed me yet.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

My ARC graphs a few pages back look similarly flat; it hasn't failed me yet.

What smoothing did you use?

1/3?

1/6?

Should we use 1/12?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The one common denominator I see with all the RC software (ARC, Audyssey, Trinnov, Lingdorf, Dirac, etc.) is the tapering down or rolling off from 10kHz-20kHz.

They all basically try to flatten out the FR from 20Hz-10kHz and roll off/taper down from 10kHz-20kHz.

 

[PENG]

The one common denominator I see with all the RC software (ARC, Audyssey, Trinnov, Lingdorf, Dirac, etc.) is the tapering down or rolling off from 10kHz-20kHz.

They all basically try to flatten out the FR from 20Hz-10kHz and roll off/taper down from 10kHz-20kHz.

Except as you know Audyssey offers the "flat" option and AARC does not touch the higher frequencies, forgot their cut off point but I am sure it was quite low.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Except as you know Audyssey offers the "flat" option and ARC does not touch the higher frequencies, forgot their cut off point but I am sure it was quite low.

Yeah I love the Audyssey FLAT + DEQ because I really like my 10kHz-20kHz to be really, really FLAT, not tapering down.

I don't think I would like ARC or Trinnov or Dirac or Lyngdorf because they don't seem to have the FLAT 10kHz-20kHz -- they all like to keep the 10kHz-20kHz tapered down.

 

[PENG]

What smoothing did you use?

1/3?

1/6?

Should we use 1/12?

He has the Anthem ARC, and that probably allows him to choose different smoothing but may be not. They look like 1/6 to me but just guessing. I find the S&V/HTM graphs too smooth looking to be even 1/6 so I guess they are 1/3. Soundstage NRC's such as this: SoundStageNetwork.com | SoundStage.com | NRC Measurements: Revel Performa3 F206 Loudspeakers will likely be 1/6.

At the moment I prefer 1/12, as it looks accurate enough without highlighting those sharp peaks/dips that apparently human are not very good at picking up anyway. Why don't we ask Gene for a more authoritative and facts based response?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Here is someone's graph of Audyssey MultEQ from Marantz SR7001 (green) vs Emo-Q1 (blue). It seems Emo-Q also does a good job flattening out the FR, probably on par with the 1st generation Audyssey MultEQ.


Here is EMO-Q2 (black) vs Pure Direct (red). Does it look like EMO-Q2 did much of anything?

 

[rnatalli]

What smoothing did you use?

1/3?

1/6?

Should we use 1/12?

Honestly, I'm not sure. I just hit the print report button and ARC spits out a PDF with those graphs.

 

[rnatalli]

Except as you know Audyssey offers the "flat" option and AARC does not touch the higher frequencies, forgot their cut off point but I am sure it was quite low.

ARC's cut off point is 5khz, but it does allow you set it lower if you wish. Same is true with the LFE as it allows you to set the cutoff point higher at say 30hz instead of 20hz.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

ARC's cut off point is 5khz, but it does allow you set it lower if you wish. Same is true with the LFE as it allows you to set the cutoff point higher at say 30hz instead of 20hz.

Is there a mode that would bypass the roll-off after 10kHz when using ARC?

It seems like all the RC software try to roll-off after 10kHz probably because most "experts" agree it's for the "best". But some of us don't like the roll-off.

 

[rnatalli]

Is there a mode that would bypass the roll-off after 10kHz when using ARC?

It seems like all the RC software try to roll-off after 10kHz probably because most "experts" agree it's for the "best". But some of us don't like the roll-off.

ARC doesn't touch frequencies above 5kHz at all so it comes down to how the room is affecting the sound.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

ARC doesn't touch frequencies above 5kHz at all so it comes down to how the room is affecting the sound.

Doesn't Dolby Leveler do anything to the FR like Dynamic EQ? DEQ boosts the region from 20Hz-200Hz and flattens the 10KHz-20kHz region even when compared to Audyssey Flat.

It seems Audyssey Reference rolls off the 10kHz+ region like all other room correction, or maybe it just doesn't interfere. But Audyssey Flat seems to boosts the 10kHz+ region a little, but still seems slightly rolled off. Then Dynamic EQ seems to really flatten the 10kHz+ region even more. So you have 3 different levels of preferences.

I wondered if ARC's Dolby Leveler is similar to DEQ and boosts the 10kHz+ region also since some people (like me) prefer it.

But if we were to just compare the default or reference FR graphs of ARC vs Audyssey vs Trinnov vs Dirac vs Lyngdorf, it seems like they all do a pretty job flattening the FR between 200Hz-10kHz and rolling off (or not affecting) beyond 10kHz.

 

[PENG]

But if we were to just compare the default or reference FR graphs of ARC vs Audyssey vs Trinnov vs Dirac vs Lyngdorf, it seems like they all do a pretty job flattening the FR between 200Hz-10kHz and rolling off (or not affecting) beyond 10kHz.

As rnatallis said:

ARC doesn't touch frequencies above 5kHz at all so it comes down to how the room is affecting the sound.

So the graphs you referred to simply show you that particular system's in room response. In other words those were the results of the speakers and room acoustic effects, nothing to do with Anthem ARC or Audyssey flat.

Audyssey flat+DEQ will sometime appear to level, or flatten the 10 to 20 kHz range but that's because DEQ is designed to boost the low and the highs, so if the speakers/room combo has a roll off, DEQ would naturally appear to flatten to some degree, whereas Audyssey flat would just try to EQ it, thereby flattening that range somewhat as well, but to a lesser extent. Audyssey can EQ bass to a larger extent because it can fix things in the time domain, but with high frequency phase does not have as much impacts. That's just my 0.0002 cents, time to email Audyssey support.

 

[PENG]

I should also mention that when I plot those graphs placed my mic at ear level and in the center seat position so without the speakers perfectly toe in, not even close in my case, some roll off is kind of expected in the 15 to 20 kHz range that is more directional. I assume Audyssey Flat will try to EQ it back to flat but it probably would not boost much more than a couple to 3 dB, by design but DEQ will give it some extra to compensate human insensitivity to such high frequencies. Again, it is a question for Audyssey to answer, but I suspect the Prof will delegate such questions to his support team. I should probably spend some time going through their Q&A areas.

 

[Alex2507]

ARC doesn't touch frequencies above 5kHz at all so it comes down to how the room is affecting the sound.

It may not touch >5kHz frequencies but they are certainly affected by the relative SPL of <5kHz frequencies. Now that I've heard ARC in action one time, I am an expert. I like the fact that they leave the top end alone because comb filtering makes it all but impossible to correct multiple narrow band peaks and dips that vary wildly every few inches.

This thread is making me feel a little guilty for not bothering to even try using the YPAO that I do have. It's also making me want a used 4311 from Japan in the New England area more than ever. I just want to be a little closer to ADTG's level.

 

[RichB]

What smoothing did you use?

1/3?

1/6?

Should we use 1/12?

I happened to be looking at some waterfall graphs and it looks like Stereophile uses 1/6:

KEF LS50 Anniversary Model loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com

- Rich